LOL…who me?
No cockiness here…just GREEDINESS!!!
I realized how handy DSP could be for a hack like me when I first started playing in the DIY sandbox.
Tried MiniDSP…wasn’t thrilled with the results.
Been using Hypex amps for OB woofers for a while now. Not perfect, but handy and I can live with it on the bottom end.
I recently picked up another pair of used Hypex to play with other ideas I want to explore with coaxial compression drivers and other various horn ideas.
In the end I’d like to learn enough to do something nice with some of Papa’s Bi-Amp kits.
No cockiness here…just GREEDINESS!!!
I realized how handy DSP could be for a hack like me when I first started playing in the DIY sandbox.
Tried MiniDSP…wasn’t thrilled with the results.
Been using Hypex amps for OB woofers for a while now. Not perfect, but handy and I can live with it on the bottom end.
I recently picked up another pair of used Hypex to play with other ideas I want to explore with coaxial compression drivers and other various horn ideas.
In the end I’d like to learn enough to do something nice with some of Papa’s Bi-Amp kits.
I'd been wondering about playing with a minidsp for the crossover as practice to then do it actively with one of the bi-amp kits...
If anyone had had any luck with Tannoys and one of Papa's crossover kits in the past I'm sure a few, including me, would be interested to know. I've had a search for that before and had no luck. Although now ZM has a spangly crossover and seemingly all roads lead to ZM 😂
Air coils for the win!
With air coils you don´t need Duelund caps. 😊
I mean, you can have it if you wish, but air coil is a better bang for buck. (With usual disclaimer: IMO)
In short, when it comes (not only) to Tannoys, (All)Mighty ZM has gattered so much experience and knowledge that he should be your first draft when thinkering about them.
You can guess who else uses air chokes in their Tannoys. Yep! That one who use them among other speakers when evaluating his (mostly Class A) amplifiers.
Funny fact is that they come to the same idea irrespectively of each others musings with Tann xovers.
With air coils you don´t need Duelund caps. 😊
I mean, you can have it if you wish, but air coil is a better bang for buck. (With usual disclaimer: IMO)
In short, when it comes (not only) to Tannoys, (All)Mighty ZM has gattered so much experience and knowledge that he should be your first draft when thinkering about them.
You can guess who else uses air chokes in their Tannoys. Yep! That one who use them among other speakers when evaluating his (mostly Class A) amplifiers.
Funny fact is that they come to the same idea irrespectively of each others musings with Tann xovers.
Zero is writing primarily about air choke for tweet section
air choke (instead of Iron core) in bass section is not such novelty, but as autoformer for tweet section, I didn't saw it anywhere
I did it decade or so ago and I was happy with difference
only several years later Papa posted picture of his Tann xover and I believe they came to same idea..... at least as I can decipher what I saw on pic
though, air core autoformer isn't exactly novelty, per se ........ I just didn't stumble on it used in speaker xovers
edit - can't find the pic in my PC, most likely I didn't name it adequately when saving
air choke (instead of Iron core) in bass section is not such novelty, but as autoformer for tweet section, I didn't saw it anywhere
I did it decade or so ago and I was happy with difference
only several years later Papa posted picture of his Tann xover and I believe they came to same idea..... at least as I can decipher what I saw on pic
though, air core autoformer isn't exactly novelty, per se ........ I just didn't stumble on it used in speaker xovers
edit - can't find the pic in my PC, most likely I didn't name it adequately when saving
found it
Pa posted it on forum few years ago, and this is last iteration, with proper caps
he sent me pic later
conclusion - he gave most to bass choke, fat wire, while tweet autoformer is made of filmsier wire
mine are better, both bass and tweet chokes are made of same 2mm Dia wire
Pa posted it on forum few years ago, and this is last iteration, with proper caps
he sent me pic later
conclusion - he gave most to bass choke, fat wire, while tweet autoformer is made of filmsier wire
mine are better, both bass and tweet chokes are made of same 2mm Dia wire
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ha!
while I was searching for picture posted above, I stumbled on TAS Tribute photo, obviously I didn't saw all details before ......
while I was searching for picture posted above, I stumbled on TAS Tribute photo, obviously I didn't saw all details before ......
Pa uses HPD 385 in big a$$ inverted Jensen Imperials…no?
I’ve wondered about more of the specifics for a while and his comments about them being a “tool” and not necessarily the best listening source.
My interest started also with wanting to hear differences more clearly when I made changes to a system.
Then I just plain started enjoying them.
I wonder how universal his crossover approach is regarding the specifics of his drivers and substitutions of other Tannoy 15s.
HPD 385 is pepperpot?
Does he use original foam surrounds or something else that might affect Fs and otherwise?
Just curious.
I’ve wondered about more of the specifics for a while and his comments about them being a “tool” and not necessarily the best listening source.
My interest started also with wanting to hear differences more clearly when I made changes to a system.
Then I just plain started enjoying them.
I wonder how universal his crossover approach is regarding the specifics of his drivers and substitutions of other Tannoy 15s.
HPD 385 is pepperpot?
Does he use original foam surrounds or something else that might affect Fs and otherwise?
Just curious.
yeah, some of AlNiCo ones, 15" in Jensen cabs; which type exactly ... dunno, for me differences between various AlNiCo types are minuscule - little more or little less bass, slightly different mids, but who cares for tiny details
and cabs, my opinion is that they're far from being best ( or even adequate) for 15" Tann, simply having too much gain in LF than it is needed; but Pa is big Boy, oriented to solve and do, instead to obsess
that's clever
what I posted above is pretty much most complete and best original Tann xover for all Pepperpot equipped DCs;
differences for various diameters (10", 12", 15") being practically just value of series cap in tweet section, and no need for autoformer if 10" driver is in case - just appropriate choke used in that position - say 2.55mH
note - even Westminster is using basically that xover, with addition of nasty RLC series drek for bass driver, practically nasty patch as attempt of solving inherent problems with cab construction itself; problem with Westminster is that bellow specific frequency, entire box is acting not as proper load for driver but as damn black hole; that's why said RLC is there
whatever is written on back of driver, be it sticker on nice cap or missing paper sticker on side of magnet - if you look inside of HT horn and you see small holes aligned in coincident circles, that's Pepperpot
so, yes, HPD 385 is Pepperpot driver
every regularly/commonly made bass driver of this world is having two suspensions; upper one (circumference of bass cone) usually called just "surround", lower one called "spider"
in 99% of them, spider is )springy) dominant for Fs, while surround must have much greater elasticity, because we don't want to flex cone itself against anything else but air; so surround - when in mint shape- must be irrelevant for Fs
now, surround is having own influence on some things of entire mechanism, mainly in transferring resonances in cone to basket, but with cones made good, lesser resonances in cone itself so lesser imprtance of type of surround itself
conclusion - you can use whatever you want on any of your Tanns for surround - neoprene, rubber, cloth ....... and changes are going to be minuscule
under condition that you got same pliability/softness/elasticity surround, differences between them are not particularly influencing Fs, nor it will change sound that much
that's the reason why I wrote earlier that even those Tannoys where someone replaced original surround with balloon sized neoprene one, more suited for damn car subs, are not going to sound bad (different yes, worse yes, but far from bad) ..... and even Fs is close to original (as from factory) ...... been there, repaired mess like that
in short, applicable for all Tanns, regardless of age:
- integral cone roll surround with adequate original goop treatment (oldest drivers) - you're damn rich boy, having those and you don't hang on DiyA
- Tannoplas/neoprene surround - worry only if it's torn, regardless of age
- rubber surround - worry only if it's torn, regardless of age
- pleated cloth surround - worry if it's older than 15yrs, measure Fs; if Fs is more than 5Hz above datasheet value, cry here what to do
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Bubba Bob was Family enough, so he took-over (Papa's) Joe Sammut's set of 15" Tanns, when Joe was gone to smile on us all, above........ and I know Bubba is immensely happy listening them every day
Bubba, you ever had a peek inside, just to know do you have same xovers inside, as on pic posted in #86?
Bubba, you ever had a peek inside, just to know do you have same xovers inside, as on pic posted in #86?
I’ve been bombarding ZM with question over email and he wanted wanted me to copy his answer here but he pretty much beat me to it 😅. I don’t want to hijack Andy’s thread too, I just have a lot of question regarding the crossover for the 3149.
I’ll try find a simple solution for the autoformer. My plan is to check with solen here in Canada if they can make a custom choke add a tap at 2.55mH than +20% turns. If they cannot I was thinking about buying a stock 4.7mH choke and add the 2.55mH tap. ZM, would it be possible to let say take a 4.7mH air coil and try to find with a LCR meter where the 2.55 ish turn is? By removing the enamel on a small spot on a visible turn and measuring? Than I could solder a wire from there and proceed to ajust the voltage gain by unwinding the coil until I got the 1.5db boost at the end. Does that sound like a bad idea?
if you got lucky to locate 2.5-2.6mH spot with needle-through-enamel on either side of choke, you're ..... lucky
then you can solder a wire ( no need for fat one, current's are not big) to exact spot, and then use any sort of signal gene ( music card/headphone out on laptop) for the job, to check do you have exactly +20% of modulation at end of choke; if not, easy to change
every scenario is possible if you have a way of arranging some sort of winding apparatus ...... that means proper insert for choke you get originally, arranging sides of some 5mm (or thicker) hard material, and some concoction for rotating that thingie
if not familiar with basics, ootoobe is place to to search
anyhow, do not expect to do any work strictly with/from hands only - fat wire is easy to work with...... only when you have proper tools
in short - if you have proper bench vice... or even just bench drill, you can improvise and make it
then you can solder a wire ( no need for fat one, current's are not big) to exact spot, and then use any sort of signal gene ( music card/headphone out on laptop) for the job, to check do you have exactly +20% of modulation at end of choke; if not, easy to change
every scenario is possible if you have a way of arranging some sort of winding apparatus ...... that means proper insert for choke you get originally, arranging sides of some 5mm (or thicker) hard material, and some concoction for rotating that thingie
if not familiar with basics, ootoobe is place to to search
anyhow, do not expect to do any work strictly with/from hands only - fat wire is easy to work with...... only when you have proper tools
in short - if you have proper bench vice... or even just bench drill, you can improvise and make it
I’ve just check with a small 2.2mH coil and I understand what you mean by lucky. The inductance climb quite rapidly between each layer of row. Lucky maybe but not impossible! I think I will buy the 14awg 4.7mH choke and try it. If not possible I will unwound to 2.55mH and rewound. Not easy but I think I could manage to do that. I have a lot of experience winding guitar pickups here at my shop, kind of the same thing but not with the same size of wire 😅.
ZM
I have yet to take back off the Tannoys but the picture you posted is the crossover that Kent and Nelson said was in Joe's Tannoys. They sent the same pic.
I love the Tannoy's with ZM's Iron Pumpkin and SIT amps. 😊😊😊😊😊😊
Bubba Bob
then no need to open your boxes
edit: I meant that you love the Tannoy's also with ZM's non-SIT amps
edit: I meant that you love the Tannoy's also with ZM's non-SIT amps