Thanks for the incredible valuable inputs! I’m looking to upgrade my Cabasse Bahia Altura’s and am going back and forth between old Tannoys, new Fynes or a Troels Gravesen design (something like the Faital 3WC-10). The thing with Tannoys is that they go locally for crazy prices and I just have no idea of the real value…. Is a pair or 15” monitor gold worth 4 to 5kEU?! I saw a pair of more recent DC12i (97dB!) for a bit over 1kEU, but can’t find a lot of thoughts about them… or something like the 12” here attached, but without filter for 650EU. A system 8 probably going to be too small… not easy. Important for me is that pinpoint wide & deep soundstage, but not only behind the speakers… and working well with most FW-amps! ;-)
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I’d await MZM’s thoughts. But going with Tannoy, I’d look for 12" or bigger if possible.
In general, if not paying heavy money, be prepared to service them - yourself. Also, notice that if you go with foam surround drivers, these stiffen up over time and increase Fs significantly, needing either MZM’s magic alcohol-indiced rat poison treatment, or replacement.
In general, if not paying heavy money, be prepared to service them - yourself. Also, notice that if you go with foam surround drivers, these stiffen up over time and increase Fs significantly, needing either MZM’s magic alcohol-indiced rat poison treatment, or replacement.
I’d await MZM’s thoughts. But going with Tannoy, I’d look for 12" or bigger if possible.
In generalif not paying heavy money, be prepared to service them - yourself. Also, notice that if you go with foam surround drivers, these stiffen up over time and increase Fs significantly, needing either MZM’s magic alcohol-indiced rat poison treatment, or replacement.
I am OK with the extra work on my drivers, they were so cheap. But if paying a lot, or if you are unable to take on a driver service yourself, beware and take your time.
In generalif not paying heavy money, be prepared to service them - yourself. Also, notice that if you go with foam surround drivers, these stiffen up over time and increase Fs significantly, needing either MZM’s magic alcohol-indiced rat poison treatment, or replacement.
For example, on that picture of the to me unknown driver, the spider looks saggy, meaning the cone is also saggy. Might be just the pics, but if buying such a driver, unless you know it’s full history, spend some time checking parts availability, go have a look a them, and or ask the seller all relevant questions. And haggle if possible 🙂
I am OK with the extra work on my drivers, they were so cheap. But if paying a lot, or if you are unable to take on a driver service yourself, beware and take your time.
MZM sez that is where the bass and chest magic really kicks in. Others have said 12 is a god mid point between smaller and the biggest drivers. But really, I am just basing this on others advice and experiences. And those drove me towards looking for 12-inches. That and them fitting my room good 🙂 But like I said, me myself would look for 12’s, like I did. But no scientific reason other than locating drivers that can lead to my audiophile retirement speakers
as long it is DC, be it Pepperpot or Tulip, and as long it is properly functional - Tannoy is a Tannoy is a Tannoy
differences between them are mere matter of personal preferences, not matter of quality
things to check:
- if driver being originally in small PA box or wedge monitor, it's likely type with small Vas and high Fs, so no go if one wants to build proper full range box, it can't be done without bass helper**
- if driver is having pleated (cloth) surround, read on my blog how to cure it to restore proper low Fs
even in cases where ( who knows what was original ) surround is freshly replaced with bazookatractorlike neoprene (as shown on pic above, in #41) be sure that driver is mostly looking horrible, but even those ghastly looking surrounds are relatively close to good one; luckily - there are available proper surrounds for majority of Tann drivers; one instance is sicken4you at German fleabay; he's even having cloth surrounds for 12 and 15" Tanns; not exactly same looking (number of rolls), but proven as fully functionally adequate and of right dimensions
as I wrote to Andy several times - DC Tanns are sturdy tractor-like construction, without too much gimmicks, so working on them is relatively easy and not so critical, even for amateur as I am, when dealing with speakers
lack of knowledge and mileage ....... that I'm always compensating with sheer naivete and optimism
**if in doubt, and you need help with some info, cry loud enough, somebody will help
differences between them are mere matter of personal preferences, not matter of quality
things to check:
- if driver being originally in small PA box or wedge monitor, it's likely type with small Vas and high Fs, so no go if one wants to build proper full range box, it can't be done without bass helper**
- if driver is having pleated (cloth) surround, read on my blog how to cure it to restore proper low Fs
even in cases where ( who knows what was original ) surround is freshly replaced with bazookatractorlike neoprene (as shown on pic above, in #41) be sure that driver is mostly looking horrible, but even those ghastly looking surrounds are relatively close to good one; luckily - there are available proper surrounds for majority of Tann drivers; one instance is sicken4you at German fleabay; he's even having cloth surrounds for 12 and 15" Tanns; not exactly same looking (number of rolls), but proven as fully functionally adequate and of right dimensions
as I wrote to Andy several times - DC Tanns are sturdy tractor-like construction, without too much gimmicks, so working on them is relatively easy and not so critical, even for amateur as I am, when dealing with speakers
lack of knowledge and mileage ....... that I'm always compensating with sheer naivete and optimism
**if in doubt, and you need help with some info, cry loud enough, somebody will help
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silly boy
foam surrounds are going rotten, be it plain neoprene or older iteration, called Tannoplas (first neoprene thingies with special Tann Voodoo elastic treatment applied) .... and ultra rarely going hard
cloth surrounds are going hard on Tanns ( and not just on them) and that even in case that driver was never used, sitting in darkness of cardbox from day 1
as I wrote above, all of that solvable easily nowadays, with little money and some elbow grease
Sorry, goofed on the foam. Haha.
Attaching a few more pics of the VC, which was seemingly damaged but it turned out to only be visual.
Careful sanding of uneven areas, cleaning and decreasing, then a thin layer of clear spray paint.
Forgot to mention time and time again that MZM approved every step of the process in advance, to avoid f…ups.
You will also notice that glue has been removed from contact surfaces. I did this wherever applicable.
Attaching a few more pics of the VC, which was seemingly damaged but it turned out to only be visual.
Careful sanding of uneven areas, cleaning and decreasing, then a thin layer of clear spray paint.
Forgot to mention time and time again that MZM approved every step of the process in advance, to avoid f…ups.
You will also notice that glue has been removed from contact surfaces. I did this wherever applicable.
OK - I'm joining the club. 😎 I just ordered some used System 1200's... Hopefully, the delivery man doesn't beat them up as he did with my JBL 4410's.
Legend says that Tannoys sound nice with a First Watt M2 - is that true?
Legend says that Tannoys sound nice with a First Watt M2 - is that true?
I have a pair od System 1200
box is so-so
xover is a mess, total massacre, nothing is coming out of them
and people (even some professionals) are having them highly regarded ......
anyhow, make CPA12 xovers for them (fat air-coil for bass, please) and then you can expect proper sound
box, good for starters
if ever, proper tower MLTL, pair for retirement
box is so-so
xover is a mess, total massacre, nothing is coming out of them
and people (even some professionals) are having them highly regarded ......
anyhow, make CPA12 xovers for them (fat air-coil for bass, please) and then you can expect proper sound
box, good for starters
if ever, proper tower MLTL, pair for retirement
Coming together to todays status. Work left is to measure Fs, remove old basket top paint and respray.
Hi,
As i'am one liking the 1200 i've heard i'm truly interested in your view about their xover and what you would suggest to cure it ZM?
It seems they had issues with this line of drivers: the offset between acoustic center in the sytem800 driver gives Tannoy's passive filter design philosophy an hard time.
In the active version it is solved through the use of allpath filters in the woofer way. It sound good to me but it's not simplistic passive approach anymore. It can bother, not me.
If i can put my two cents about Tannoy driver size: my most prefered monitors are 15dmtII ( filter seems different than mark1, sweeter sounding to me).
I liked 12" ( Dmt and 1200).
If you want two ways those are the ones (i'm talking about size not the specific drivers) .
10" i've heard ( system1000) could do too if active ( i don't think there is a passive version of them?) as it seems they pushed attention to detail further with active filtering with them ( maybe to widens customer target?).
I have low experience with domestic range so can't speak of, but i think same trend would apply: bigger the better ( directivity control happens lower in freq with bigger drivers and it might play a role too ( as well as bass rendering). It does for me.)
System800 is what i listen to atm.
Experiment with the driver told me (for my preference) it needs 3 way and sealed. Xover in the 250/300hz range. Going sealed helped to clear midrange from leaking mid from bass reflex tube, highish xover help with modulation of acoustic at higher level ( it goes unoticed to me when low level).
The xover i've tried with other coax ( not Tannoy) and it brings good ( imho) even to 12" and 15".
And it's not something new to Tannoy: Buckingham, 215 Dmt, Dreadnought used same approach.
It's really a question of size (3 way are ussually bigger than 2ways) and if you are ok with another filter or not.
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I have to say, it seems like the prices on the System 12 & 15 DMT(ii) have gotten silly lately… similar to the old red, black, silver etc.
Nice Tannoy are always difficult to find on this side of the puddle as it is.
I regularly see them asking $3k on average.
I suppose that’s bound to happen as the older ones seem untouchable to mortals and there’s only so many to go around.
I’m glad I jumped on mine when I did.
I got lucky to find an old timer selling them on Audio Asylum a few hours drive from me.
Guy was so nice when I handed him the money he gave me $100 back for gas!
Nice Tannoy are always difficult to find on this side of the puddle as it is.
I regularly see them asking $3k on average.
I suppose that’s bound to happen as the older ones seem untouchable to mortals and there’s only so many to go around.
I’m glad I jumped on mine when I did.
I got lucky to find an old timer selling them on Audio Asylum a few hours drive from me.
Guy was so nice when I handed him the money he gave me $100 back for gas!
Even though you are very happy, and the Tann’s can take a real beating, I think I would avoid jumping on them
Hello Krivium, no coaxial… a bit too old for that. Personally I do like them and they have nice efficiency… but they lack some slight details & would like some more impact. They are also limited in the low end.
These are the ones: https://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0105/cabassebahia.htm
Attached a review from Jean Hiraga in French ;-)
These are the ones: https://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0105/cabassebahia.htm
Attached a review from Jean Hiraga in French ;-)
I have purely non-scientific procedure for evaluating drivers
Let me write in short how I did it when I obtained my pair of System 1200 (worth saying that it was practically through gifts exchange with my dear Friend - he had System 1200 with no use for them but reluctant to simply sell them, I had something which I didn't need but also reluctant to simply sell)
When I got them, in absolutely mint and original state (except few minor blemishes on cab paint), I did listen them in my Workshop for few weeks
Of course they were inferior to my main ref. speakers, but I didn't expect them being that good
However - what I was hearing was far from anything I already heard form any other DC I had experience with
Now- my routine - pulled just one driver out of box, mounted it on top my main ref spk ( one side); bass connected FR (no filter) and tweet just through few uF
That way I have my ref speaker on left side, bare (non boxed) speaker/driver on evaluation on right side
I'm listening just upper bass+mids+highs that way, expecting to hear raw character of driver and to judge what's possible to get with
What I heard that way is - simply saying - same as that heavy blanket previously in front of DC-3139 is now removed
I had previous experience constructing MLTL for friend's DC-3134 (other guy did made actual box) while I made CPA12 xover, which I did found through much tinkering as best iteration of known xovers
And I knew how similar driver is singing through that xover, while with original System 1200 I could hear nothing - no foot tapping, nada
I'm allowing personal tastes, pretty much I don't care what personal tastes of other people are, nor I mess with that
But, for my taste, I'm finding DMT12 xover criminal, System 1200 even worse , while CPA12 xover is giving much more verity and life to same drivers
see enclosed, be amused, use your own head to judge what's best for you
mine is to share what I know, and best we can do is to each of us form own informed opinion ...........
Let me write in short how I did it when I obtained my pair of System 1200 (worth saying that it was practically through gifts exchange with my dear Friend - he had System 1200 with no use for them but reluctant to simply sell them, I had something which I didn't need but also reluctant to simply sell)
When I got them, in absolutely mint and original state (except few minor blemishes on cab paint), I did listen them in my Workshop for few weeks
Of course they were inferior to my main ref. speakers, but I didn't expect them being that good
However - what I was hearing was far from anything I already heard form any other DC I had experience with
Now- my routine - pulled just one driver out of box, mounted it on top my main ref spk ( one side); bass connected FR (no filter) and tweet just through few uF
That way I have my ref speaker on left side, bare (non boxed) speaker/driver on evaluation on right side
I'm listening just upper bass+mids+highs that way, expecting to hear raw character of driver and to judge what's possible to get with
What I heard that way is - simply saying - same as that heavy blanket previously in front of DC-3139 is now removed
I had previous experience constructing MLTL for friend's DC-3134 (other guy did made actual box) while I made CPA12 xover, which I did found through much tinkering as best iteration of known xovers
And I knew how similar driver is singing through that xover, while with original System 1200 I could hear nothing - no foot tapping, nada
I'm allowing personal tastes, pretty much I don't care what personal tastes of other people are, nor I mess with that
But, for my taste, I'm finding DMT12 xover criminal, System 1200 even worse , while CPA12 xover is giving much more verity and life to same drivers
see enclosed, be amused, use your own head to judge what's best for you
mine is to share what I know, and best we can do is to each of us form own informed opinion ...........
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Just curious ZM…would you try the CPA 12 crossover with my K3149 in MLTL as well?
I plan on first trying them bi-amped with BJ2 and the Tannoy X5000 on open baffles.
I’ll run them for a while and then test them with DATS to see where they are at with Fs.
I plan on first trying them bi-amped with BJ2 and the Tannoy X5000 on open baffles.
I’ll run them for a while and then test them with DATS to see where they are at with Fs.