Well a small update. I've done a substantial amount of work on the room, adding carpets and covering up some reflective surfaces, rearranging stuff on the wall behind me, still a long way to go, but the system sounds a bit more detailed, and images better. I have been experimenting with parametric EQ of my own design, and found that lack of time alignment in the crossover region (or overall) seriously affected sound stage and imaging and I am back to the SHD. Currently working on all pass based delays for time alignment between the woofer and mid-horn, and mid-horn and tweeter. (Woofer and tweeter both need to be delayed relative to the mid-range.
The other news is I have made a decision, and have been in dialog with Athos, and will order Yuichi A-290 and mounting bracketry for the T825s within weeks and the fun starts again.. LOL
The other news is I have made a decision, and have been in dialog with Athos, and will order Yuichi A-290 and mounting bracketry for the T825s within weeks and the fun starts again.. LOL
I just wanted to let everyone know I got my Yuichi A-290 clones from Athos a couple of weeks ago, so far I am very impressed. The build quality is very good, and the sound quality is definitely a significant step up from the 2380As they replaced. (My subjective impression is that there is more detail, better delineation of multi track vocals, more low level and background detail, less distortion, and a lack of resonances in the horn structure - that CNC'd plywood seems to be pretty stiff.)
The target curves I used for EQ are exactly the same ones used for the previous 2380A horns, new room measurements of course. (Dirac3 running on a MiniDSP SHD). The equalized response should be very similar at the listening position as there have been no other changes to room or system in this time frame.
I do have the capability to do separate response measurements with REW, ARTA or Audiotester, but do not have immediate plans to do so.
Due to Covid only one friend has heard the new horns, and had heard the last iteration just a few weeks earlier. His impression was very positive. I don't have further to add at this time.
The target curves I used for EQ are exactly the same ones used for the previous 2380A horns, new room measurements of course. (Dirac3 running on a MiniDSP SHD). The equalized response should be very similar at the listening position as there have been no other changes to room or system in this time frame.
I do have the capability to do separate response measurements with REW, ARTA or Audiotester, but do not have immediate plans to do so.
Due to Covid only one friend has heard the new horns, and had heard the last iteration just a few weeks earlier. His impression was very positive. I don't have further to add at this time.
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This discussion would likely do better in a thread dedicated to the driver question specifically. I started this thread to get feedback on my horn upgrade plans.
I thought the performance above 15kHz on the LaVoce looked questionable, so I would not think it a great choice in a 2 way system, otherwise not bad. One I'd look at is the Faital Pro HF104 amongst others. (It's more money but still affordable) I am wrestling with whether I want to stay with T825 or go to a small horn and 1 inch driver for a new HF horn so I am investigating options.
I thought the performance above 15kHz on the LaVoce looked questionable, so I would not think it a great choice in a 2 way system, otherwise not bad. One I'd look at is the Faital Pro HF104 amongst others. (It's more money but still affordable) I am wrestling with whether I want to stay with T825 or go to a small horn and 1 inch driver for a new HF horn so I am investigating options.
Lavoce DN10.142 topic split to a new thread.
Hi Bret,
Unfortunately I have not, I considered the Be version of the NEO 950, but ultimately selected the AL 'phragms, the Be option more than doubles the cost. There were other areas like the acquisition of these horns where I felt I needed to spend the money.
I really like these drivers, they were a huge improvement over the JBL 2440 they replaced on the JBL 2380A horn.
I suspect the gains going to Be 'phragms with this driver are incremental (I have heard both TD-2001 and TD-4001 CD drivers on somewhat similar horns). Hard to say for sure, but the 950 is an exceptionally good sounding driver with proper EQ on the limited range of horns I have experience with.
Unfortunately I have not, I considered the Be version of the NEO 950, but ultimately selected the AL 'phragms, the Be option more than doubles the cost. There were other areas like the acquisition of these horns where I felt I needed to spend the money.
I really like these drivers, they were a huge improvement over the JBL 2440 they replaced on the JBL 2380A horn.
I suspect the gains going to Be 'phragms with this driver are incremental (I have heard both TD-2001 and TD-4001 CD drivers on somewhat similar horns). Hard to say for sure, but the 950 is an exceptionally good sounding driver with proper EQ on the limited range of horns I have experience with.
The 2440 is pretty good from memory (I still have 2445 and 2446s) but the 2380 is awful so I'm not the least surprised.
I'm trying to get a handle on the Radians and Be for another project and looking for as many datapoints as possible. I've done a fair bit of searching.
I assume even with the Als they have enough top end for you?
Cheers
I cross at 8kHz to a pair of Fostex T825, but based on previous measurements they could be good to north of 10kHz with the AL diaphragms, and possibly a bit higher. My crossover design does not permit crossing higher than 8kHz as I did not foresee a need to do so, if I had the option I would want to try crossing higher.
The 950 is so clean sounding, Vance Dickason tested these for AudioXpress some years ago and commented on the extremely low distortion. The 2440 sounds very dirty compared to the 950.
The 950 is so clean sounding, Vance Dickason tested these for AudioXpress some years ago and commented on the extremely low distortion. The 2440 sounds very dirty compared to the 950.
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Thanks for the reply Kevin and for doing that, I suppose if it were possible to retitle it "Low cost compression drivers and suitable flairs/horns" or some such thing, it may be more useful and easier to find for all, over time. I agree and I did say that it's performance at very high frequencies was down, but also that being well past 50 that's less important (at least to me) than other factors such as FR and distortion etc.
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I had some Athos Yuichi A-290 clones delivered earlier this year as well and I have to say they were a great investment. My 4001s have never sounded better. I thought long and hard about whether it might be easier to have them made locally, or 3D print them, etc. and I think this was the right way to go. If I had a full workshop I would try to DIY it, but you know, I don't...
I have had my A-290s now for a few months and have been working hard to integrate them into the system along with a pair of FaitalPro STH100 horns on HF10AK drivers, and addressing a room which it turns out is even less good than I thought.. LOL
The improvement in performance is pretty significant, but of course no direct comparison is possible since the JBL horns were removed from service and have gone on to a new home. I don't miss them.
Overall a big step forward.
The improvement in performance is pretty significant, but of course no direct comparison is possible since the JBL horns were removed from service and have gone on to a new home. I don't miss them.
Overall a big step forward.
I'm finding room acoustics to be the big hurdle as well. Modern transducers and electronics have made incredible leaps in performance, whereas living rooms have not. With my new room and positioning the seating position is in a huge null, so the bass sounds anemic despite the 15" woofers.
I have a number of interesting room modes, currently I am installing absorbers, have a little bit of diffusion, and have added more carpets on the floor and decluttered particularly close in to the cabinets. Behind me I have removed as many reflective objects and reconfigured with books and odds & ends.
I have installed 4 Acoustimac absorber panels and things have improved markedly. I have 4 more due in the next couple of days.
Moving your listening chair slightly and experimenting a bit with speaker placement may help, even small changes can make a significant difference.
My room is small and cluttered, and naturally lively. Treatment implemented so far has made a pretty big difference.
I have installed 4 Acoustimac absorber panels and things have improved markedly. I have 4 more due in the next couple of days.
Moving your listening chair slightly and experimenting a bit with speaker placement may help, even small changes can make a significant difference.
My room is small and cluttered, and naturally lively. Treatment implemented so far has made a pretty big difference.
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Regarding speaker placement of the 290 horns, just wanted to know if you tried experimenting with them on the long wall vs. short wall. If yes, how did locations impact soundstage, imaging, off-axis response, et al?
I cannot overstress how important room treatment is.
For improving my own room I found using the MATT (Musical articulation test tones) to be really helpful.
https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_matt.php
I use it subjectively to identify problem areas I then investigate with objective means. It is a pulsed sweep which In a really good room it would be clearly pulsed through the entire sweep.
Typically there will be regions where the pulses smear or get lost altogether: those are the problem areas.
Using this test can really improve and speed up the room treatment process.
eso