Hi Atavid,
just got back and saw that you have some problems. That sucks, especially after you get a glimpse of how well a mod can work.
First I want to clear up a point. When I mentioned that I used a ceramic bearing, I meant an actual ball bearing. These can be had from: http://www.bocabearings.com for about 10.00.
I don't remember the actual size right now, but it is probably best to measure your actual bearing size and use that.
Second. suspension setup on the Ariston can be a real pig. While the new Linn springs and lock washers help maintain it, it can still be time consuming.
This method has helped me get the setup in far less time than before. You may have to turn the table over to start. So secure the bearing and plug the spindle hole. Next, align each spring so that the end of the spring closest to the nut, points directly at the spindle bearing. That is, the little part of the spring where it ends. I usually get a ruler and line up the spring towards the center of the bearing well.
As each spring tends to "pull" in a different direction, this ensures that each one is symmetrical. Unless your springs have been twisted, or are unequal, this gets you 95% of the way immediately. After this I set up the table, replace platter, mats belt tonearm etc, then level the table and finally the platter. You may still have to fine tune for best bounce, but now you will be making minute adjustments.
Hope this helps,
Drofo
just got back and saw that you have some problems. That sucks, especially after you get a glimpse of how well a mod can work.
First I want to clear up a point. When I mentioned that I used a ceramic bearing, I meant an actual ball bearing. These can be had from: http://www.bocabearings.com for about 10.00.
I don't remember the actual size right now, but it is probably best to measure your actual bearing size and use that.
Second. suspension setup on the Ariston can be a real pig. While the new Linn springs and lock washers help maintain it, it can still be time consuming.
This method has helped me get the setup in far less time than before. You may have to turn the table over to start. So secure the bearing and plug the spindle hole. Next, align each spring so that the end of the spring closest to the nut, points directly at the spindle bearing. That is, the little part of the spring where it ends. I usually get a ruler and line up the spring towards the center of the bearing well.
As each spring tends to "pull" in a different direction, this ensures that each one is symmetrical. Unless your springs have been twisted, or are unequal, this gets you 95% of the way immediately. After this I set up the table, replace platter, mats belt tonearm etc, then level the table and finally the platter. You may still have to fine tune for best bounce, but now you will be making minute adjustments.
Hope this helps,
Drofo
Hi Drofo, unfortunately the RD11s has a captive ball at the bottom of the spindle well.No way of removing it that i can figure out without risking damaging the spindle well.So the next best thing for me was the small ceramic pad that drops into the well and sits between the tip of the spindle and the ball bearing.Makes a big difference too.
Yes i initially set up my springs that way you suggest, and you are right, it is close too a good setup.
At the moment i've gone off the boil with the TT because i know its not as good as it was initially.I need to get underneath and do some more fine tuning,but its such a "pig" as you say, to get right... i've just been reluctant (lazy) to do it.
I also think that the VTA which i reset from running parallel (cartridge bottom) with the record, to sloping down at the back as per Audioquest's recommendation does not sound the best in my instance,so thats another thing i need to redo.
That always requires setting up the tonearm again after each adjustment.I have one of those very old classic "Dennesen Electrostatics" jigs that does the job fairly easy and very accurately,but again with redoing the suspension and the tonearm/cartridge, its a couple of hours work at the least.
As for the motor/drive problem,that seems to have gone completely now.I can only summise that it was the new drive belt i got from the UK.I've gone back to the 25 year old original belt.
Thanks for the link to that bearing company,very handy for the future.
Yes i initially set up my springs that way you suggest, and you are right, it is close too a good setup.
At the moment i've gone off the boil with the TT because i know its not as good as it was initially.I need to get underneath and do some more fine tuning,but its such a "pig" as you say, to get right... i've just been reluctant (lazy) to do it.
I also think that the VTA which i reset from running parallel (cartridge bottom) with the record, to sloping down at the back as per Audioquest's recommendation does not sound the best in my instance,so thats another thing i need to redo.
That always requires setting up the tonearm again after each adjustment.I have one of those very old classic "Dennesen Electrostatics" jigs that does the job fairly easy and very accurately,but again with redoing the suspension and the tonearm/cartridge, its a couple of hours work at the least.
As for the motor/drive problem,that seems to have gone completely now.I can only summise that it was the new drive belt i got from the UK.I've gone back to the 25 year old original belt.
Thanks for the link to that bearing company,very handy for the future.
If you are looking for premotec motors in Australia, this is the cheapest price I could find.
http://australia.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=4410423
Same as the newish rega upgrade motors
http://australia.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=4410423
Same as the newish rega upgrade motors
Hi All;
Bit of a lurker here. Lot's of reading, not much posting. I don't want to hijack this thread but I have been recently working on an RD11s and I've been reading this with great interest. I just wanted to throw in my experiences.
I have just purchased an RD11s with an RB300 arm. I'm
glad to see so many of them in operation. My motor has a 1977 date code so I assume the table is 30+ years old..
The table has had a LINN spring upgrade with what appear to be new rubber grommets. It was however completely out of alignment as the suspension was not centred. It bounced in several directions when excited vertically. It still sounded pretty good though, way better than my MISSION 775 with the 774LC tonearm. It came with a fairly new Nagaoka MP11 cartridge.
I have completely disassembled the RD11s down to the nuts and bolts. I have ordered the 9904 111 31813 motor from RS in the UK. The table was fitted with Airpax model 9904 111 31302. Mclennan in the UK have 58 in stock (Premotec) and I was going to purchase two from them. Their minimum order is 100 pounds plus 36 pounds for shipping to Canada so one cost as much as two. I then found the 9904 111 31813 which could be had for quite a bit less. The data sheet on the RS website actually comes from Mclennan (UK distributor for Premotec). I was concerned by the much lower power rating of this motor and wondered if it had enough torque to start the platter on the RD11. I had a brief email exchange with one of the good folks at Mclennan and told him exactly what I was trying to do and the model of the motor I was trying to replace. He heartily recommended the 9904 111 31813 and even gave me a brief discussion of cogging torque and indicated that this lower power motor was more than suitable in all respects for this type of application and would
be better than the original. I have ordered the motor from RS (42 pounds plus 16 pounds shipping).
I am in the process of making a new bottom cover for the turntable to add vibrapods or other feet. I am also replacing all of the hardware for the suspension with 18-8 or 316 stainless steel as some of the current screws are no longer straight. The three screws associated with the springs will be using wing nuts to simplify adustment.
I am either going to replace the round base on which the tonearm sits or I will re-furbish the one I have. It had a hole for the Rega arm added by enlarging the original ob-round hole for the original arm. It's a bit of a kluge how it goes together now and the mounting nut does not bear down on material on all sides due to this enlarged hole.
I have sanded the teak base to get rid of scratches and am going to refinish it with tung oil.
I am hoping that when I finish I will have a turntable that will do for the next many years. Perhaps a tonearm upgrade will follow. Based on my brief exposure it's a great sounding table.
Regarding that round disk used to mount the tonearm to the armboard, has anyone ever made a new one? I am considering MDF or really thick G10 (fibreglass).
Thanks
Matt
Bit of a lurker here. Lot's of reading, not much posting. I don't want to hijack this thread but I have been recently working on an RD11s and I've been reading this with great interest. I just wanted to throw in my experiences.
I have just purchased an RD11s with an RB300 arm. I'm
glad to see so many of them in operation. My motor has a 1977 date code so I assume the table is 30+ years old..
The table has had a LINN spring upgrade with what appear to be new rubber grommets. It was however completely out of alignment as the suspension was not centred. It bounced in several directions when excited vertically. It still sounded pretty good though, way better than my MISSION 775 with the 774LC tonearm. It came with a fairly new Nagaoka MP11 cartridge.
I have completely disassembled the RD11s down to the nuts and bolts. I have ordered the 9904 111 31813 motor from RS in the UK. The table was fitted with Airpax model 9904 111 31302. Mclennan in the UK have 58 in stock (Premotec) and I was going to purchase two from them. Their minimum order is 100 pounds plus 36 pounds for shipping to Canada so one cost as much as two. I then found the 9904 111 31813 which could be had for quite a bit less. The data sheet on the RS website actually comes from Mclennan (UK distributor for Premotec). I was concerned by the much lower power rating of this motor and wondered if it had enough torque to start the platter on the RD11. I had a brief email exchange with one of the good folks at Mclennan and told him exactly what I was trying to do and the model of the motor I was trying to replace. He heartily recommended the 9904 111 31813 and even gave me a brief discussion of cogging torque and indicated that this lower power motor was more than suitable in all respects for this type of application and would
be better than the original. I have ordered the motor from RS (42 pounds plus 16 pounds shipping).
I am in the process of making a new bottom cover for the turntable to add vibrapods or other feet. I am also replacing all of the hardware for the suspension with 18-8 or 316 stainless steel as some of the current screws are no longer straight. The three screws associated with the springs will be using wing nuts to simplify adustment.
I am either going to replace the round base on which the tonearm sits or I will re-furbish the one I have. It had a hole for the Rega arm added by enlarging the original ob-round hole for the original arm. It's a bit of a kluge how it goes together now and the mounting nut does not bear down on material on all sides due to this enlarged hole.
I have sanded the teak base to get rid of scratches and am going to refinish it with tung oil.
I am hoping that when I finish I will have a turntable that will do for the next many years. Perhaps a tonearm upgrade will follow. Based on my brief exposure it's a great sounding table.
Regarding that round disk used to mount the tonearm to the armboard, has anyone ever made a new one? I am considering MDF or really thick G10 (fibreglass).
Thanks
Matt
Revive
Hello All
I've just sold my RD11S. I bought it 5+ years ago and never used it as some 301's came along. Prior to packing it for the customer, I made a brief inspection and also heard a tuk-tuk sound coming from the motor. Closer inspection showed the pulley was loose on the shaft. A machine screw on top of the pulley threads into the motor shaft and there were 3 washers below the screw head.
Was this the usual method to fasten the pulley to the m/shaft?
bulgin
Hello All
I've just sold my RD11S. I bought it 5+ years ago and never used it as some 301's came along. Prior to packing it for the customer, I made a brief inspection and also heard a tuk-tuk sound coming from the motor. Closer inspection showed the pulley was loose on the shaft. A machine screw on top of the pulley threads into the motor shaft and there were 3 washers below the screw head.
Was this the usual method to fasten the pulley to the m/shaft?
bulgin
Hi There;
Mine uses a brass adapter on the shaft. It is pressed on (at least it appears that way).
The pully slides onto that followed by a spring, an alumunum spacer, a felt or soft spacer, another aluminum spacer and a retaining snap ring that fits into a groove around the end of the adapter.
The adapter is D shaped on the end as are the holes in the spacers/felt piece.
I am actually trying to get a new brass adapter machined as I have purchased a new motor but I'd like to keep the existing one intact.
Matt
Mine uses a brass adapter on the shaft. It is pressed on (at least it appears that way).
The pully slides onto that followed by a spring, an alumunum spacer, a felt or soft spacer, another aluminum spacer and a retaining snap ring that fits into a groove around the end of the adapter.
The adapter is D shaped on the end as are the holes in the spacers/felt piece.
I am actually trying to get a new brass adapter machined as I have purchased a new motor but I'd like to keep the existing one intact.
Matt
Hi Ricardo,
First I am not really sure about the Linn springs on the RD 80. I remember reading that the Linn springs have been used successfully on RD 40's. I would seem that since they work on the RD 11, 11s, and 40's that they should work on the 80 as well. It might be worth a quick email to the spring dealer for a verify.
Matt,
I think that the spring trick is really prior art. I read everything I could put my hands on for a few weeks, before I started my mods. Somewhere along the line I read about the spring trick, however for the life of me I can't remember where it was.
I think that it is worthwhile to check what Linn has done. They are onto something with the energy dissipation idea. I am suspicious of the glued on fake tonearm board that characterizes the RD 11's. I think that the extra piece of metal and glue may not help the ariston dissipate the tiny vibrations that can colour the sound. My next steps will be to revisit this and some other areas. The gains so far are more than encouraging.
Bulgin,
My pulley is the same as described by Matt.
Regards.
First I am not really sure about the Linn springs on the RD 80. I remember reading that the Linn springs have been used successfully on RD 40's. I would seem that since they work on the RD 11, 11s, and 40's that they should work on the 80 as well. It might be worth a quick email to the spring dealer for a verify.
Matt,
I think that the spring trick is really prior art. I read everything I could put my hands on for a few weeks, before I started my mods. Somewhere along the line I read about the spring trick, however for the life of me I can't remember where it was.
I think that it is worthwhile to check what Linn has done. They are onto something with the energy dissipation idea. I am suspicious of the glued on fake tonearm board that characterizes the RD 11's. I think that the extra piece of metal and glue may not help the ariston dissipate the tiny vibrations that can colour the sound. My next steps will be to revisit this and some other areas. The gains so far are more than encouraging.
Bulgin,
My pulley is the same as described by Matt.
Regards.
Re: Revive
This is something I am looking at myself ... , anyone know of any "templates" for making armboards for for different arms? Mine which I am waiting for it to arrive, has a 28mm hole drilled in it which previously held a Micro Seiki arm, which the previous owner has put on his Micro Seiki table ...
So for starters, I need a new armboard for whatever arm I finally manage to lay my paws on ...
Don't know, but the previous owner of mine has reported a similar "fault" on the one I have just bought - still in "transit" - just as you have described it, so it is possible that this is a "variation" in manufacture process
Regarding arms, a lot of you report using Rega arms, have these been satisfactory or not in your experience?
Reason I am asking, is that mine, which I am waiting patiently for it to arrive, does not currently have an arm, and I might be able to get a Rega arm, which needs to be rewired, and by all reports, Rega arms don't do well on "LINN" type tables ... ?
So I am not sure whether it is worth taking the Rega arm or not ...
soundchaser001 said:
This is something I am looking at myself ... , anyone know of any "templates" for making armboards for for different arms? Mine which I am waiting for it to arrive, has a 28mm hole drilled in it which previously held a Micro Seiki arm, which the previous owner has put on his Micro Seiki table ...
So for starters, I need a new armboard for whatever arm I finally manage to lay my paws on ...
bulgin said:
Don't know, but the previous owner of mine has reported a similar "fault" on the one I have just bought - still in "transit" - just as you have described it, so it is possible that this is a "variation" in manufacture process
Regarding arms, a lot of you report using Rega arms, have these been satisfactory or not in your experience?
Reason I am asking, is that mine, which I am waiting patiently for it to arrive, does not currently have an arm, and I might be able to get a Rega arm, which needs to be rewired, and by all reports, Rega arms don't do well on "LINN" type tables ... ?
So I am not sure whether it is worth taking the Rega arm or not ...
Upgrades
As far as upgrades are concerned, I want to get an Origin Live motor kit with electrical speed control for my RD 11S, and am considering one of the Origin Live arms, as mine currently does not have an arm.
Tho for starters, a Rega arm that needs rewiring is on offer, from a friend ... , not sure of the suitability of Rega arms for this deck.
Also need a new armboard for the deck, as it is drilled for a 28mm arm, and if I am not mistaken, Rega arms are 22mm ... , any suggestions for suitable materials for the use of making a new armboard, i.e. aluminum, hard wood ... , anything else ...?
As far as upgrades are concerned, I want to get an Origin Live motor kit with electrical speed control for my RD 11S, and am considering one of the Origin Live arms, as mine currently does not have an arm.
Tho for starters, a Rega arm that needs rewiring is on offer, from a friend ... , not sure of the suitability of Rega arms for this deck.
Also need a new armboard for the deck, as it is drilled for a 28mm arm, and if I am not mistaken, Rega arms are 22mm ... , any suggestions for suitable materials for the use of making a new armboard, i.e. aluminum, hard wood ... , anything else ...?
Re: Re: Re: Upgrades
What level of improvement should I expect ?
Is the RD 80 good enough to benefit from a motor swap ?
I believe Origin Live´s motor is DC so it should run more quiet but I read something about loosing attack ...
I need some imput from you to decide because I can not experiment before buying the kit.
Regards
Ricardo
java said:
What level of improvement should I expect ?
Is the RD 80 good enough to benefit from a motor swap ?
I believe Origin Live´s motor is DC so it should run more quiet but I read something about loosing attack ...
I need some imput from you to decide because I can not experiment before buying the kit.
Regards
Ricardo
Re: Re: Re: Re: Upgrades
Sorry, cannot report personally, but from all reports I have received, the improvement is indisputable, and I see no way that a different motor, setup to run at the correct speed and be cause for a loss of "attack" ...
As for experimenting their web site claims they have a "if not happy you can return for refund" policy, whether that is supported by local dealers I don't know ...
Russell
RCruz said:
Sorry, cannot report personally, but from all reports I have received, the improvement is indisputable, and I see no way that a different motor, setup to run at the correct speed and be cause for a loss of "attack" ...
As for experimenting their web site claims they have a "if not happy you can return for refund" policy, whether that is supported by local dealers I don't know ...
Russell
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