A good plinth, a decent arm, and that's about it. Servicing the Lencos should be a first priority. I wish I had one.No "butchering" need occur to the Lencos. And save every single thing you remove from the Lenco. If wanting something else consider a Dual or whatever you can get near you at a reasonable price be it DD, idler, rim or belt. Everything can be made better without much money spent, and a belt drive can be converted into an idler easily enough.
I would imagine a few hundred $$$s, should result in something very listenable (if starting with a used TT, more if starting fresh with all new parts), It all depends on far you want to go.
Hi Stew ,
A question on idler tables , why are they being sought after so much of late , i did own a few( dual,garrard) many moons ago and eventuly made the switch to belt and direct drive tables finding them not only sonically better but less problematic than the idlers..
What did i miss ...?
No problem Squiffything "
"I hope the science of materials and how they work together will be dealt with, how a box type plinth compares to a solid or layered plinth, if aluminium sandwiched between slate with or without an absorption between would cause ringing or would deaden the sound."
You hit the nail on the head, probably not appropriate as the guest of this thread as it is more centered around suspended tables.
Bill
"I hope the science of materials and how they work together will be dealt with, how a box type plinth compares to a solid or layered plinth, if aluminium sandwiched between slate with or without an absorption between would cause ringing or would deaden the sound."
You hit the nail on the head, probably not appropriate as the guest of this thread as it is more centered around suspended tables.
Bill
I wouldn't say not appropriate, I'm thinking about possibly suspending the BSR within its plinth somehow maybe using a spring setup but not sure if its the best way or what advantages it would have (if any) over a rigid fixed setup.
The Saturn has a floating deck from its three fixed leg supports although in this instance the arm is coupled to the floating platform along with the bearing. It's biggest advantage i guess is to isolate it from outside vibrations.
Your suggestion would be to have the three layers separated rather than sandwiched together?
We are ALL doing Or rather approaching this project from a different POV because we ALL have different toys to play with,& even playgrounds to play in, i.e. sheds / workshops.
As it now happens the weather in England is going to affect my project, as I'm intending to use Resin which will be affected by the Temperature / Moisture it needs for curing.
Like Squiffy, when It's cold & wet for weeks on end Playing down in the garden shed (no electric power) is no fun at all.
As it now happens the weather in England is going to affect my project, as I'm intending to use Resin which will be affected by the Temperature / Moisture it needs for curing.
Like Squiffy, when It's cold & wet for weeks on end Playing down in the garden shed (no electric power) is no fun at all.
Ps,
Just got the LP12 PSU back, It's been transformed from a blown up Valhalla into an Armageddon clone & it is soooo much better.
http://i.imgur.com/swsGTaY.jpg
Just got the LP12 PSU back, It's been transformed from a blown up Valhalla into an Armageddon clone & it is soooo much better.
http://i.imgur.com/swsGTaY.jpg
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Does it smell when you work with the resin Jay? If not put a towel on the coffee table (if you want to keep an eye on the footie/rugby) or the dining table (tell the kids they can eat in the front room) and work in the comfort of the house 😀 the wife won't really mind and remember whatever you use to heat up the resin will help with keeping the heating bills down. No need to thank me for these useful tips its all part of the service.
I should think about writing a book with these practical gems 😉
have any of you guys taken a look at the Well Tempered bearing by Bill Firebaugh? Low point contact and the belt is setup to hold the bearing in place super simple to make cannot wobble like a conventional bearing assembly due to this bias. That the reason why I believe rim drives sound so goo they provide a solid bias to the bearing so that it cannot wobble. Check out this brilliant design. You can also search to see how very highly Bill's designs are. Best regards Moray James.
https://www.google.com/patents/US47...a=X&ei=GWKSUsyMMom9qwGUiIC4Bg&ved=0CD4Q6AEwAQ
https://www.google.com/patents/US47...a=X&ei=GWKSUsyMMom9qwGUiIC4Bg&ved=0CD4Q6AEwAQ
Squiffy,
you obiusly have never used resin before, it stinks, it's highly hydroscopic, it also hates cold damp wether. The user needs lots of fresh air or one can be overcome by its fumes if not it's Oder.
But when you can get it to work for you, the results can be exstridinary.
you obiusly have never used resin before, it stinks, it's highly hydroscopic, it also hates cold damp wether. The user needs lots of fresh air or one can be overcome by its fumes if not it's Oder.
But when you can get it to work for you, the results can be exstridinary.
Bill, perhaps a little too soon for a complete tt...
Bill: As Squiffy answered, the idea is to run a specific design or thoughts past the thread and provide input or any help that I can. My specific project will be a Dual 1214, but to start I will need to use the Garrard Lab60 as an example, as there are too many pieces that need to replaced (well actually it appears the complete pitch adjustment and idler wheel assembly, and I should have one on the way to me shortly).
If you prefer to start from scratch I also have specific thoughts about new scratch built turntables. The first step here is to start with some information that all might find useful and instructive. For example, how to make a custom plinth for your (existing) tt from scratch. This includes developing your own templates for a multi-layer baltic birch plywood , and learning to develop a specific close fitting plinth using very basic and easy techniques (spray foam and foam board to model the occupied space of the turntable parts and mechanisms, particularly if using or re-plinthing a changer as the basis of your project).
Bill: Eventually this thread will be a more complete tt, based on some of my thoughts, and hopefully the newly discovered experiences of those who have built or re-plinthed an existing tt. But feel free to PM me, and I will assist any way I can. If you email me I will answer direct to your email address. If need be a new thread could be started in parallel.
Bill: As Squiffy answered, the idea is to run a specific design or thoughts past the thread and provide input or any help that I can. My specific project will be a Dual 1214, but to start I will need to use the Garrard Lab60 as an example, as there are too many pieces that need to replaced (well actually it appears the complete pitch adjustment and idler wheel assembly, and I should have one on the way to me shortly).
If you prefer to start from scratch I also have specific thoughts about new scratch built turntables. The first step here is to start with some information that all might find useful and instructive. For example, how to make a custom plinth for your (existing) tt from scratch. This includes developing your own templates for a multi-layer baltic birch plywood , and learning to develop a specific close fitting plinth using very basic and easy techniques (spray foam and foam board to model the occupied space of the turntable parts and mechanisms, particularly if using or re-plinthing a changer as the basis of your project).
Bill: Eventually this thread will be a more complete tt, based on some of my thoughts, and hopefully the newly discovered experiences of those who have built or re-plinthed an existing tt. But feel free to PM me, and I will assist any way I can. If you email me I will answer direct to your email address. If need be a new thread could be started in parallel.
Hi Morray, I've been looking at the threads and am very tempted to try one of these on the BSR table alongside my 2nd attempt of the unipivot. IF, and obviously its a big if, it works out then I may end up having a nice sounding turntable/twin tonearm setup. Couple this with a pair of home made folded horns and who knows I may just move into the shed 🙂
It was 45 degrees C in my tin shed a few days ago (37C ambient)...we have the opposite problem... Not even summer yet. Might be a warm one this year.
Hi,
Yes and I will standby it. You can't have a generic thread that
will cover all turntable design issues, its just very naive IMO.
However there is not much disagreement as to how to
optimise the sort of turntables being alluded to, and I
find the context of this thread to be very pretentious.
rgds,sreten.
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I'm not having a go but i just don't get this kind of reply sretren
I see a lot of threads (and follow quite a few) where I wonder if it's going anywhere useful. Sometimes some good does come of them but it might take a while. If I don't like, agree or see any real point to what I am reading, I usually either don't bother commenting or I don't bother reading any further.
People like to play around with audio equipment, I certainly do, so I tend not to rain on their parade if I don't see much point or evidence of progress.
It's just a hobby at the end of the day. Have fun with it folks and good luck to you.
I see a lot of threads (and follow quite a few) where I wonder if it's going anywhere useful. Sometimes some good does come of them but it might take a while. If I don't like, agree or see any real point to what I am reading, I usually either don't bother commenting or I don't bother reading any further.
People like to play around with audio equipment, I certainly do, so I tend not to rain on their parade if I don't see much point or evidence of progress.
It's just a hobby at the end of the day. Have fun with it folks and good luck to you.
Howdy Sreten,
I quite like these 'throw everything out there' threads which is why I made supportive noises earlier on. I won't even be building one unless I run into a half decent idler drive by accident. But I do like the brainstorming that comes from these threads, and no doubt if I do see an idler in the local Good Samaritans I will be inspired to grab it.
These threads don't always have to result in a blueprint for a SOTA result at the end; it's all about inspiration, pointers to research and other projects already done, ideas on construction, opinions on sources for various things such as the base turntable, etc. etc. Then the contributors go off on their own tangent with their own ideas, for a bit of fun and hopefully a decent, to them, turntable result. This clearly differs for each individual, according to their current setup and experience.
That's what I reckon, and I'm sticking to it. 😉
Stuey
A few questions answered (I hope).
a.wayne: I think most of us missed something. We blamed the poor sound from many of these tables on the drive type. There are many positives that have been expounded over the years regarding both idlers (including rime drives) and DD types. As I said, I am not attempting to belittle any drive type as there are good, well implemented types of each (including belt drives as well). Proponents of the idler types state that there is some sort of "sonic purity" to the tone of the sounds and soundstaging coming from them. I assume here, that of course a good tonearm and suitable cartridge is being used. I believe Ken Kessler of HiFi News & Record Reviews adopted a TD124 turntable way ahead of the curve and praised (praises) it for the drive and control that can be had from overhauled and "improved" classic idler drive turntables. Of course he adopted the TD124 one of the best of its type, but really a "hybrid" consisting of a belt driven idler wheel. Garrards have their fans too. Both were on the expensive side and still are, but there are plenty of Duals, McDonald-BSR, and countless others that are much less expensive in today's used market.
Materials science can be a daunting subject in its own right. There are proven examples of almost any material being used a a tt plinth, but was the implementation a success? As far as modifying an existing suspended tt, seek out an explanation of George Merrill's mods to the AR turntables (too many sources to point you to, just do a search using whatever you prefer as a search engine). They are well documented and apparently very effective. Another is the Chadwick (as done by Steven Chadwick Grant) mods (check out Steve Clarke's informative website the analog dept , as well as Vinyl Nirvana). I have spent time reading the analog dept and Vinyl Nirvana. I was the aa contributor "justaguy" and typed out the list of mods done to a Thorens TD125 as reviewed by Steven Stone. I gave up on aa some time ago, and someone else has used the username "justaguy" since. I haven't even looked at aa for something like the last 7 or 8 years, so if any have issue with any statements or posts by the new "justaguy" please don't take them up with me.
I suggest that we all start with a relatively easy to make plinth that has been used with idlers, DDs, and more traditional belt drives with good results. Thus, I'll concentrate on Baltic Birch plywood as it is almost universally available around the globe and has had well documented examples out there, from Lenco builds to the Kaneta DD and Rega re-plinths. If Baltic Birch plywood is not available locally, you can use what is sometimes called "apple" plywood, else any other void-less marine grade plywood (or non-marine equivalents that guarantee the same minor voids as Baltic Birch, which is highly standardized and highly specified).
An interesting thing to consider is rather than constructing plinths, make yourself an isolation shelf from whatever material you choose. This way the sonics can be subjectively tested without a lot of time being spent. If the results sound good, then you may have a candidate for a plinth material, regardless of any possible combinations being considered.
Regarding in-depth discussions about other materials and possible combinations, I agree that there are some interesting possibilities out there, but here's the rub.
As sreten correctly pointed out, unless some means of scientifically testing the various combinations is available, cooking up a recipe for a plinth can lead to results that may be less than expected or desired (or even detrimental) to the sound of the project tt. Without some means to correlate the results of various different materials, it is a moot point to blindly construct whatever plinth, for whatever turntable, with whatever unknown results. This does discount anecdotal and subjective reviews and reports of the resultant sound improvements (or lack there of), but I do agree that some means of quantitative testing should occur. I do not discount the anecdotal and subjective testing, but for some going to the expense of some non-trivial amounts of $$$ might simply be foolish. I am not trying to coerce any into spending money they do not have or that they can not afford to lose on any "experiments". I will stick to a few well known and well accepted materials for plinth construction.
The obvious first choice is Baltic Birch as state above. Slate, other rock or "rock-like" (as in man made solid surface materials such as DuPont Corian, or even concrete, etc) might be suitable materials. There have been many re-plinths done for Garrard, Thorens and several other tts using some of these. They are less easily worked and can cost a considerable amount of $$$ as well or require a considerable investment in time or both. Of combinations of materials, I'll stick to a sandwich of materials that might be non-typical, but should provide some insight into resonance control. Once the first two plinths are discussed, the third option will be brought up in detail.
Jay, great to hear your news, now if we can just convert it to idler drive 😉 (easier than you think).
Moray: thanks for dropping by. This thread, at this time is limited to plinths and plinth materials. I know of your fondness for the elegantly simple, yet apparently excellent sounding WTL bearing. A bearing discussion should occur, I'm just thinking it is a little premature. All of us here have plinths (or isolation shelves) and ideas to formulate and construct first. Once done we can discuss improved bearings, etc. But we have to start somewhere.
All: Well I for one need to get busy so that this thread isn't filled with "what if..." statements and a torrent of suggestions with nothing actually getting done. Oh for those interested skeletal wooden plinths could also be a great introduction to plinthmaking.
a.wayne: I think most of us missed something. We blamed the poor sound from many of these tables on the drive type. There are many positives that have been expounded over the years regarding both idlers (including rime drives) and DD types. As I said, I am not attempting to belittle any drive type as there are good, well implemented types of each (including belt drives as well). Proponents of the idler types state that there is some sort of "sonic purity" to the tone of the sounds and soundstaging coming from them. I assume here, that of course a good tonearm and suitable cartridge is being used. I believe Ken Kessler of HiFi News & Record Reviews adopted a TD124 turntable way ahead of the curve and praised (praises) it for the drive and control that can be had from overhauled and "improved" classic idler drive turntables. Of course he adopted the TD124 one of the best of its type, but really a "hybrid" consisting of a belt driven idler wheel. Garrards have their fans too. Both were on the expensive side and still are, but there are plenty of Duals, McDonald-BSR, and countless others that are much less expensive in today's used market.
Materials science can be a daunting subject in its own right. There are proven examples of almost any material being used a a tt plinth, but was the implementation a success? As far as modifying an existing suspended tt, seek out an explanation of George Merrill's mods to the AR turntables (too many sources to point you to, just do a search using whatever you prefer as a search engine). They are well documented and apparently very effective. Another is the Chadwick (as done by Steven Chadwick Grant) mods (check out Steve Clarke's informative website the analog dept , as well as Vinyl Nirvana). I have spent time reading the analog dept and Vinyl Nirvana. I was the aa contributor "justaguy" and typed out the list of mods done to a Thorens TD125 as reviewed by Steven Stone. I gave up on aa some time ago, and someone else has used the username "justaguy" since. I haven't even looked at aa for something like the last 7 or 8 years, so if any have issue with any statements or posts by the new "justaguy" please don't take them up with me.
I suggest that we all start with a relatively easy to make plinth that has been used with idlers, DDs, and more traditional belt drives with good results. Thus, I'll concentrate on Baltic Birch plywood as it is almost universally available around the globe and has had well documented examples out there, from Lenco builds to the Kaneta DD and Rega re-plinths. If Baltic Birch plywood is not available locally, you can use what is sometimes called "apple" plywood, else any other void-less marine grade plywood (or non-marine equivalents that guarantee the same minor voids as Baltic Birch, which is highly standardized and highly specified).
An interesting thing to consider is rather than constructing plinths, make yourself an isolation shelf from whatever material you choose. This way the sonics can be subjectively tested without a lot of time being spent. If the results sound good, then you may have a candidate for a plinth material, regardless of any possible combinations being considered.
Regarding in-depth discussions about other materials and possible combinations, I agree that there are some interesting possibilities out there, but here's the rub.
As sreten correctly pointed out, unless some means of scientifically testing the various combinations is available, cooking up a recipe for a plinth can lead to results that may be less than expected or desired (or even detrimental) to the sound of the project tt. Without some means to correlate the results of various different materials, it is a moot point to blindly construct whatever plinth, for whatever turntable, with whatever unknown results. This does discount anecdotal and subjective reviews and reports of the resultant sound improvements (or lack there of), but I do agree that some means of quantitative testing should occur. I do not discount the anecdotal and subjective testing, but for some going to the expense of some non-trivial amounts of $$$ might simply be foolish. I am not trying to coerce any into spending money they do not have or that they can not afford to lose on any "experiments". I will stick to a few well known and well accepted materials for plinth construction.
The obvious first choice is Baltic Birch as state above. Slate, other rock or "rock-like" (as in man made solid surface materials such as DuPont Corian, or even concrete, etc) might be suitable materials. There have been many re-plinths done for Garrard, Thorens and several other tts using some of these. They are less easily worked and can cost a considerable amount of $$$ as well or require a considerable investment in time or both. Of combinations of materials, I'll stick to a sandwich of materials that might be non-typical, but should provide some insight into resonance control. Once the first two plinths are discussed, the third option will be brought up in detail.
Jay, great to hear your news, now if we can just convert it to idler drive 😉 (easier than you think).
Moray: thanks for dropping by. This thread, at this time is limited to plinths and plinth materials. I know of your fondness for the elegantly simple, yet apparently excellent sounding WTL bearing. A bearing discussion should occur, I'm just thinking it is a little premature. All of us here have plinths (or isolation shelves) and ideas to formulate and construct first. Once done we can discuss improved bearings, etc. But we have to start somewhere.
All: Well I for one need to get busy so that this thread isn't filled with "what if..." statements and a torrent of suggestions with nothing actually getting done. Oh for those interested skeletal wooden plinths could also be a great introduction to plinthmaking.
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I guess that can be part of the fun, and maybe all we need to do is go find us a suspended belt driven table such as a Thorens TD150 or TD16o and mod it as per the Chadwick mods. Maybe we would all be happy. But even a TD150 is commanding ridiculously high prices (at least in North America).
Here I think most will agree, this is a hobby and as such folks are willing to try to things that they may not elsewhere. This is supposed to be fun. As pointed out here:
I completely agree.
all: I did PM sreten and firstly apologized if I somehow offended him, which is and never shall be my intent. I do understand his point of view and agree with much of it. But there is nothing thus far that any should find offensive, nor "voodoo" in any way. I suggested he could email me directly should he want to bring up any points with me (rather than have the thread hung up with reams of digital text), and thanked him for the balance he was (is?) trying (?) to interject.
The thread was and is just intended to open some folks' eyes to the potential of some "less desirable" tts out there. As the pool of possible used turntables continues to dwindle the prices of remaining ones will increase to a level where it does not make sense to spend the money on an old turntable unless there is a considerable increase in performance. Else there are quite good sounding and relatively inexpensive turntables out there that can be had for not a lot of money (such as the well reviewed Rega RP1).
I think I fit into a perplexing classification: I have been scientifically trained, but I do not discount subjective reviews or comments. As I do not have the equipment or facilities available to me, I have not tried to document objective testing of anything audio related. If I had suitable equipment I would. But I'd add the subjective impressions as well.
'nuff said. I gotta get busy and build something.
Hi Stew, I had been watching a TD150 just down the road from me on the Bay which finished last night at £48! Why was I not watching at the end 
Over here they still go for low money so will be keeping an eye out for one.
By the way has anyone got any good solutions for cleaning rock hard glue from a metal platter? Stanley knife blade will chip away the top but I want it looking perfect. That said it may well have a top platter put on it to bring it up to size so maybe the look will not be critical although I know it will be grubby underneath and it will bug me 😡.
Over here they still go for low money so will be keeping an eye out for one.
By the way has anyone got any good solutions for cleaning rock hard glue from a metal platter? Stanley knife blade will chip away the top but I want it looking perfect. That said it may well have a top platter put on it to bring it up to size so maybe the look will not be critical although I know it will be grubby underneath and it will bug me 😡.
My plinth ideas
OK I've been having a think and have some ideas in my head of how I would like my little project to end up.
First idea is a skeletal based plinth something like this,
OK its a Garrard but the style and colouring is what I'm thinking.
Alternatively something like this one,
I like the way the deck drops into the plinth I have envisaged this as a sprung deck. Thoughts anyone?
OK I've been having a think and have some ideas in my head of how I would like my little project to end up.
First idea is a skeletal based plinth something like this,
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
OK its a Garrard but the style and colouring is what I'm thinking.
Alternatively something like this one,
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I like the way the deck drops into the plinth I have envisaged this as a sprung deck. Thoughts anyone?
first attempt at a mold...
... was started this morning. The purpose is to get a fairly quickly made mould that will allow me to create a cut out template for Baltic Birch. If I can get decent resolution or can create a contour map of it, I will try to model it in sketchup or similar, Then make section slices and clean them up. If I can get a good mould out of this, I'll finish it off with finishing putty (once dry) and attempt to make a male mould from the female I'm working on. Then I can use it as a starting point to model the turntable's underside accurately.
If a satisfactory sketchup drawing can be made accurately, I will then save it and send both the male mould and my sketchup of it to a fellow who can CNC machine it from a thick Baltic Birch slab that I will create. This should be suitable for the 12XX idlers from about 1967-74, but doesn't include any of the non-metal top plate models. If my attempts are what I consider to be good, I will provide them to any that ask.
Squiffy and Arch: I had aTD146 or TD166 for a very short time prior to the Oracle. I should have probably kept it, or upgraded to a better Thorens instead of the Oracle Alex that I ended up buying. I have often wanted a TD160 "Super" or a build up of a TD160 to the Super spec. Add the Chadwick mods and a great tonearm (or even merely a good one), and I think a killer table result.
For reference I suppose I should list the turntables that I have owned or have had fairly "intimate relationships" with.
Turntables I own or have owned:
Friend's turntables that I have spent some time with:
Given what I know now, I would have opted for a Systemdek with a better tonearm rather than the Profile often installed on these tts, kept the Heybrook, upgraded the Thorens, or sought out a killer idler table. I haven't made too many mistakes over the years so I'm OK with the turntables that I have owned.
Squiffy: The "skeletal one appears to be a plinth constructed by the late Terry Cain of Cain&Cain Loudspeakers. The second looks like an Albert Porter creation, which is absolutely stunning, a Technics SP10. AFAIK (which is not much) the SP series of Technics tables were motor units with no suspension. Technics had a couple of factory plinth options, but most were sold without the plinth, and sometimes without the tonearm. A Massive plinth was suggested by Technics. Here is a link to a page that describes some of the "pros and cons" of light vs. massive plinths.
... was started this morning. The purpose is to get a fairly quickly made mould that will allow me to create a cut out template for Baltic Birch. If I can get decent resolution or can create a contour map of it, I will try to model it in sketchup or similar, Then make section slices and clean them up. If I can get a good mould out of this, I'll finish it off with finishing putty (once dry) and attempt to make a male mould from the female I'm working on. Then I can use it as a starting point to model the turntable's underside accurately.
If a satisfactory sketchup drawing can be made accurately, I will then save it and send both the male mould and my sketchup of it to a fellow who can CNC machine it from a thick Baltic Birch slab that I will create. This should be suitable for the 12XX idlers from about 1967-74, but doesn't include any of the non-metal top plate models. If my attempts are what I consider to be good, I will provide them to any that ask.
Squiffy and Arch: I had aTD146 or TD166 for a very short time prior to the Oracle. I should have probably kept it, or upgraded to a better Thorens instead of the Oracle Alex that I ended up buying. I have often wanted a TD160 "Super" or a build up of a TD160 to the Super spec. Add the Chadwick mods and a great tonearm (or even merely a good one), and I think a killer table result.
For reference I suppose I should list the turntables that I have owned or have had fairly "intimate relationships" with.
Turntables I own or have owned:
- Akai AP306(?), Goldring G820
- Thorens TD166 (I think), Nagaoka MP11
- Oracle Alex Mk II/Sumiko MMT/Grace 9E (had some company over and their kid crushed the F9E when no one was looking and the "friends" refused to replace it)
*upgraded the MMT to a SME 3009 and cartridge to a Grado Sig8*added SME309./Grado to the Oracle - Sugden BD-1/nanook 219/Grado Sig8
- Yamaha PF1000/Grado "Blue"
- Heybrook TT2/Alphason Xeon"MCS" /Grado Sig8
- several "junkers and clunkers" I've collected
*Garrard Zero SB1000, Garrard Lab60, Garrard Lab80, and too many non-descript POS
Friend's turntables that I have spent some time with:
- Ariston RD11/MMT/Koetsu "Black"
- Oracle Alex MkII/ET air bearing tonearm/Monster alpha
Given what I know now, I would have opted for a Systemdek with a better tonearm rather than the Profile often installed on these tts, kept the Heybrook, upgraded the Thorens, or sought out a killer idler table. I haven't made too many mistakes over the years so I'm OK with the turntables that I have owned.
Squiffy: The "skeletal one appears to be a plinth constructed by the late Terry Cain of Cain&Cain Loudspeakers. The second looks like an Albert Porter creation, which is absolutely stunning, a Technics SP10. AFAIK (which is not much) the SP series of Technics tables were motor units with no suspension. Technics had a couple of factory plinth options, but most were sold without the plinth, and sometimes without the tonearm. A Massive plinth was suggested by Technics. Here is a link to a page that describes some of the "pros and cons" of light vs. massive plinths.
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