I've made a number of systems with Constant Directivity pro coax units from FaitalPro, Radian and B&C. As @nc535 mentioned earlier in this thread. These all have back-of-magnet compression drivers firing through the center with the cone acting as a horn. Which is a completely different animal from a bridge-mounted car-style coax (and I'm not a fan of those).
Some of these drivers have more "ragged-ness" than others. The B&C 15CXN88 tweeter for example has a fairly smooth downward sloping response.
I fix those problems with DSP and once that's taken care of, I get extremely well behaved polar patterns, excellent impulse and step response, and dynamic range to burn. Example 1, Example 2, Example 3.
My first dipole / coax adventure was Example 3 above, and I was shocked at the clarity, transparency, and dynamics. The tweeter in the FaitalPro 12HX230 has some issues that have to be dealt with via EQ but once handled it has a great sounding high end.
Some of these drivers have more "ragged-ness" than others. The B&C 15CXN88 tweeter for example has a fairly smooth downward sloping response.
I fix those problems with DSP and once that's taken care of, I get extremely well behaved polar patterns, excellent impulse and step response, and dynamic range to burn. Example 1, Example 2, Example 3.
My first dipole / coax adventure was Example 3 above, and I was shocked at the clarity, transparency, and dynamics. The tweeter in the FaitalPro 12HX230 has some issues that have to be dealt with via EQ but once handled it has a great sounding high end.
Abbey Road started off with Altecs (Beatles were recorded using those) which they replaced with Tannoy DCs in Lancaster cabs (Dark Side of the Moon was recorded using those).
At some point Tannoy came out with the FSM which were rather popular but a lot of commercial studios had Ureis soffit mounted and didn't want to do the building work to fit FSMs so Tannoy made the FSM-U which had the outer dimensions of Urei 813s so they could be slotted straight into the holes left by Urei monitors.
In the 90s Abbey Road replaced the Tannoys with more conventional Quested monitors.
Don't think there was a lot of remastering going on because of monitor changes if any.
Cleaned up the Pioneers. Check out how they have the cone shape, stem and tweeter. It sticks out forward of the roll surround. The terminal strip is very accessible, and the capacitor can be removed for biamping for electronic time alignment. I'll use that option
@perrymarshall Thats quite the achievement you made with that OB design. I'm pretty certain it took you a great deal of time and patience to get the performance of these to the level they're at now. If it didn't necessitate so much DSP, I'd be all over that setup. Im just not in the position to dedicate that much energy to getting something of that nature to the point I could leave it alone and be happy with it. I just prefer analog filters and most of these pro coax drivers can't be made to perform that well with the exclusive use of analog, passive xovers.
Those who you call moaners are people who actually created or developed something new and eventually want to get something back in due time.
Those who created nothing and only copy-paste "internet knowledge" needn't worry.
Anybody can copy-paste from the same source.
Then why only complaining about existing situation and shouting down any attempts to bring about something better? Apparently the bad situation requires continual discussion
Hey man, I don't regard you in that crowd, you do things and make things that are visible to everyone and the challenges of your location and your achievements are clear to all. Very much invited to a discussion once I clear the boards with some ongoing projects and start a community DIY coaxial project
The answer is quite simple: because nowadays manufacturers charge outrageous amounts of money for mediocre products. Speaker prices have tripled or quadrupled in some 10 years time. As a target audience we are fully entitled to criticize sloppy work of manufacturers, especially since all the necessary knowledge is out in the field. https://patents.google.com/patent/USD615532S1/en
Furthermore, positivism does not build loudspeakers. Discussion and knowledge do.
You are a knowledgeable fellow, if you think this is an awesome discussion, then let's see what the knowledgeable types get up to. Please keep in mind that this is a DIY site, it will attract some of us who want to give it an actual go
I am surprised that you support shouting that down
I am surprised that you support shouting that down
I do nor recall having "shouted down" anything or anyone so far. All I am saying is most manufacturers of coaxials do not do their homework properly, yet want substantial amounts of money for their sub-par products.
Isn't it easier just to vote with your wallets? I bet if all you folks actually spent that personal effort in speaking to these manufacturers, you might find an open-minded or enthusiastic one. I usually find that the better approach. I don't want to spend what lil life might be left complaining in circles and cannot fathom why others do so. Enjoy coaxial, push for a better result or make it happen. The pros don't bite, do they?
A few of these coaxes are well behaved. The 15CXN88 could definitely work well with active analog crossovers. Passive crossovers would be doable too.
Another driver I found the other day that looks like a good candidate ("not ragged") is the 13.5" Lavoce CAN143.00T.
I have listened only to two loudspeakers using coax. Both were 15", both had "no midrange", only bass + highs.
Is this "typical" or just bad implementation ?
Is this "typical" or just bad implementation ?
More often than not, designers will try to voice the speaker more laid back to mask rough midrange FR and other non-linearities. I see this often with domestic designs ie Klipsch, Bose, etc. A good test would be to EQ the speaker flat and see if it doesn't sound harsh or fatiguing. Mamy purple do prefer a laid back midrange and sometimes this is done to create lower hearing fatigue listening at higher SPLs.
@perrymarshall You'd have to cross the LF pretty low to make that one work. The sharp dip just above 1k makes that one difficult IMO.
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I'm not so sure about this, there are factors that make 'flat' not so correct to begin with. One example would be what's in the room vs the direct sound. Some of this comes down to the speaker, the placement and the room.
The HF section can be crossed as low as 800 (based on its impedance curve) so even a traditional passive crossover looks promising for this.