Hi All,
After a long time sitting alternating them, here's my attempt to put together my thoughts about the Burson V6 CLASSIC and VIVID Opamps in the Whammy headphone Amp.
Per my prior posts, I decided to build the balanced version of the Whammy.
The balanced option was fun, and the Whammy sits as an alternate output for my balanced Stereo system.
Based on reviews, I initially bought the Burson dual V6 CLASSIC OpAmps for my Whammy. Burson later donated the V6s dual VIVIDs at my request.
I was allowed to keep them in exchange for my review but did not influence my opinions.
Thanks, Carlos.
A BAT VK50se Preamp feeds the Whammy and outputs its signal to HIFIMAN HE6Se V2 planar headphones.
I have made some earlier comments about the setup in the thread.
My listening is a bit eclectic, but the main evaluation tracks to were:
Anoushka Shankar – Easy
Classic: Rich and Bloomy, like being washed over with sound
Vivid: Clear rich delineation and articulation of vocals and instruments, allowing you to dive in better
Ali Farka Toure – Kenouna
Classic: A general musical presentation, instruments were a little vague but still clear and more present.
Vivid: The voice is slightly less forward, but instruments, especially bass, are very redolent.
Berlioz – Symphonie Fantastique – op.14 - 2. un bal (valse: allegro non troppo)
Classic: Encouraged the flow of the music
Vivid: More crisp body to the instruments encouraging more analysis
Eek-A-Mouse – Wa-Do-Dem
Classics: Full and rich
Vivid: Encouraged turning volume up, made you want to hear more.
This Is The Kit–Hotter Colder
Classic: Sounded louder overall
Vivid: More of a clear and smooth presentation – Silky
The Durutti Column – Maggie
Classic: A more gently presentation, but more full
Vivid: Easier to distinguish the words of the vocal, Silky again
Massive Attack – Inertia Creeps
Classic: Busy and fun presentation
Vivid: Bass stops on a dime, more controlled.
The Smashing Pumpkins – Hummer
Classic: Captures the intensity of the central part of the song better.
Vivid: A little more strident with the electric guitar but more realistic with the Bass solos
Reading my notes, it might seem that the Classic comes out on top over the Vivid, but the truth is that I would be happy with either OpAmp, and it has been hard to judge which is better. The truth is that they both offer different views on the audio experience. The Classic is fuller on encouraging you to sit back and have fun. On the other hand, the Vivid enables you to get lost in what I call music's transcendent qualities.
Of course, your mileage may vary, but I have retained the VIVIDs in my Whammy for now. As a Tube Preamp feeds this, it may provide a more balanced experience. The CLASSIC may be more suited as a desktop preamp fed directly by a DAC. As the whim takes me, I will enjoy swapping between the VIVID and the CLASSICS.
Thanks to BURSON and cheers.
After a long time sitting alternating them, here's my attempt to put together my thoughts about the Burson V6 CLASSIC and VIVID Opamps in the Whammy headphone Amp.
Per my prior posts, I decided to build the balanced version of the Whammy.
The balanced option was fun, and the Whammy sits as an alternate output for my balanced Stereo system.
Based on reviews, I initially bought the Burson dual V6 CLASSIC OpAmps for my Whammy. Burson later donated the V6s dual VIVIDs at my request.
I was allowed to keep them in exchange for my review but did not influence my opinions.
Thanks, Carlos.
A BAT VK50se Preamp feeds the Whammy and outputs its signal to HIFIMAN HE6Se V2 planar headphones.
I have made some earlier comments about the setup in the thread.
My listening is a bit eclectic, but the main evaluation tracks to were:
Anoushka Shankar – Easy
Classic: Rich and Bloomy, like being washed over with sound
Vivid: Clear rich delineation and articulation of vocals and instruments, allowing you to dive in better
Ali Farka Toure – Kenouna
Classic: A general musical presentation, instruments were a little vague but still clear and more present.
Vivid: The voice is slightly less forward, but instruments, especially bass, are very redolent.
Berlioz – Symphonie Fantastique – op.14 - 2. un bal (valse: allegro non troppo)
Classic: Encouraged the flow of the music
Vivid: More crisp body to the instruments encouraging more analysis
Eek-A-Mouse – Wa-Do-Dem
Classics: Full and rich
Vivid: Encouraged turning volume up, made you want to hear more.
This Is The Kit–Hotter Colder
Classic: Sounded louder overall
Vivid: More of a clear and smooth presentation – Silky
The Durutti Column – Maggie
Classic: A more gently presentation, but more full
Vivid: Easier to distinguish the words of the vocal, Silky again
Massive Attack – Inertia Creeps
Classic: Busy and fun presentation
Vivid: Bass stops on a dime, more controlled.
The Smashing Pumpkins – Hummer
Classic: Captures the intensity of the central part of the song better.
Vivid: A little more strident with the electric guitar but more realistic with the Bass solos
Reading my notes, it might seem that the Classic comes out on top over the Vivid, but the truth is that I would be happy with either OpAmp, and it has been hard to judge which is better. The truth is that they both offer different views on the audio experience. The Classic is fuller on encouraging you to sit back and have fun. On the other hand, the Vivid enables you to get lost in what I call music's transcendent qualities.
Of course, your mileage may vary, but I have retained the VIVIDs in my Whammy for now. As a Tube Preamp feeds this, it may provide a more balanced experience. The CLASSIC may be more suited as a desktop preamp fed directly by a DAC. As the whim takes me, I will enjoy swapping between the VIVID and the CLASSICS.
Thanks to BURSON and cheers.
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I changed the power supply to the naked regulator option for 15vdc to remain in safe limits for different OPAmps.
A couple of other serious hi-fi friends came over for blind AB testing of op amps with both the HD650 and Audeze LCD-4z.
The vote was universal everyone liked the BurrBrown OPA2134PA best for both headphones. The BurrBrown had much better base extension and overall authority. Second place was the 2604, third NTE891M from what I had on hand.
Little late to the show but just discovered the whammy HPA. I'm located in germany and would like to build one of these. Is one of you guys located in europe / germany, has some PCB's left and would be interested in selling one?
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Thanks mate! I just ordered the kit, let's see how it goes ;-). Sorry for interrupting the thread, just go ahead guys!
Today I was faffing around with my oscilloscope. I thought I would actually see how Whammy behaves.
I do not use C2/7 in the feedback loop. The more rounded edges are measured at the input of Whammy, the overshooting ones at the output.
As you can see it does overshoot a bit but then I do not see any wiggling afterwards.
Do you think it is worth adding these caps?
The signal is about 10kHz.
I do not use C2/7 in the feedback loop. The more rounded edges are measured at the input of Whammy, the overshooting ones at the output.
As you can see it does overshoot a bit but then I do not see any wiggling afterwards.
Do you think it is worth adding these caps?
The signal is about 10kHz.
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BTW I see that Burson V6 Classic was mentioned above. The scope pics above are with the same Burson.
I'd be curious to see how it compares if you run the same experiment but with a different opamp
I also measured 10kHz square wave response on various Op Amps at various levels and reported the results in #2,324 .
As you can see, the classic has 0 overshoot on my Whammy.
Are you using additionnal MKP bypass capacitors near the Op Amp as advised on Burson website? (I used 0.33uF Wima MKP10)
As you can see, the classic has 0 overshoot on my Whammy.
Are you using additionnal MKP bypass capacitors near the Op Amp as advised on Burson website? (I used 0.33uF Wima MKP10)
Hi Martigane,
Yes I remember now your analysis, I could not find it yesterday.
I do not have the bypass capacitor (I was going to put it in yesterday but then I asked myself about the need for the feedback cap and I got distracted by the measurements).
You say you do not see the overshoot in your Whammy, but then you see much slower response. Interesting.
Do you remember the input level of your square signal (say post potentiometer)?
Yes I remember now your analysis, I could not find it yesterday.
I do not have the bypass capacitor (I was going to put it in yesterday but then I asked myself about the need for the feedback cap and I got distracted by the measurements).
You say you do not see the overshoot in your Whammy, but then you see much slower response. Interesting.
Do you remember the input level of your square signal (say post potentiometer)?
Hi @Gregje ,
Keep in mind that those are widely zoomed transient response.
Looking at the complete 10kHz cycle, it definitely does not look slow:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/attachments/scope_24-png.837240/
On this measurement, I scaled the pot to have unity gain, ie ~1.5Vp IN / OUT.
Keep in mind that those are widely zoomed transient response.
Looking at the complete 10kHz cycle, it definitely does not look slow:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/attachments/scope_24-png.837240/
On this measurement, I scaled the pot to have unity gain, ie ~1.5Vp IN / OUT.
Yes indeed. Now I have found the scaling on the screenshots you have provided. I was dumb enough not to look for this info in the first place.
And I haven't noticed that there is a huge time scale change between your first screenshot and the subsequent ones.
I will try the bypass cap first. Not that it sounds bad now (far from it), but I want to see whether I will get similar response as you have.
And I haven't noticed that there is a huge time scale change between your first screenshot and the subsequent ones.
I will try the bypass cap first. Not that it sounds bad now (far from it), but I want to see whether I will get similar response as you have.
No problem 🙂
Indeed, it's less intrusive to add bypass caps than feedback ones.
I think I recall some people reporting issues when adding the feedback caps.
I haven't installed bypass yet but it will happen. I guess for me it was more about playing with recently inherited analogue scope and comparing it to my toy Hantek. I have repeated the experiment with Hantek in the last days. I do not want to open another can of worms but coming back to opamp bypassing/decoupling why not to install 2 small decoupling caps from +/- to the ground close to the op-amp pins. That should be even better than one cap from + to -? I guess the main advantage of one cap is no questions/confusion when single or symmetrical voltage power supply used.
I agree about the feedback caps. This is exactly why I haven't installed it.
I agree about the feedback caps. This is exactly why I haven't installed it.
I am annoyed. I hate this kit. It just doesnt work. This is already the second set I bought from the store. Both set ends up in the problem which is all I can heard is 20% music and 80% noise. There was too many uncertainties in my first WHAMMY because I replaced all the component into expensive audiophile parts. It could be my own careless mistake messing thing up. For the second time, I used almost all the parts provided by the store and the result has no difference.
20% music and 80% noise.
I have checked the +17 and -17 voltage test for both times.
I have spent over 1500USD hoping to build one working whammy.
I have spent all of my patient and confidence in DIY.
I hate seeking help when facing difficulties.
Can anyone just tell me what the F is going on here.
20% music and 80% noise.
I have checked the +17 and -17 voltage test for both times.
I have spent over 1500USD hoping to build one working whammy.
I have spent all of my patient and confidence in DIY.
I hate seeking help when facing difficulties.
Can anyone just tell me what the F is going on here.
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Hand made pure silver toroidal transformer. Auricap film capacitor. Dueland 12 awg silver wire. Audio note resistors. Mundorf capacitors. Fully Discrete Voltage Regulator. All of them has been destroyed because of the anger in my first whammy failure.
methodical approach is what you need
open dedicated thread, much easier to follow
post schematic with measured values in critical points
open dedicated thread, much easier to follow
post schematic with measured values in critical points
Hello 14071466d,
your Opamp JRC4580 has a maximum operating voltage of +-16V DC. This could be an issue.
You write, that your operating voltages are +-17V DC.
The screws through the Mosfets in the outputstage are not insulated from the heatsinks (no plastic
washers). But I think the solderpoints of the heatsinks are isolated from the rest of the pcb.
The Mosfets solderlegs could get a reflow with solder. Also the optocouplers (4N35) could need
a reflow?
This is what I see immediately.
Cheers
Dirk
your Opamp JRC4580 has a maximum operating voltage of +-16V DC. This could be an issue.
You write, that your operating voltages are +-17V DC.
The screws through the Mosfets in the outputstage are not insulated from the heatsinks (no plastic
washers). But I think the solderpoints of the heatsinks are isolated from the rest of the pcb.
The Mosfets solderlegs could get a reflow with solder. Also the optocouplers (4N35) could need
a reflow?
This is what I see immediately.
Cheers
Dirk