Our OB is 3-4 feet from back wall. New construction will be from granite plate, we expect higher SPL will be permissed. Amplifiers (2x400W for woofer; 2x200W for mid; 2x200W for tweeter) are all DIY self constructed and finished, active crossover too (20-100Hz;100-1500Hz; 24dB with shelf on bass for linearity.
Attachments
Last edited:
Harold.... interesting idea .... have thought about similar... wonder if one could drape several layers of heavy cloth from the ceiling... maybe 5-8 layers a few inches apart. Wish I had the room and time to try it or something similar. I may experiment with my commercial Widow Maker III and or commercial Manzanita and see what if anything evolves. Best J
With the help of a friend (who showed me this thread and is the real diy audiophile) I'm building a pair of the "small" Manzanitas, using the 12'' peerless woofer and the Vifa (i.e. the slightly older part set). I've a few questions based on using newer developments discussed here while I still use the 12'':
1. is it still recommended to use the woofer trap posted for the 15'' version (previous responses in the thread indicate yes)?
2. would it be recommended to cut off the top of the wings as seen in the newest build?
3. would it be recommended to mount the peerless from behind the baffle as also seen in the newest build?
My baffle is 1'' rigid oak.
Thank you!
1. is it still recommended to use the woofer trap posted for the 15'' version (previous responses in the thread indicate yes)?
2. would it be recommended to cut off the top of the wings as seen in the newest build?
3. would it be recommended to mount the peerless from behind the baffle as also seen in the newest build?
My baffle is 1'' rigid oak.
Thank you!
Obcla
Hi all , just wondering if 10 of these in each baffel would handel the150hz to 2000 range nicely? Peerless by Tymphany FSL-0615R02-08 Professional 6-1/2" Midrange Woofer Driver 8 Ohm. Active crossover for db sloping and baffel on 60 degree arc. Total baffle height 68". Sorry if this is not the place for this question, im pretty green.
Hi all , just wondering if 10 of these in each baffel would handel the150hz to 2000 range nicely? Peerless by Tymphany FSL-0615R02-08 Professional 6-1/2" Midrange Woofer Driver 8 Ohm. Active crossover for db sloping and baffel on 60 degree arc. Total baffle height 68". Sorry if this is not the place for this question, im pretty green.
Original Manzanita wings
MK.... the original wings were a simple as possible in keeping with the "Fast & Easy" build concept. Just enough to provide a bit of additional loading on the 12" and 3-1/2" Vifa at the lower end of the Vifa's spectrum, plus, a bit of added structural support for the baffle. Over the several years this DIY project has been up here, there have been several alternatives noted.
I feel the best compromise between effective and easy is a 5" total wing depth from the base up to the centerline of the Vifa mid-tweet, then taper the rest of the way up ending up with the wing having about one inch of thickness against the rear of the baffle. Trying to get loading without creating obvious cavity resonances. You can experiment with heavy card board and see what works for you then fabricate the permanent wing accordingly. Hope this helps!
MK.... the original wings were a simple as possible in keeping with the "Fast & Easy" build concept. Just enough to provide a bit of additional loading on the 12" and 3-1/2" Vifa at the lower end of the Vifa's spectrum, plus, a bit of added structural support for the baffle. Over the several years this DIY project has been up here, there have been several alternatives noted.
I feel the best compromise between effective and easy is a 5" total wing depth from the base up to the centerline of the Vifa mid-tweet, then taper the rest of the way up ending up with the wing having about one inch of thickness against the rear of the baffle. Trying to get loading without creating obvious cavity resonances. You can experiment with heavy card board and see what works for you then fabricate the permanent wing accordingly. Hope this helps!
Hi john bush,
I was looking at don keeles work on cbt, and was hoping to make a line array that was curved to take advantage of the benefits of this design.
Learning recently that fr drivers sound better bigger than the 3.5" he used , i found these Peerless ones for $24.
Scottjoplin
Was wondering what this idea would sound like with open or infinite baffel after seeing excellent ib work done by trans fi audio.
My ideas are constantly changing due to the excellent knowledge available through members on this site.
I was looking at don keeles work on cbt, and was hoping to make a line array that was curved to take advantage of the benefits of this design.
Learning recently that fr drivers sound better bigger than the 3.5" he used , i found these Peerless ones for $24.
Scottjoplin
Was wondering what this idea would sound like with open or infinite baffel after seeing excellent ib work done by trans fi audio.
My ideas are constantly changing due to the excellent knowledge available through members on this site.
Thanks a lot John Busch, will do! I think it will actually create a nicer design as well. I think I've compromised a bit on the "easy" thing, as we've ended up going quite deeply into working the wood nicely (seemless joins, no screws; and the woofer trap parts are already bought so we'll end up making that as well). Here's the current design, brixvold (another member) drew this in 3d:
(As you can see the design needs to be adjusted a bit, as this assumed mounting the woofer from behind, which Pano suggested not to do).
One last question - I made the front plate 16 inch, but then the two wings have a width of 1 inch each. Should I shave an inch of the width of the front plate to make the total 17''? Thanks again for these designs and all the good help on this thread!
(As you can see the design needs to be adjusted a bit, as this assumed mounting the woofer from behind, which Pano suggested not to do).
One last question - I made the front plate 16 inch, but then the two wings have a width of 1 inch each. Should I shave an inch of the width of the front plate to make the total 17''? Thanks again for these designs and all the good help on this thread!
Rear sound of the Manzanita
Hi Scott
How does the Manzanita perform if it is turned so you actually listen to the rear firing Vifa? Or has anyone tried to mount the Vifa with the backside out. Just to see how it performs that way.
I mean I do not think that there actually is a real dipol 8 pattern there in the first place. Over a certain frequency.
Best regards
Uwe
Hi Scott
How does the Manzanita perform if it is turned so you actually listen to the rear firing Vifa? Or has anyone tried to mount the Vifa with the backside out. Just to see how it performs that way.
I mean I do not think that there actually is a real dipol 8 pattern there in the first place. Over a certain frequency.
Best regards
Uwe
Heinz... You ask an interesting question. The front and rear radiation on the Vifa are very different and worked into the basic design.
The front frequency response is pretty well known and close to the published spec. The rear dispersion pattern and frequency response change relative to the front because of the shadow effect(s) of the frame and magnet assembly.
Adding to that, while the front of the cone includes an engineered dust cover that also helps to extend the frequency range and dispersion, the rear obviously does not.
So if you do a series of on and off axis measurements from the rear in the frequency domain, you find a gradual on axis roll off starting around 4,500 Hz (If I recall) with little above 9Khz, again, if I recall correctly. This is good because the radiation response, on axis is rising out front and falling from the rear. So, end up with a fairly flat and balanced forward response.
The front frequency response is pretty well known and close to the published spec. The rear dispersion pattern and frequency response change relative to the front because of the shadow effect(s) of the frame and magnet assembly.
Adding to that, while the front of the cone includes an engineered dust cover that also helps to extend the frequency range and dispersion, the rear obviously does not.
So if you do a series of on and off axis measurements from the rear in the frequency domain, you find a gradual on axis roll off starting around 4,500 Hz (If I recall) with little above 9Khz, again, if I recall correctly. This is good because the radiation response, on axis is rising out front and falling from the rear. So, end up with a fairly flat and balanced forward response.
Hi,
After living for several months with the Manzanitas ( with the Peerles woofer ) here is my feedback.
When i fired them for the first time the low end was dominant and boomy. The midrange was very sweet with slight woolyness and the treble was totally rolled off. They formed their final tonal balance after 20-30 hours of play time.
John was absolutely right when he made a notice about the little TC9FD18-08 (now branded as Peerless) sitting to deep in the opening. After three days it was unbeatable to listen to besouse it sounded like about 4db louder than the woofer. Lesson learned.
I went with the experience from the first build and i constructed a new pair of baffles. This time i stayed to the basics and gave a bit more attention to the aesthetics. The result in the photos underneath.
What i find about these speakers now that they are "burned in":
The compact size ( for OB speakers) makes them very living room friendly.
The flatness trough all the frequency range makes them very neutral sounding, they only reflect the amp that you use without coloring it.
Their placement is quite important.
In the beginning I was (as many others as i notice ) a bit reserved about the performance abilities of the little TC9FD18 but i was quite surprised after hearing it. I took the risk and invested in better crossover parts that cost five times more than the ultra cheap driver that they are feeding in order to get the most out of it. The top frequencies are incredibly refined and wel rounded. Not even a hint of harshness.
On the negative side, they do need amp with ability to handle enough peak power in order to get decent dinamics out of the 12" woofer. My 20w gainclonne just didn't had enough juice for these speakers. On the local online market i found a nice 30w rms NAD3130 that has high current output stage and it can deliver short-term bursts of 60 to 80 W. I took out it's 30 year old elcos and replaced them with some new Nichicon fg/kz caps. This combo just shines now in my living room.
John a huge thank you for sharing this design as freeware and being patient and answering all our (somet times even ridiculous) questions.
Oliver.
After living for several months with the Manzanitas ( with the Peerles woofer ) here is my feedback.
When i fired them for the first time the low end was dominant and boomy. The midrange was very sweet with slight woolyness and the treble was totally rolled off. They formed their final tonal balance after 20-30 hours of play time.
John was absolutely right when he made a notice about the little TC9FD18-08 (now branded as Peerless) sitting to deep in the opening. After three days it was unbeatable to listen to besouse it sounded like about 4db louder than the woofer. Lesson learned.
I went with the experience from the first build and i constructed a new pair of baffles. This time i stayed to the basics and gave a bit more attention to the aesthetics. The result in the photos underneath.
What i find about these speakers now that they are "burned in":
The compact size ( for OB speakers) makes them very living room friendly.
The flatness trough all the frequency range makes them very neutral sounding, they only reflect the amp that you use without coloring it.
Their placement is quite important.
In the beginning I was (as many others as i notice ) a bit reserved about the performance abilities of the little TC9FD18 but i was quite surprised after hearing it. I took the risk and invested in better crossover parts that cost five times more than the ultra cheap driver that they are feeding in order to get the most out of it. The top frequencies are incredibly refined and wel rounded. Not even a hint of harshness.
On the negative side, they do need amp with ability to handle enough peak power in order to get decent dinamics out of the 12" woofer. My 20w gainclonne just didn't had enough juice for these speakers. On the local online market i found a nice 30w rms NAD3130 that has high current output stage and it can deliver short-term bursts of 60 to 80 W. I took out it's 30 year old elcos and replaced them with some new Nichicon fg/kz caps. This combo just shines now in my living room.
John a huge thank you for sharing this design as freeware and being patient and answering all our (somet times even ridiculous) questions.
Oliver.
