I've done plenty of designs for the 110 -I would never claim any are 'ultimate' since there is no such thing; what is optimal varies according to circumstances & requirements. I avoid trying to give subjective descriptions when possible simply because what I hear is not necessarily what others hear, and I lack the writing skills to ensure that what I describe by a given phrase is what everybody else means by the same term.
Significantly different spec. The Sota 11 was closer to the Pluvia 11 (they're related), the 110 has a somewhat different focus in its baseline T/S / low-frequency electromechanical spec. So it's not a drop-in for the Cesti MB[R], but I've done a number of vented standmount enclosures. The Cesti was certinly a very pretty box, and if there are any left, they're cracking value (statement of fact only, I have no 'interest' in the matter financially speaking) but as far as the alignment itself goes there was nothing particularly special about it -I designed it as a moderately damped vented alignment that suited a reasonable variety of rooms / user requirements, which is more or less what I apply to most vented boxes I do for the forum & DIYers unless otherwise noted.
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Forgive the superlative, it was meant in the loosest form as meaning the most popular incarnation. I have seen the various diy designs that you have done Scott along with others, it follows each will have there strengths and weaknesses, but generally in the world of hifi there is one that sticks out from the crowd on a concensus level?
Chris asked if i had tried FHXL/CHN-110.
As i listened to these i started thinking about a dirt cheap system based on these. So i hooked up thr stereo ACA in place of the SIT-3.
It is still very good. Bad recordeings sound bad (as i was listening to a Mary Blige song, i wondered if they needed some help uptp and then some cymbals would come in, no problem. Even in my big room, power was not a huge issue. The cleaner sonics of bridged/balanced ACAs probably even better.
But CHN-110 + Bob Berner Flat-pak (FHXL or Joan or Pensil) is about $500 US, add an ACA for $300 and install one of the small ACP+ boards inside, and add a source. Sans that source & the finish on the loudspeakers we ar eat less than a grand. If you diy more, less.
dave
As i listened to these i started thinking about a dirt cheap system based on these. So i hooked up thr stereo ACA in place of the SIT-3.
It is still very good. Bad recordeings sound bad (as i was listening to a Mary Blige song, i wondered if they needed some help uptp and then some cymbals would come in, no problem. Even in my big room, power was not a huge issue. The cleaner sonics of bridged/balanced ACAs probably even better.
But CHN-110 + Bob Berner Flat-pak (FHXL or Joan or Pensil) is about $500 US, add an ACA for $300 and install one of the small ACP+ boards inside, and add a source. Sans that source & the finish on the loudspeakers we ar eat less than a grand. If you diy more, less.
dave
I think it's a great driver on paper, i did not build something with it so i can't tell how it is in real live. But without baffle it already sounds very good, even with little breakin (like 10h). Off course there is no bass without baffle but for the rest it sounds like it looks on paper.
But with my experience of interpreting t/s parameters and graphs (and i did already build quiet a few sealed and bass reflex systems) this is a very versatile fullrange driver with a good balanced sound (no nasty peaks in the high frequencies), a good xmax to go low, and it sim very good in ported cabinets for fullrange, or sealed for a top of a waw with a bigger woofer (10"-15").
I did make a test design on paper of a simple 35L slot ported, and there it gets to 35Hz without any issues, and flat on almost full power. I can build that in 18mm mdf for about 250€ i think (with the wood cut at a cnc mill). with good birch plywood will be more like 400€ to build that. If you cut it yourself it will be a lot cheaper (but i don't have a wood workshop or the right tools for that). I don't have drawings as i can't use cad, only lists of measures to cut wood. You can also tune it higher if you don't want to stress the driver or have a smaller cabinet, like Scott did with his designs.
But i wanted to do something else that is why i started learning about TL's and other quarter wave designs. Ported is not a challenge for me anymore, (ML)TL's are as that was unknown terrain for me. I've seen a few designs made by others that i could build, but halve the fun for me is designing it myself and lean how they work while doing that. So it's taking some time for my design will be ready, and it may not work. I base my design on what Scott told and showed me and on the papers that i found of Martin King who's the guy behind the mathematical models that are used to design these. But it's a lot of study work...
So for a sure shot, look for the designs of Scott and Dave as they have way more experience and knowledge than i have on this. I'm just starting on TL's and other quarter wave designs...
But with my experience of interpreting t/s parameters and graphs (and i did already build quiet a few sealed and bass reflex systems) this is a very versatile fullrange driver with a good balanced sound (no nasty peaks in the high frequencies), a good xmax to go low, and it sim very good in ported cabinets for fullrange, or sealed for a top of a waw with a bigger woofer (10"-15").
I did make a test design on paper of a simple 35L slot ported, and there it gets to 35Hz without any issues, and flat on almost full power. I can build that in 18mm mdf for about 250€ i think (with the wood cut at a cnc mill). with good birch plywood will be more like 400€ to build that. If you cut it yourself it will be a lot cheaper (but i don't have a wood workshop or the right tools for that). I don't have drawings as i can't use cad, only lists of measures to cut wood. You can also tune it higher if you don't want to stress the driver or have a smaller cabinet, like Scott did with his designs.
But i wanted to do something else that is why i started learning about TL's and other quarter wave designs. Ported is not a challenge for me anymore, (ML)TL's are as that was unknown terrain for me. I've seen a few designs made by others that i could build, but halve the fun for me is designing it myself and lean how they work while doing that. So it's taking some time for my design will be ready, and it may not work. I base my design on what Scott told and showed me and on the papers that i found of Martin King who's the guy behind the mathematical models that are used to design these. But it's a lot of study work...
So for a sure shot, look for the designs of Scott and Dave as they have way more experience and knowledge than i have on this. I'm just starting on TL's and other quarter wave designs...
Next amp up. I forgot how good the little Class A PP EL84 triode amp sounds. Like the ACA has more power than than it does (3.2w at clipping). This amp sounds closer to the SIT-3 than the ACA. In some ways it may even be better. Kidos to CHris for the build (he actually did 2, but the 1st one had a power trafo go up in smoke (boy did that stink), OPTs ended up in a TubeLab PP.
The FHXL need a touch more damping, bass is a bit bigger than i would say is optimal and could be tamped down a bit. I suspect higher Rout than even the ACA. Guess i also need to add ACA balanced monoBlocks to the list see what happens with their lower 2nd order and higher Rout. And maybe the 3875 chip-amp too.
Bottom line, CHN-110/FHXL seems to be pretty good with whatever amp i throw at it. Next up, the biggish Class AB.
And then A11ms goes in and these broken in CHN-110 will be available for someone in Canada.
dave
The FHXL need a touch more damping, bass is a bit bigger than i would say is optimal and could be tamped down a bit. I suspect higher Rout than even the ACA. Guess i also need to add ACA balanced monoBlocks to the list see what happens with their lower 2nd order and higher Rout. And maybe the 3875 chip-amp too.
Bottom line, CHN-110/FHXL seems to be pretty good with whatever amp i throw at it. Next up, the biggish Class AB.
And then A11ms goes in and these broken in CHN-110 will be available for someone in Canada.
dave
And finally i got some wood cut, (no plywood as it's not availeble in good quality due to covid), but for a test of my first own MLTL design mdf is ok. I finished sanding today and i'm going to paint the front and sides (back is still of for stuffing) in warnex as this must be a cheap build for testing...
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Finished one roughly (still need to paint the back fully) and played in mono for an hour and it seems that being rather anal on my calculations and overthinking all way to much paid of... They sound real good, even next to my big setup with a Alpair 10.3M and a Scanspeak woofer. They got plenty of bass and a well balanced and detailed sound, even without any filtering. Now finish the second one and do some more testing...
Later one i will probally rebuild them in plywood and finish them with regards for the looks, now it's just a mdf rough testbuild painted with Warnex i still had in stock... It's the first MLTL own design and i rather loose 60€ on wood and cnc than 250€ for quality ply for that...
Later one i will probally rebuild them in plywood and finish them with regards for the looks, now it's just a mdf rough testbuild painted with Warnex i still had in stock... It's the first MLTL own design and i rather loose 60€ on wood and cnc than 250€ for quality ply for that...
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Hi Dave, have you had a chance to flesh out a miniOnken for the CHN-110? I'd be pretty interested in seeing that, or at least the vital stats of it.