It would also be strange if FaitalPro were to "lie" on its data sheet and then put all the necessary "counter-evidence" on it. So no: I did not mean to say that FaitalPro is lying.
Best regards
Michael
You can just define Xmax as (2x winding depht) on the footnote of your datasheet and print it - it's not a lie, or?
Only B&C is giving Xvar as value of BL(x) change - and it's very interesting when you compare old (pre Klippel) and new drivers! And it's most of the time less as the funny calculated Xmax.
So the first thing I do when comparing drivers is calculating the real Xmax and compare these cause there are at least 3 different calculations from PA manufacturers.
B&C 15PS40 has 6mm Xmax, 15PS100 has 8mm Xmax. Both have a 21mm coil and 11mm pole plate. Just a few years in between ...
The same nonsense as their RMS rating which magically went up for the same chassis over the years... (Eminence Kappa 15LF for e.g)
Only B&C is giving Xvar as value of BL(x) change - and it's very interesting when you compare old (pre Klippel) and new drivers! And it's most of the time less as the funny calculated Xmax.
So the first thing I do when comparing drivers is calculating the real Xmax and compare these cause there are at least 3 different calculations from PA manufacturers.
B&C 15PS40 has 6mm Xmax, 15PS100 has 8mm Xmax. Both have a 21mm coil and 11mm pole plate. Just a few years in between ...
The same nonsense as their RMS rating which magically went up for the same chassis over the years... (Eminence Kappa 15LF for e.g)
Has anyone given these a go or know anyone who has?
They currently appear to only be readily available in the UK, priced at £160 which is around $200 a piece, since UK ejected from EU they are subject to import tax from Italy, I would suspect similar pricing in USA.
Super interested in the 12RS430's since playing with some 10PR300 mids that I found pleasantly musical, clear and lively.
Hoping 2024 is treating you all well!
They currently appear to only be readily available in the UK, priced at £160 which is around $200 a piece, since UK ejected from EU they are subject to import tax from Italy, I would suspect similar pricing in USA.
Super interested in the 12RS430's since playing with some 10PR300 mids that I found pleasantly musical, clear and lively.
Hoping 2024 is treating you all well!
Just received two of the 12RS430's and are currently prototyping a V-configuration BR box with a roughly ~3.4 L volume. We are playing around with Aero-ports for the first time, so still getting our box tuning figured out. Our ambition is to have a configuration that is tuned to 40Hz at higher SLP's but can extend down to ~30hz with port extenders. A bridged Pascal S-Pro2 amp powers each driver. Just got them mounted and making sound last weekend and am excited to see what they can do!
It's tough to see the ports, but we are using CNC-cut pink foam inside of them. The sides of the box are removable which allows us to chop away or add foam to change port dimensions fairly easily. Not sure if you all have seen some of the white papers floating around about these port styles but I am eager to see how they perform (we chose the NFR=0.5 port shape pictured below).
If anyone wants to see any tests or photos I am happy to accommodate. We are somewhat limited on test equipment FIY.
It's tough to see the ports, but we are using CNC-cut pink foam inside of them. The sides of the box are removable which allows us to chop away or add foam to change port dimensions fairly easily. Not sure if you all have seen some of the white papers floating around about these port styles but I am eager to see how they perform (we chose the NFR=0.5 port shape pictured below).
If anyone wants to see any tests or photos I am happy to accommodate. We are somewhat limited on test equipment FIY.
Attachments
Like a lot of you, I was drawn to the low Fs, high Xmax, and somewhat higher sensitivity than a lot of similar 12" woofers. Seems like an interesting compromise. I have (4) LAB12s sitting around the shop and might do a side-by-side comparison down the road (interesting to see the difference in MMs between the two 12" drivers).
Also on the table is a compact passive radiator design using the 10RS430. Mostly a curiosity project at this point.
Also on the table is a compact passive radiator design using the 10RS430. Mostly a curiosity project at this point.
A few project updates:
The RS430 are pretty fun drivers so far. We put a lot of power through them last night and they nearly rattled our OSB prototype box to pieces. I could only get a couple of attachment screws into one of the drivers and I was genuinely worried about the woofer tearing out the wood. Our next design iteration will be ¾ BB ply with lots of bracing, threaded inserts and dado construction. We wanted to push them a little harder but the prototype box sounded like a 1994 Honda Civic with 7 million miles on it. I attached some test results below.
We are still refining the port tuning and will do some more tests soon. It's our first time working with this configuration so there is still a lot of trial and error. We started way oversized and have been removing layers of foam as we test. Does anyone have advice on modeling Aero-ports with extreme flare rates (NFR 0.5+) in WinISD or Hornresp? Our target is F3 @ ~40Hz, and then with some port extenders a target of F3 ~30Hz. We are still missing the mark on our port tunings so our next design move is to recut the flares and add some port length.
We will also keep you updated on how the results of using DSP PEQ low/high shelves with shallow slope BW crossovers -instead of steep crossovers- for the high pass filter works out. The goal is to increase LF output without greatly increasing group delay. I am trying to get accurate readings on group delay using FuzzMeasure, but I think the overall latency of the Marani DSP makes it a little difficult to understand the results.
So far I really like the V-Opposed woofers. I ran this sub nearly wide open and the cabinet movement was much lower than a classic BR box (minus the shoddy, rattling box construction).
Anyway, here is a snapshot of our DSP settings along with some raw measured responses, with no EQ applied.
DSP: Marani
Measurement Mic: Dayton UMM-6
Software: FuzzMeasure V. 4.2.2 (39) on MacOS
The RS430 are pretty fun drivers so far. We put a lot of power through them last night and they nearly rattled our OSB prototype box to pieces. I could only get a couple of attachment screws into one of the drivers and I was genuinely worried about the woofer tearing out the wood. Our next design iteration will be ¾ BB ply with lots of bracing, threaded inserts and dado construction. We wanted to push them a little harder but the prototype box sounded like a 1994 Honda Civic with 7 million miles on it. I attached some test results below.
We are still refining the port tuning and will do some more tests soon. It's our first time working with this configuration so there is still a lot of trial and error. We started way oversized and have been removing layers of foam as we test. Does anyone have advice on modeling Aero-ports with extreme flare rates (NFR 0.5+) in WinISD or Hornresp? Our target is F3 @ ~40Hz, and then with some port extenders a target of F3 ~30Hz. We are still missing the mark on our port tunings so our next design move is to recut the flares and add some port length.
We will also keep you updated on how the results of using DSP PEQ low/high shelves with shallow slope BW crossovers -instead of steep crossovers- for the high pass filter works out. The goal is to increase LF output without greatly increasing group delay. I am trying to get accurate readings on group delay using FuzzMeasure, but I think the overall latency of the Marani DSP makes it a little difficult to understand the results.
So far I really like the V-Opposed woofers. I ran this sub nearly wide open and the cabinet movement was much lower than a classic BR box (minus the shoddy, rattling box construction).
Anyway, here is a snapshot of our DSP settings along with some raw measured responses, with no EQ applied.
DSP: Marani
Measurement Mic: Dayton UMM-6
Software: FuzzMeasure V. 4.2.2 (39) on MacOS
Attachments
I will post some results when we redo the ports on this enclosure.
I have REW, so I can also take some measurements using that, though I usually prefer FuzzMeausre just because it's so simple to use.
Once we are happy with our port tuning and box volume we will start on our final construction run.
As far as testing goes, how can I tell how much voltage we are putting into these drivers?
The amp configuration is a Pasacal S-Pro2 amp module in BTL mode with a BLT extension module per driver. Theoretically, this is ~900W into 8Ohms, though on 120V power it comes in a bit lower. I am sure real-world power into each driver is lower than the spec sheet.
I have REW, so I can also take some measurements using that, though I usually prefer FuzzMeausre just because it's so simple to use.
Once we are happy with our port tuning and box volume we will start on our final construction run.
As far as testing goes, how can I tell how much voltage we are putting into these drivers?
The amp configuration is a Pasacal S-Pro2 amp module in BTL mode with a BLT extension module per driver. Theoretically, this is ~900W into 8Ohms, though on 120V power it comes in a bit lower. I am sure real-world power into each driver is lower than the spec sheet.
The ScanSpeak 32W/4878T00 would have a 36mm long coil - +-14mm Xmax. Same price.
12RS430 only has 2,5" coil diameter, 30mm length and 8mm gap -> +-11mm (still impressive!) Most PA companies have a lot of "phantasie" in their Xmax definitions ... as much as half the gap length. Eminence Xmax is for sure also not correct. B&C 12PLB100 has 10mm gap and 23mm coil -> 6,5mm!
SB34NRXL75-8 is one of my favourites. 3" coil, very well ventilated. Good sensitivity for a HiFi chassis with 8R and low Fs. About 300,-
+-10mm, 22Hz, Mms 93g.
What are the shipping rates from France?
https://en.toutlehautparleur.com/speaker-faitalpro-12rs430-8-ohm-12-inch.html
log in for actual price
Had to create account and login to get a good price. Price is124 euro per speaker, 25 for using a CC, and 216 shipping. Total in USD is 792.53, so savings of 395 USD. Thanks for the tip duvixan, I have speakers coming! Will be awhile though, they only had 3 in stock and I need 4. I'm good with that though, 800 bucks is plenty enough. Should be considerable upgrade for these speakers.