I've always wanted to build some of these since I heard John play them at the 2007 LSAF. He was always great to hang around at the shows through the years (RIP). So now that I've finally got off my butt I'm seeing the inductors have gotten stupid $$$ and are hard to find. Any good source for the 20mH and the 2mH inductors that will work well with the regular 12" design?
Happy to hear you're still active -- I remember sending time with you in Jef and Deborah Leonard's room at the last GPAF and the first LSAF get togethers. In any case, the nice inductors that were sold as Erse Super Q coils are now made by US Coils:
https://uscoils.us/super-q-coils/
While not cheap, they haven't gone through the roof, and I think they are now shipping. I also see that they now have a 20mH in 12 gauge, so a nice drop in dcr.
Skip
https://uscoils.us/super-q-coils/
While not cheap, they haven't gone through the roof, and I think they are now shipping. I also see that they now have a 20mH in 12 gauge, so a nice drop in dcr.
Skip
The inductors were always a big part of the cost, but now of course they are scary expensive for a budget project like this. If the Link that Skip Pack posted doesn't bring you any joy, somewhere in this long thread I have posted some Parts Express crossovers that have decent coils for a decent price. Not like the big Erse or Sledgehammer inductors, but they will get you started.
Skip- yep, I ended up with one of Jef’s 12B4 amps, lol. I spent most my time in Jef’s room, John’s room, and Duke Lejune’s room. Good times. I went to the one in Dallas 4-5 times, but it is always at a bad time of year for me.
I’ll check that link out tomorrow. Thanks!
I’ll check that link out tomorrow. Thanks!
There are 6 types of coils listed on uscoils website but there didn't seem to be a 20 mh version. But double check my work as I tend to miss things. No idea if they'd make them up custom.
An Internet search for 20 mh inductors didn't bring up much.
In the mean time the Parts-Express low pass filter that has the 18 mh inductor is #266-446. They are listed as being in stock.
An Internet search for 20 mh inductors didn't bring up much.
In the mean time the Parts-Express low pass filter that has the 18 mh inductor is #266-446. They are listed as being in stock.
That's a great find! I completely missed it. It means all the parts for the build are available again.
It might even be a bit less expensive than the old Erse version that was sold through retailers.
It might even be a bit less expensive than the old Erse version that was sold through retailers.
So the question is 12" or 15"? Hmmm. I have a pretty smallish room 12.5' x 13', filled with guitar stuff on every wall. I have my current speakers about 2' from the back wall and my listening postion is fairly nearfield at probably 6' from the speakers.
When the 12" Manzi's were first built they were in a 12'x12' room. They were placed at a diagonal because of room layout so it wasn't a perfect setup for an OB.
There were two things about the bass. One is that there was plenty of it even from the 12" woofer.
The other thing is that they were the only speakers that were ever in that room that sounded right in the bass. All the others suffered from room modes because of the square dimensions. The OB's likely suffered, too, but it was far less obvious.
Can't say which sounds better as I've not heard the 15" stand mount model, just the 15" floor standing Ultra.
The other thing is if you can get the speakers 3 feet from the wall, even if it's only when critical listening, they'll do a lot better.
There were two things about the bass. One is that there was plenty of it even from the 12" woofer.
The other thing is that they were the only speakers that were ever in that room that sounded right in the bass. All the others suffered from room modes because of the square dimensions. The OB's likely suffered, too, but it was far less obvious.
Can't say which sounds better as I've not heard the 15" stand mount model, just the 15" floor standing Ultra.
The other thing is if you can get the speakers 3 feet from the wall, even if it's only when critical listening, they'll do a lot better.
Here's my recent thread on the subject.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/help-with-room.400989/#post-7394245
Note that the speakers are just the beginning. I'm really wanting to redo what I've got equipment wise as well starting with the Manzanitas and working up.
Nice room.
Are those the ARTarrays from about 15 years ago? There were several at the Dallas show sometime around 2007 or 2008. Thought they sounded good.
Are those the ARTarrays from about 15 years ago? There were several at the Dallas show sometime around 2007 or 2008. Thought they sounded good.
Yep. They're a bit big for this room, but they work with my little 1626 Darling and the ACA amp pretty nicely, so I'm somewhat hesitant to get rid of them. The little Polk Monitor 5B's I bought when I was a freshman in high school in '84 (along with the Carver Receiver 900 in there as well) and am currently upgrading the crossovers and tweeter in those.
Back in the day there were some interesting threads on the voicing of those arrays. Fred was the primary designer but Wayne added his take on some of the crossover work. Not a big huge thread like this one but interesting enough to follow it as they worked out the design.
Fred had a pair at the show one year and they sounded good even though they weren't pricey. That was the point. Another room had a pair they had "upgraded" ... better crossover caps and they had dampened the stamped steel woofer baskets. There might have been some other changes. That 2nd pair, driven by a rebuilt tube amp. sounded better than the stock pair. Don't know how much of that was the difference in Fred's solid state integrated or the tube amp and/or how much of the difference was because of the speaker mods.
Loved that show when it had all the DIY stuff. One room would have something like the ART Arrays then another would have something like John's open baffles. You really never knew what you'd find as you went from room to room.
Fred had a pair at the show one year and they sounded good even though they weren't pricey. That was the point. Another room had a pair they had "upgraded" ... better crossover caps and they had dampened the stamped steel woofer baskets. There might have been some other changes. That 2nd pair, driven by a rebuilt tube amp. sounded better than the stock pair. Don't know how much of that was the difference in Fred's solid state integrated or the tube amp and/or how much of the difference was because of the speaker mods.
Loved that show when it had all the DIY stuff. One room would have something like the ART Arrays then another would have something like John's open baffles. You really never knew what you'd find as you went from room to room.
I don't want to derail this thread any more, so this is the last post I'll try to make that isn't directly related to the building of the speakers. Since I want to build a system around these (either 12" or 15" - undecided), I'm looking at possibly building a Pass F4 (because I've always wanted one (and I have the stuff to build a Hagerman Clarinet or Aikido noval preamp) and/or a Baby Huey EL34. I also have a Sansui Au-719 I'm going to try to recap/refurb this winter if my plans actually come about and a MyRef Freman in the works. Which of those amps do you think might pair better with the Manzanitas? Remember, fairly small room and... I listent o about every type of music from classical to metal.
Well great 😡 The 12" is backordered at PE with a minimum order of 100 pieces👎 So are they no longer being produced I wonder.
I don’t know about the EL34 capabilities, but I would say the F4 (with enough voltage gain from a preamp) would be great for the Manzanitas in your small room. I’ve used a few different Pass Forum amps (F5, Scryer, TDV, even ACAMini) with my Manzanitas and they’ve all worked well. I listen to all kinds of music, too. However I rarely go over 80dB in my room. An updated AU-719 would certainly provide plenty of power and would likely sound great, but that’s not a DIY amp. 
I’d say go with the MyRefFremen while it’s summer and during your F4 build.
I’d say go with the MyRefFremen while it’s summer and during your F4 build.
The BH will put out 30-50W depending on how I build it. Should be plenty. Although, as much as I want to have another tube amp the cost of good power tubes has gotten stupid and will continue to go up. I have boxes of small signal tubes for preamps so I’m thinking the F4 might be the ticket. Provided I can get the woofers 🙄
A quick internet search shows the woofer seems to be in stock in Europe and Australia. Likely way too expensive to ship. Odd that it's available other places.
There's always the 15" woofer version if you have the room for the larger size of the speaker. I've not heard that exact speaker but John used the 15 in a lot of his designs including a bunch of his commercial offerings. He always made them sound good.
As for amps, the Ultras in my place were very briefly powered by a Firstwatt F5 clone that a friend built and lent me for a short period. It did very well and there wasn't any hint of too little power. It was in a fairly small room and not very loud (I'm not into loud) but quite nice. Easily a step or two up from the old 40 watt NAD amp that's usually hooked up to them. Might not work if you're into raucous but for genres like jazz at reasonable levels it was excellent.
Currently have them hooked to a cheap TPA3255 amp that's got some promise. Unfortunately it's air conditioning weather here so there's no way to hear nuance from a stereo but it'll be a fun listen as we get to Fall. More on that combo in a few months.
There's always the 15" woofer version if you have the room for the larger size of the speaker. I've not heard that exact speaker but John used the 15 in a lot of his designs including a bunch of his commercial offerings. He always made them sound good.
As for amps, the Ultras in my place were very briefly powered by a Firstwatt F5 clone that a friend built and lent me for a short period. It did very well and there wasn't any hint of too little power. It was in a fairly small room and not very loud (I'm not into loud) but quite nice. Easily a step or two up from the old 40 watt NAD amp that's usually hooked up to them. Might not work if you're into raucous but for genres like jazz at reasonable levels it was excellent.
Currently have them hooked to a cheap TPA3255 amp that's got some promise. Unfortunately it's air conditioning weather here so there's no way to hear nuance from a stereo but it'll be a fun listen as we get to Fall. More on that combo in a few months.