You mean https://www.der-akustische-untergrund.de/ website? I can't find it there. Do you have a link?
Better the Seas 18rly of troels with the good 22 taf/g in the 24 liters slim cabinet over the Sb17 that will perform weaker in the bass imo. It is 8 ohms design and has bass.
Troels has also an half free Discovery 18 or 22 in 8 ohms (iirc) that is a fine q/p driver. Certainly good bass too due to this driver but I'd choose another tweeter so need a little dev which should not be complicated. The sb26 cac tweeter would be a sane choice.
If more monney or not want to spend twice then a Revelator or one of the Classic line talked above never disapointed people for 2 way cause it sounds bigger and better the size subjects and very low disto. SB acouqtics can not follows in bass quality.
There is akso the goid PA drivers in 8" but it asks dev and it is a bet for the bass cause most are in fact mid drivers. But hey you do need efficienty cause your 3 watts amp.
Maybe the chineese LMAO something midrange could be an option. The Visaton b200 is not as good choice for its price.
I would focus on the driver that gives you the lower low end as it is a 2 ways...story to avoid deception. So vented f3 50 hz to 40 hz (not easy for this last) or if wanting 18 db slope tye so called aperiodic but which is not straigth forward but if you know a ready made design. And bass level in the 100 hz to f3 will be weaker than vented.
Troels has also an half free Discovery 18 or 22 in 8 ohms (iirc) that is a fine q/p driver. Certainly good bass too due to this driver but I'd choose another tweeter so need a little dev which should not be complicated. The sb26 cac tweeter would be a sane choice.
If more monney or not want to spend twice then a Revelator or one of the Classic line talked above never disapointed people for 2 way cause it sounds bigger and better the size subjects and very low disto. SB acouqtics can not follows in bass quality.
There is akso the goid PA drivers in 8" but it asks dev and it is a bet for the bass cause most are in fact mid drivers. But hey you do need efficienty cause your 3 watts amp.
Maybe the chineese LMAO something midrange could be an option. The Visaton b200 is not as good choice for its price.
I would focus on the driver that gives you the lower low end as it is a 2 ways...story to avoid deception. So vented f3 50 hz to 40 hz (not easy for this last) or if wanting 18 db slope tye so called aperiodic but which is not straigth forward but if you know a ready made design. And bass level in the 100 hz to f3 will be weaker than vented.
Last edited:
Keep in mind though that you will loose a lot of sensitivity as well as not having the benefits of a cone excursion dip.
So it only works well with woofers with a very high sensitivity and/or when there is plenty of power available.
A smarter choice would be customizing the tube amp in such a way that it already does basically active EQ'ing for the low end.
Thanks diyiggy - I agree that the CA18RLY looks a good choice right now, and better than the SB options. SD is higher too. I can start with sealed and also try vented. 20 litres should work fine. Reading up on it, the 22TAF/G seems well liked for its sound.
look at the link you given from troels : choose the 25 liters options, and 25 liters will be more universal load for futur 8" (if increasing size in the future) than 20l imho.
I also think you need a little more bass cause if I understood well, your speaker are a little farer from the front wall (window in your room) than most average people. I have had a Proac D15 with close size and it can do a lot of bass (was a carbon wooven 6" seas driver which material looks like the ScanSpeak discovery I talked above)
I also think you need a little more bass cause if I understood well, your speaker are a little farer from the front wall (window in your room) than most average people. I have had a Proac D15 with close size and it can do a lot of bass (was a carbon wooven 6" seas driver which material looks like the ScanSpeak discovery I talked above)
Last edited:
it is not hard to reduce inside cabinet volume by adding inert volume like sand or wall bricks inside... it is way harder making the cabinets bigger since wood is glued. Wood became expensive. You just can increase a little the volume by adding damping, but it adds trade offs too like more stuffed bass, so it is not like the rigth needed netto volume ! I started a project like your based on Harbeth clone with my own drivers choice but in a 3 ways with the back and front removable. I found that 28l was a good option and sizing can be near of the gold number size for the eyes when looking the cabinet . But the Proac took less area on floor.
If non listening at insane volume I found the efforts of @xrk971 intteresting with its Fast 2 Way design : not expensive drivers and from a good quality in their own register : bass + mid-tweeter FR. Can been made with a less expensive Fountek FR and the Dayton 8" is known for its excellent bass and smooth high-end ! both drivers are a keeper. This man made me purchased backthen the SS 10F/8424G FR after his reccording listening tests, hahaha ! Good driver indeed !
If non listening at insane volume I found the efforts of @xrk971 intteresting with its Fast 2 Way design : not expensive drivers and from a good quality in their own register : bass + mid-tweeter FR. Can been made with a less expensive Fountek FR and the Dayton 8" is known for its excellent bass and smooth high-end ! both drivers are a keeper. This man made me purchased backthen the SS 10F/8424G FR after his reccording listening tests, hahaha ! Good driver indeed !
If you registered and looked at the price at tlhp shop , it's a bang for the bucks combo . I purchased the 22 taf/g there and it is the OW1 at cheap price as is saying Gravsen.
If having a doubt about bass, the Discovery wooden fiber is good as the 8" Dayton from the Fast 'xrq971 project, but they perform not as well as a 6.5" in the higher mid of course due to their size in the mid till the tweeter, so it calls always for a strong wave guided tweeter with a 8" (also for the filter transition due to mismatch size) or a 2.5" FR.
trade offs, and your amp already asking them.
Last edited:
The 22TAFG is a nice tweeter for the price and it sounds as good as some of the higher end Scanspeak models.
If I only had a few watts of amplifier, I'd go with the Eminence Beta 8a along with the Morel CAT378 crossed at 2.5k LR2.
You can always add a sub or two down the road.
There's the B&C 8PE21 with its 95 - 96dB sensitivity after BSC on a narrow baffle. Couple that with the Celestion CDX1-1430 on an STH100 WG, its a high end high efficiency 2 way. The 1430 driver sounds like a better metal dome.
You can always add a sub or two down the road.
There's the B&C 8PE21 with its 95 - 96dB sensitivity after BSC on a narrow baffle. Couple that with the Celestion CDX1-1430 on an STH100 WG, its a high end high efficiency 2 way. The 1430 driver sounds like a better metal dome.
Last edited:
Just a thought, can we help with good advice instead of chewing on every possible 6,5” to 8” woofer? The man has no means to develop a loudspeaker system, I say: build a proven kit.
Just a thought, can we help with good advice instead of chewing on every possible 6,5” to 8” woofer? The man has no means to develop a loudspeaker system, I say: build a proven kit.>>
Good morning! I've already said numerous times that I will build an existing design. Just in a different shaped cabinet. There's no need to repeat this.
But for a sealed design the choice of woofer and size of cabinet is critical. I'm sure you know that very well. I want to get it right before spending money, cutting out panels and building. I now, with the help of you guys, know a lot more about how to do it than I did at the start of the thread.
Good morning! I've already said numerous times that I will build an existing design. Just in a different shaped cabinet. There's no need to repeat this.
But for a sealed design the choice of woofer and size of cabinet is critical. I'm sure you know that very well. I want to get it right before spending money, cutting out panels and building. I now, with the help of you guys, know a lot more about how to do it than I did at the start of the thread.
Last edited:
Hi Andy,
If you change change the shape of the cabinet that invalidates the crossover to some extent as the box shape and crossover are interdependent.
Would you consider building a box with limited bass and adding an active sub (or similar concept) to fill in the missing octaves?
By the way, you may find that cost of a measurement mic, may be less expensive than the cost of one of your crossovers. This makes it a good investment. Much measurement software is both free and very good.
If you change change the shape of the cabinet that invalidates the crossover to some extent as the box shape and crossover are interdependent.
Would you consider building a box with limited bass and adding an active sub (or similar concept) to fill in the missing octaves?
By the way, you may find that cost of a measurement mic, may be less expensive than the cost of one of your crossovers. This makes it a good investment. Much measurement software is both free and very good.
Is that in reference to the SB23NACS45-8?
It does seem to perform well in theory vented. I'm interested in your comment though, because I have a pair and a cabinet with no baffle yet and I'm wondering whether to make a passiive bass unit for a modular build, or put a tweeter in with it - I have a waveguide Wavecor that can cross low before and also a SB 29mm that seems potentially suitable, albeit without the waveguide.
My optimistic reading of the SB spec sheet was that cone breakup is at about 3.8kHz and the off-axis dips at 1.6 and 2.6 might be related to the cone shape since they don't correlate much to major on-axis disturbance -and that the impedance blip at about 1.8 is 'the usual' surround mismatch.
I was hoping to use it much as one might use an RS225-8, with 4th order just north of 1kHz.
It is true that a well made loudspeaker has the position of drivers and the size of the baffle as part of the x-overs tune.
On the other side, if you do not change too much the distance of both drivers, the result will not lead to a bad speaker.
There is a worst case scenario, when a kit for a free standing cabinet is build into a wall. This will be a desaster.
So when Andy changes the baffle from maybe 25x35cm to 20x45cm this will not break his neck. It would be audible in an A To B comparison, but not really make a good kit bad. Maybe more a matter of taste and distance / direction of the speaker to the listener.
Anyway, if you ask me, I would build a well documented speaker exactly as measured and change not more than a centimeter. Even an edged or rounded baffle influences distraction. With the distance tweeter / woofer even 1 cm difference may be too much.
On the other side, if you do not change too much the distance of both drivers, the result will not lead to a bad speaker.
There is a worst case scenario, when a kit for a free standing cabinet is build into a wall. This will be a desaster.
So when Andy changes the baffle from maybe 25x35cm to 20x45cm this will not break his neck. It would be audible in an A To B comparison, but not really make a good kit bad. Maybe more a matter of taste and distance / direction of the speaker to the listener.
Anyway, if you ask me, I would build a well documented speaker exactly as measured and change not more than a centimeter. Even an edged or rounded baffle influences distraction. With the distance tweeter / woofer even 1 cm difference may be too much.
If you change change the shape of the cabinet that invalidates the crossover to some extent as the box shape and crossover are interdependent.>>
Yes, I'm aware of that. Presumably the critical element of the "box shape" is what's on the front baffle. Everything behind that is less critical? It's a compromise I'm willing to make, though I'll try and stick as close as possible to the baffle arrangement. Thanks turbowatch for your comments, you've been very helpful right through the thread.
No subs. I can tolerate a roll-off in deep bass. I have people downstairs anyway. There wouldn't be missing octaves, that's overstating it! The bottom E on a bass is 41Hz. C above that is 65Hz, which for the designs I've been looking at is F3.
I may well set up a measurement system. I already have good studio mics because I'm a musician and use them for songwriting. I use a Mac so any software would have to use Mac OS. By all means suggest what's good and available.
Yes, I'm aware of that. Presumably the critical element of the "box shape" is what's on the front baffle. Everything behind that is less critical? It's a compromise I'm willing to make, though I'll try and stick as close as possible to the baffle arrangement. Thanks turbowatch for your comments, you've been very helpful right through the thread.
No subs. I can tolerate a roll-off in deep bass. I have people downstairs anyway. There wouldn't be missing octaves, that's overstating it! The bottom E on a bass is 41Hz. C above that is 65Hz, which for the designs I've been looking at is F3.
I may well set up a measurement system. I already have good studio mics because I'm a musician and use them for songwriting. I use a Mac so any software would have to use Mac OS. By all means suggest what's good and available.
If you take into account that it is a metall cone, crossing higher than 800-1000 Hz would be an experiment. It looks more like a woofer than a mid-woofer.
Maybe a combination with some broad band module would make sense. There are some really good ones around that often cost much less than a high quality dome tweeter.
Last edited:
Andy, can you post how much quoted, real rms power your amp has? Just to get an idea.
If you have a very weak amp, this is not a question of how loud you play, but how well it can control the speaker.
This somehow limits the drivers that will sound nice with it.
For ages the Lowther chassis in huge cabinets have been a favorite for people with valve amps of low power. Low power like 3 Watt or the like. The Lowther stuff has very light moving mass combined with massive magnets. That is their basic design. All the fancy phase plug and different magnet materials are more marketing gimmicks. The huge drive makes it not only loud, but keeps the cone under control.
So the worst for such an amp would be a heavy cone with a weak drive and soft suspension.
If you have a very weak amp, this is not a question of how loud you play, but how well it can control the speaker.
This somehow limits the drivers that will sound nice with it.
For ages the Lowther chassis in huge cabinets have been a favorite for people with valve amps of low power. Low power like 3 Watt or the like. The Lowther stuff has very light moving mass combined with massive magnets. That is their basic design. All the fancy phase plug and different magnet materials are more marketing gimmicks. The huge drive makes it not only loud, but keeps the cone under control.
So the worst for such an amp would be a heavy cone with a weak drive and soft suspension.