All good
2 way speaker with 6.5" and tweeter.
Accurate sealed
lots of clarity and money well spent on nice tweeter.
either metal or ceramic
pretty easy and feasible project.
Main points... slightly wider baffle
for hopefully less or no baffle step correction in crossover.
If new box is being made.
The tweeter should just be mounted
tight and close as possible to woofer.
Or closest center to center spacing
as possible.
Tweeter crossed on steep crossover
3rd or 4th order.
Sums well, and at higher listening levels
steep filter reduces distortion.
Your initial concern was 20 liters to big.
and no, 20 to 28 liters is about ideal. Will get nice Q
sealed for many 6.5" drivers that are mechanically designed
for sealed.
28 liters works fine, makes slightly wider baffle
no problem. And overall size could be very
similar to the mission 761 form factor.
Visaton makes very clean clean ceramic coated
tweeter. Rivals clarity of many metal domes.
and very flat response.
KE 25 SC
Easy as that W170S woofer KE25 tweet.
Only other thing for advice.
Would not be dead set on tweeter mounted dead center
on baffle. Assuming better response be slightly offset
on baffle. And that is it.
I Could, and many others easily sim and sum those on a baffle in about
45 mins to 2 Hrs of work.
and have crossover for specific new baffle.
2 way speaker with 6.5" and tweeter.
Accurate sealed
lots of clarity and money well spent on nice tweeter.
either metal or ceramic
pretty easy and feasible project.
Main points... slightly wider baffle
for hopefully less or no baffle step correction in crossover.
If new box is being made.
The tweeter should just be mounted
tight and close as possible to woofer.
Or closest center to center spacing
as possible.
Tweeter crossed on steep crossover
3rd or 4th order.
Sums well, and at higher listening levels
steep filter reduces distortion.
Your initial concern was 20 liters to big.
and no, 20 to 28 liters is about ideal. Will get nice Q
sealed for many 6.5" drivers that are mechanically designed
for sealed.
28 liters works fine, makes slightly wider baffle
no problem. And overall size could be very
similar to the mission 761 form factor.
Visaton makes very clean clean ceramic coated
tweeter. Rivals clarity of many metal domes.
and very flat response.
KE 25 SC
Easy as that W170S woofer KE25 tweet.
Only other thing for advice.
Would not be dead set on tweeter mounted dead center
on baffle. Assuming better response be slightly offset
on baffle. And that is it.
I Could, and many others easily sim and sum those on a baffle in about
45 mins to 2 Hrs of work.
and have crossover for specific new baffle.
https://www.roomeqwizard.com/ is available for Mac.
To get the best results your mic needs to be calibrated.
+1 on LT needing lots of amp power.
My setup has a total of 320W behind the 4 bass amps. Amp clipping is a non issue in my case, but you can only drive small speaker so far!
I think we can rule out LT for Andy’s case.
To get the best results your mic needs to be calibrated.
+1 on LT needing lots of amp power.
My setup has a total of 320W behind the 4 bass amps. Amp clipping is a non issue in my case, but you can only drive small speaker so far!
I think we can rule out LT for Andy’s case.
And not needed.
It is just a 2way with 6.5" and tweet.
Not rocket science.
Sealed is accurate and easy.
With right woofer, even tube amps love sealed.
No fart tube roller coaster impedance curve.
With right woofer, impedance peak wont be obnoxious
30 to 40 ohm peak.
Be normal 20 to 25 ohms peak.
all sealed and accurate.
tube amp love it, any solid state drive it
no problem.
not rocket surgery, just 2 way.
2 wires from amp. turn on, adjust volume
all done
How will we ever get 10 watts average and 20 watts
peak, for a zillion 6.5" woofers with 4mm linear travel.
What happened to all the everyday 50 watt amplifiers
available everywhere ohhhh no !!
It is just a 2way with 6.5" and tweet.
Not rocket science.
Sealed is accurate and easy.
With right woofer, even tube amps love sealed.
No fart tube roller coaster impedance curve.
With right woofer, impedance peak wont be obnoxious
30 to 40 ohm peak.
Be normal 20 to 25 ohms peak.
all sealed and accurate.
tube amp love it, any solid state drive it
no problem.
not rocket surgery, just 2 way.
2 wires from amp. turn on, adjust volume
all done
How will we ever get 10 watts average and 20 watts
peak, for a zillion 6.5" woofers with 4mm linear travel.
What happened to all the everyday 50 watt amplifiers
available everywhere ohhhh no !!
Last edited:
I'd estimate my amp as being 5W per channel max. Schematic attached. I must emphasise that I don't listen loud, my room is 4.5 x 3.5 metres and I have nice people downstairs. So going with stand mount so I'm free to play music any time of day and it won't go through the floor. I'm a double bass player and what is important to me is a natural and realistic tone to the double bass. I seem to be getting that better with a sealed box - it sounds more like a real double bass to my ears, minus a few notes at the bottom being softer. I listen to a lot of jazz, being mostly a jazz musician myself.
Thanks for the thumbs up, WhiteDragon. I'm Welsh so my dragon is red!
Thanks for the thumbs up, WhiteDragon. I'm Welsh so my dragon is red!
2x 5 Watt is more than uncomfortable under normal conditions, "normal" listening happens with a few milliwatt.
The problem is to keep the moving mass under control. Best for you would be a horn speaker 😉
The problem is to keep the moving mass under control. Best for you would be a horn speaker 😉
Something like this could make you and your amp happy
https://oaudio.de/Lautsprecher-Selb...on/Standlautsprecher/W5-Horn-2106-Bausatzhtml
https://oaudio.de/Lautsprecher-Selb...on/Standlautsprecher/W5-Horn-2106-Bausatzhtml
Totally agree. My amps are massively overpowered. Even when playing loud, power to the speakers rarely exceeds 5W and mostly much less even with LT EQ.
If listening levels are low
3 to 5 watts is feasible.
Many 6.5" generalized
for enough mechanical properties
to work sealed in small box.
Tradeoff is low sensitivity
83 to 85 dB
more like 82 to 83dB with crossover.
Just part of the game.
Most would likely suggest high sensitivity speakers.
Something closer to 89 to 92 dB
Then again tradeoff generalized
for high sensitivity driver in sealed box.
To actually work well or not have bloomy bass
or decent box Qtc.
The tradeoff for high sensitivity drivers.
Would be a large box for sealed.
pretty much double the volume.
45 to maybe 60 liters.
So it is just to be aware.
82 dB 2 ways have been powered by
5 to 10 watt tube amps.
But overall max SPL is limited to
low average listening levels. 85 to 90 dB
is about realistic level.
With tube amp, crossover design is important.
To also get ruler flat impedance. Get good match
to transformer ratio.
Something I enjoy, designing crossovers without
roller coaster impedance curves at crossover point.
Dont accept the obnoxious 25 to 40 ohm peaks
that most think is OK. lol
Computer aided design, should eliminate
garbage impedance curves. Make lovely
tube or solid state friendly designs.
3 to 5 watts is feasible.
Many 6.5" generalized
for enough mechanical properties
to work sealed in small box.
Tradeoff is low sensitivity
83 to 85 dB
more like 82 to 83dB with crossover.
Just part of the game.
Most would likely suggest high sensitivity speakers.
Something closer to 89 to 92 dB
Then again tradeoff generalized
for high sensitivity driver in sealed box.
To actually work well or not have bloomy bass
or decent box Qtc.
The tradeoff for high sensitivity drivers.
Would be a large box for sealed.
pretty much double the volume.
45 to maybe 60 liters.
So it is just to be aware.
82 dB 2 ways have been powered by
5 to 10 watt tube amps.
But overall max SPL is limited to
low average listening levels. 85 to 90 dB
is about realistic level.
With tube amp, crossover design is important.
To also get ruler flat impedance. Get good match
to transformer ratio.
Something I enjoy, designing crossovers without
roller coaster impedance curves at crossover point.
Dont accept the obnoxious 25 to 40 ohm peaks
that most think is OK. lol
Computer aided design, should eliminate
garbage impedance curves. Make lovely
tube or solid state friendly designs.
Is ok
Likely work for solid state.
Coaxial can be fun for design.
Single 4 ohm drivers are waste of time for tube amp.
Impedance can dip to 3 or even 2 ohms some cases.
Not needed for transformer coupled amplifier.
Your hoping to be on lower current tap
8 ohm even 16 ohm.
High current windings like 4 ohm or 3 ohm.
Pointless to do.
Heavy wire, poopy sound.
then ruler flat impedance for crossover.
not roller coaster like most.
driver did almost seem impressive at 90 dB
for 6" driver.
Keep in mind rating is at 2.83 volts into 4 ohms
nominal.
So 90 dB is what it does at 2 watts not 1 watt.
Probably sound fine. 4 ohm loads waste of time
for single driver. Would only tolerate 4 ohm load
if 2x driver not single driver.
That doesn't seem right re experiment.
Apart from https://areteaudio.files.wordpress.com/2017/04/nc-17-research-paper1.pdf, which uses theSB driver, there seem to me to be plenty of 2-way RS225 -8 designs that seem successful. A bunch here https://areteaudio.wordpress.com/?s=RS225, amongst others.
I do have an RS225-8 and Visaton B80 system in progress, I'm aware of the FAST/WAW approach.
Visaton use that in some of their kits also suggest cabinet sizes
https://www.visaton.de/en/products/drivers/woofers/w-170-s-8-ohm
They also offer a lot of kits 😉 and appear to be UK VAT registered.
http://www.visatonshop.at/en/Kits/2...hparam=&cnid=3l8a0a89ad210cbe8e5872b30d98f1e9
I have no idea about the effects of impedance and variation over the F range on valve amps.
REW software will do all sorts in the testing area and is available for MAC
I mentioned Boxsim but that is win software. It runs on Linux under wine and I thought that a sort of MAC wine is available. At least some of the kit designs can be loaded into it directly from the site that offers direct project files.
No necessarily. You can also use it to raise the rolloff and shape the response. I've been considering this to help with high-pass for midrange drivers in an active DSP system. My motivation is to get to a known roll-off that I can work with (possibly to add further filtering for LR4) rather than extend F3 downwards - and to be able to put the driver in a comparatively large box with plenty of stuffing to absorb back-waves. That will actually cut low frequency going to the amp as well as limit the driver excursion, so I'd expect it to be kind to the amp. I'd consider it with a 2.1 midbass and sub setup as well, rather than trying to extend the midbass as low as possible and then cross to the sub based on the resulting achived F3.
I've been looking at Visaton and yes, it's very possible. All the same, I'm impressed by the many positive reviews of the CA18RLY and the 22TAFG and that's a proven Troels design that will work sealed or ported. So that's my front runner at the moment, and I am indeed looking for a 8 ohm design to match my amp.
I read it can be "painted" black with marker refill ink (edding t100), without or only minimum change of tsp:
https://www.der-akustische-untergrund.de/gallery-1/gallery-1/
Scroll down half way to "Florian Landvoigts' BYT MK2".
If your confident with the Seas CA18RLY and 22TAFG
cast frame woofer and metal dome nothing to sneeze at.
Straight forward Hifi
The sensitivity slighter better and seems to be expected performance
in sealed box.
Qtc for .7 to .8 is 19 to 29 liters
So troels compact box is hitting around .8 Qtc at 19 liters
box from 19 to 29 liters is good.
pretty normal for decent driver.
Volume has good range of tolerance.
For what people consider ideal or flat
.707 Qtc is 29 liters.
Troels has right approach as mentioned
steep filter 3rd order for tweeter.
And also as mentioned placement is tight and close
as possible to woofer.
Has classic case of garbage 40 ohm peak at crossover point.
Can be fixed to be better match for transformer coupled amp.
All in all 6.5" sealed driver can expect sensitivity to be about this
range. Just dont want box too small / too boomy/bloomy
Keep Qtc .7 to .8
And as noted shoot for clarity / performance with money tossed
at clean metal or ceramic dome for clarity / detail.
once we have baffle size, crossover easily optimized.
cast frame woofer and metal dome nothing to sneeze at.
Straight forward Hifi
The sensitivity slighter better and seems to be expected performance
in sealed box.
Qtc for .7 to .8 is 19 to 29 liters
So troels compact box is hitting around .8 Qtc at 19 liters
box from 19 to 29 liters is good.
pretty normal for decent driver.
Volume has good range of tolerance.
For what people consider ideal or flat
.707 Qtc is 29 liters.
Troels has right approach as mentioned
steep filter 3rd order for tweeter.
And also as mentioned placement is tight and close
as possible to woofer.
Has classic case of garbage 40 ohm peak at crossover point.
Can be fixed to be better match for transformer coupled amp.
All in all 6.5" sealed driver can expect sensitivity to be about this
range. Just dont want box too small / too boomy/bloomy
Keep Qtc .7 to .8
And as noted shoot for clarity / performance with money tossed
at clean metal or ceramic dome for clarity / detail.
once we have baffle size, crossover easily optimized.
I've been following this thread since andyjevans started the discussion. I'm in a similar position to choose a midbass for a M-T-M design and prefer the sound of sealed. The SB16PFCR I asked is the non-coaxial version. Except for the sensitivity bit will it not work as published.
Sorry andyjevans , don't mean to hijack your thread.
Sorry andyjevans , don't mean to hijack your thread.