On the Ultras is it best to recess the woofer and tweeter on the front baffle? I have a Jasper circle jig for my router so the woofer recess is not a big deal the Vifa with its squared corners would be a little more difficult. I would like to do what's best, so if recessing the drivers is going to yield better sonics then I will give it a try. I also thought about making a front trim ring for the Vifa and recess it into that and then mount that to the front baffle. That way if I mess up the recess I can just fashion a new trim ring rather than scrapping the whole baffle. Any thoughts or help would be appreciated. I have all my parts to build the Ultras. Hope to start after Christmas.
If you can put the Vifa unto a thin sub-baffle that fits into a hole in the main baffle, that's best. A 6-8" hole would be plenty. If it's thin enough, you can rear mount the Vifa to the sub-baffle.
Imagine a 6 or 8" diameter piece of masonite with the Vifa rear mounted on it. Into the main baffle you cut a hole that the masonite baffle will fit into. If you can countersink the masonite into the main baffle, so much the better. Now you have plenty of room at the back of the Vifa for it to breath. You could also make other sub-baffles the same size with other drivers on them to swap out at your leisure.
Imagine a 6 or 8" diameter piece of masonite with the Vifa rear mounted on it. Into the main baffle you cut a hole that the masonite baffle will fit into. If you can countersink the masonite into the main baffle, so much the better. Now you have plenty of room at the back of the Vifa for it to breath. You could also make other sub-baffles the same size with other drivers on them to swap out at your leisure.
Merry Christmas Jan.
Acoustically the crossover is about 700-800Hz. The reason that it does not simulate properly is the open baffle changes the response of the woofer so much. I have not had good success with sims on this speaker.
1/4" at the most. I have used 1/8" which is easy to find at Lowes or Home Depot.
I liked 1/8" because it's thin enough not to be much of a bother to the rear mounted Vifa.
Since the sub-baffle is small, it does not need to be super thick.
You might try offsetting the hole in the main baffle a little away from the woofer, then put the VIfa off-center on the Masonite. That's to keep the rear cavity asymmetrical. Just a tweak, not a must do.
I liked 1/8" because it's thin enough not to be much of a bother to the rear mounted Vifa.
Since the sub-baffle is small, it does not need to be super thick.
You might try offsetting the hole in the main baffle a little away from the woofer, then put the VIfa off-center on the Masonite. That's to keep the rear cavity asymmetrical. Just a tweak, not a must do.
Damn! That's a great suggestion I never thought of! Asymmetrical breathing room in the back in general, I mean.
Hey my friend, happy to see you here.I still have the 18" Goldwood with H frame playing. It will make me double happier to make those idling drivers to work.
How is your bib, still working for you? I'm looking for another pair 6.5" for my box.
Merry Christmas to you all
Albert
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Well I finally finished my Ultra's. So far so good. I'm still tweaking the crossover and playing with room placement. The bass is a little light for my tastes but I'll work it out. The Vifa's do an incredible job with piano passages and both male and female voices. I would like a little more sparkle with hi hats and cymbals but the overall sound is laid back and nice. I'm still adjusting to the physical size of these beasts an my wife will hopefully come around to it some day. Thanks for all the help on this board and for Pano answering all my private messages quickly. What a great community we have here.
Albertli, I'm primarily listening to OB these days. H-frames with something on top. BIBs are in storage without drivers.
Here's how I mounted the Vifa. I used half inch ply so the back of the driver wasn't terribly constricted as it is using three quarter inch. Then I mounted the thinner ply to thicker. Sonically it worked out well. Visually, well, that's another story. I will work on making it prettier eventually.
Here's how I mounted the Vifa. I used half inch ply so the back of the driver wasn't terribly constricted as it is using three quarter inch. Then I mounted the thinner ply to thicker. Sonically it worked out well. Visually, well, that's another story. I will work on making it prettier eventually.
Jeff,
To me, sound good is more important. I of course will try to make it look better if they are keepers. Darker colors always look better to me and it will do magic to hide those bumps and humps when taking pictures. 😀
Albert
Personally, I don't so much see the difficulty in flush mounting the Vifa driver. Well, with a router that is...
The router's base normally is a big flat circle, with a straight edge. What I did was upscale the shape of the Vifa on a piece of paper: First draw the exact shape of the Vifa, decide for the mill in the router and then measure the distance from the round part of the base to the nearest possible edge of the mill. This distance is the one to use to enlarge the drawing of the Vifa. Put the paper on a large sheet of wood, cut exactly according to the enlarged image of the Vifa. The cut-out piece can be thrown away; it's the other piece you want. Put this sheet on top of the baffle, centered on the area where you want the driver to be. Adjust the depth of the router and start milling away all wood inside the wooden template you've just made. The base of the router can nicely follow the inside shape of the template. All that's needed to do later is cut away a tiny little bit in the edges from straight to curved in the baffle recess. This is due the radius of the mill verse the sharp edge of the Vifa. You could even file away a little from the driver; it's only changing from a R1 to R4 or so.
Job done!
Edit: remember during milling not to have the straight edge of the router meet the template;-)
The router's base normally is a big flat circle, with a straight edge. What I did was upscale the shape of the Vifa on a piece of paper: First draw the exact shape of the Vifa, decide for the mill in the router and then measure the distance from the round part of the base to the nearest possible edge of the mill. This distance is the one to use to enlarge the drawing of the Vifa. Put the paper on a large sheet of wood, cut exactly according to the enlarged image of the Vifa. The cut-out piece can be thrown away; it's the other piece you want. Put this sheet on top of the baffle, centered on the area where you want the driver to be. Adjust the depth of the router and start milling away all wood inside the wooden template you've just made. The base of the router can nicely follow the inside shape of the template. All that's needed to do later is cut away a tiny little bit in the edges from straight to curved in the baffle recess. This is due the radius of the mill verse the sharp edge of the Vifa. You could even file away a little from the driver; it's only changing from a R1 to R4 or so.
Job done!
Edit: remember during milling not to have the straight edge of the router meet the template;-)
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Edit:
Just saw that 2 Vifas were already mentioned:
www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/110583-fast-fun-inexpensive-ob-project-123.html#post4386034
Still, I think 4 might be worth trying, there has been successful with the concept in the past...
Original post:
Hmmm, how about a stack of 4 Vifas? Like in the link to the Auras? That should get at least 6dB and not toooo pricey....
I guess you center them at ear level so you still a move your head about 6" up or down without beaming being a big issue?
There a few well regarded speakers that have done this including Aura and those expensive little aluminum British drivers. Forget their name.
Just saw that 2 Vifas were already mentioned:
www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/110583-fast-fun-inexpensive-ob-project-123.html#post4386034
Still, I think 4 might be worth trying, there has been successful with the concept in the past...
Original post:
Hmmm, how about a stack of 4 Vifas? Like in the link to the Auras? That should get at least 6dB and not toooo pricey....
I guess you center them at ear level so you still a move your head about 6" up or down without beaming being a big issue?
There a few well regarded speakers that have done this including Aura and those expensive little aluminum British drivers. Forget their name.
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Well with full range drivers would have comb filtering issues at the higher frequencies in theory but it seems that people have good results often...and at the price 8 drivers are certainly not a financial burden. In fact if you buy 10 at PE you will have 2 for free to use on a different model.
Just Finished my Ultra!
I just finished my Ultra build and they sound good, but I have noticed that the mids and highs sound somewhat "congested". I have high hopes for these and think I just need to do a little tweaking to get them dialed in. I followed the latest information I could find for my build. the baffle has a 4 1/2" cutout for the Tymphany and the driver itself is mounted and recessed in a 1/2" piece of MDF that I have rounded over at the edge. The side wings are 6" at the bottom and curve into 4" at the top about 15" from the top of the baffle. The only physical mod I made was to put a 4" piece of plywood spanning the width of the baffle at the top, connecting the two wings. The crossover was built to spec using a 7.5ohm resister on the mid/tweeter. I used Clarity Caps throughout. The resisters are Parts Express 2% audio grade resisters. Any suggestions would be appreciated to tweak this for better sound. I included a photo.
I just finished my Ultra build and they sound good, but I have noticed that the mids and highs sound somewhat "congested". I have high hopes for these and think I just need to do a little tweaking to get them dialed in. I followed the latest information I could find for my build. the baffle has a 4 1/2" cutout for the Tymphany and the driver itself is mounted and recessed in a 1/2" piece of MDF that I have rounded over at the edge. The side wings are 6" at the bottom and curve into 4" at the top about 15" from the top of the baffle. The only physical mod I made was to put a 4" piece of plywood spanning the width of the baffle at the top, connecting the two wings. The crossover was built to spec using a 7.5ohm resister on the mid/tweeter. I used Clarity Caps throughout. The resisters are Parts Express 2% audio grade resisters. Any suggestions would be appreciated to tweak this for better sound. I included a photo.
Attachments
I used ebony wood veneer on the baffle and painted the wings and trim black and then used a clear finishing wax over the paint. The veneer was sanded to 400 grit and the given 5 coats of General Finishes gloss Arm-R-Seal. I lightly sanded with 400 grit between each coat.
As far as the sound is concerned I only had a couple minutes to test them out and I think it was a bad recording. I let them play all day at low volume while I was at work and then tried a few other CD's in the evening and they sounded much better with no congestion.
A couple of questions though: Would it make much, if any difference if I switched out the Parts Express resisters for Mills? And if i wanted the mids/high to be more forward would I lower the final resister on the tweeter side? I think it called for an 8ohm and I used a 7.5ohm?
As far as the sound is concerned I only had a couple minutes to test them out and I think it was a bad recording. I let them play all day at low volume while I was at work and then tried a few other CD's in the evening and they sounded much better with no congestion.
A couple of questions though: Would it make much, if any difference if I switched out the Parts Express resisters for Mills? And if i wanted the mids/high to be more forward would I lower the final resister on the tweeter side? I think it called for an 8ohm and I used a 7.5ohm?
Brookhart, I swapped out the 8ohm resistor yesterday in the tweeter trap to a 6.5ohm. It brought up the highs and mids but too much for my tastes. The highs became a little harsh for my ears. I'm going to experiment with a 7.0 and 7.5ohm resistor to find the right balance. My room is all concrete block as I live in a hurricane zone so I get strong reflections. Your room shape and construction will have a lot of effect on the final sound. I spent hours moving these things around to find the sweet spot for my room. I think I'm there finally. Those Ebony veeners are beautiful.