1.78” can’t be right. The dust cap is only about 1/4 recessed, which is probably a good average depth. Tweeter probably sticks out as much. So probably the average difference is on the order of 1/2 in. 1” max. But I’m not really following this bit about how to account for the difference. Are you introducing a phase shift?
Yeah, it didn’t make any sense to me to not flip the tweeter. Phase seemed reasonable after that, I think? And frequency hole evened out.
I will admit, though, that my setup is a tad bright...
Yeah, for stuff like this, once I feel committed to it, gotta jump on it. Hope it gets back soon. I don’t recall seeing other ways to get it, and it just seems like the best DIY deal out there.
Hi guys. Here i have a dilema. I got the minidsp umik1 and rew. I placed speaker midway from floor to ceiling and wall to wall left and right. Took measurements at 1meter and 1 ft. In both cases when i set the time window from 1ms to 4 ms the frequency is cut to 200hz aprox (no low frequency bellow 200). 38hz starts showing at about 20-38 ms. Is this normal?
ekbrus: that looks amazing! Much better than my low-budget paint job.
I took a step back to use my calibrated mic and REW for the white-noise generator as well as for recording. (It is a bit fiddly to get things set up.) Hopefully this is more accurate than my previous attempts, although, it is not ideal, as the speaker sits in a rack (the normal location for it, listening to it currently). I guess I need to play with the REW settings and get a better range. Shown like this, it doesn't seem unusually peaky in the treble? Still sounds a tad bright, but depends on the source.
I took a step back to use my calibrated mic and REW for the white-noise generator as well as for recording. (It is a bit fiddly to get things set up.) Hopefully this is more accurate than my previous attempts, although, it is not ideal, as the speaker sits in a rack (the normal location for it, listening to it currently). I guess I need to play with the REW settings and get a better range. Shown like this, it doesn't seem unusually peaky in the treble? Still sounds a tad bright, but depends on the source.
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made from floor repair waste, from the costs only glue. I did it for the first time.
many many thin layers of inexpensive varnish and polishing.
there was no goal to make it beautiful.
the sound is bright.
in this picture, the next step.
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Hi folks,
I know it's an old thread but it was the latest Hivi 2.2A thread I could find online - hoping I can get some answers here.
I've had the 2.2a's for about 3 years now and I love them, but after a recent move one of the woofers is not working any more. Tweeter works normally but no sound from woofer. I opened the cabinet and tested the Resistance with a multimeter, which was 6.5 ohm. It's not that far from the rated 8ohm. I tested the other wires on the PCB and they all seemed fine. Capacitors were harder to test, but I took them out, drained them and tested the resistance and it seemed to move/charge so not sure. It's not the cable or receiver, I've tested those.
Any ideas/feedback would be greatly appreciated. Cheers
I know it's an old thread but it was the latest Hivi 2.2A thread I could find online - hoping I can get some answers here.
I've had the 2.2a's for about 3 years now and I love them, but after a recent move one of the woofers is not working any more. Tweeter works normally but no sound from woofer. I opened the cabinet and tested the Resistance with a multimeter, which was 6.5 ohm. It's not that far from the rated 8ohm. I tested the other wires on the PCB and they all seemed fine. Capacitors were harder to test, but I took them out, drained them and tested the resistance and it seemed to move/charge so not sure. It's not the cable or receiver, I've tested those.
Any ideas/feedback would be greatly appreciated. Cheers
I would think you could simply remove the woofer and connect it directly to an amp and play music, eliminating the crossover and wiring entirely. Just to see if you get any sound out of it at all.
The measured resistance of 6.5 is probably fine, as wolf_teeth says, so yeah, if it's not an electrical problem, maybe physical?
Either way, you've got a couple of more things you can try to narrow it down further.
The measured resistance of 6.5 is probably fine, as wolf_teeth says, so yeah, if it's not an electrical problem, maybe physical?
Either way, you've got a couple of more things you can try to narrow it down further.
If that cone won't move, it's toast. Likely that the magnet shifted and locked up the coil, Or it broke off and there is no drive to the coil, or there is a misalignment preventing movement somehow like the frame broke. Lastly, it's possible the coil is atop the gap, and stuck in a forward position.
If you have continuity from the input post to the woofer positive terminal, then the xover is not to blame barring the lowpass cap being faulty and shorted. If you remove the woofer and get continuity at the input positive and negative posts, then that cap is bad. There should be no connection through the xover from post to post without a connected driver. The caps prevent this in 99% of correctly made/used parallel networks.
If the xover checks out, and your dcr and electrical tests out okay, the above are what would physically keep the woofer from playing. If you pulled the woofer to check these things, i am thinking the frame and magnet are still intact or you would have noticed it looked off in some way.
If you have continuity from the input post to the woofer positive terminal, then the xover is not to blame barring the lowpass cap being faulty and shorted. If you remove the woofer and get continuity at the input positive and negative posts, then that cap is bad. There should be no connection through the xover from post to post without a connected driver. The caps prevent this in 99% of correctly made/used parallel networks.
If the xover checks out, and your dcr and electrical tests out okay, the above are what would physically keep the woofer from playing. If you pulled the woofer to check these things, i am thinking the frame and magnet are still intact or you would have noticed it looked off in some way.
Hello,
Thank you for this thread. I've ordered a HiVi kit, and am putting together an order for crossover parts. So far I have:
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/sidewinder-16-awg/sidewinder-2.5-mh-air-core-inductor-16-awg/
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/solen-capacitors/solen-4-mfd-fast-cap-400v/
I would like to do the resistors, but I can only find the 1.5 ohm Mills: https://www.parts-express.com/Mills-1.5-Ohm-12W-Non-Inductive-Resistor-005-1.5?quantity=2
I'm not seeing the 6.8 in the Mills. That's a Danny tip, I don't know enough to design on my own. Has anyone done the resistors or the other capacitor? I would appreciate parts recommendations from anyone. Thanks again!
Thank you for this thread. I've ordered a HiVi kit, and am putting together an order for crossover parts. So far I have:
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/sidewinder-16-awg/sidewinder-2.5-mh-air-core-inductor-16-awg/
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/solen-capacitors/solen-4-mfd-fast-cap-400v/
I would like to do the resistors, but I can only find the 1.5 ohm Mills: https://www.parts-express.com/Mills-1.5-Ohm-12W-Non-Inductive-Resistor-005-1.5?quantity=2
I'm not seeing the 6.8 in the Mills. That's a Danny tip, I don't know enough to design on my own. Has anyone done the resistors or the other capacitor? I would appreciate parts recommendations from anyone. Thanks again!
I used that 16AWG 2.5 inductor, but for the cap replacement, I used a 4.7mfd Solen, per the 2.2SE diagram. Not sure what a 4.0 cap is going to do -- dampen the lower treble a bit by raising the crossover point? I assume this is an error, if you're trying to follow the 2.2SE crossover.
Yeah, I noticed the lack of fancy resistors in that size. I just used the stock parts for the resistors. I've read that there's not an audible problem with sand-cast resistors, but you could probably look for other distributors and find something. It just will cost more with additional shipping. Part of the reason I went with a kit is wanting to keep the cost down, so gotta draw the line somewhere!
Oh, and I used the stock cap for the other one -- 8.0. It looks fine to me, and only slightly off from the specs used in the 2.2SE diagram, so I decided it was fine. If money were no object, you could try to find something closer to that specified in the 2.2 SE, if desired.
I did end up getting the 4.7 based on one of your older comments, but a Jantzon Z Standard Cap, and also ordered the 8.2. Also I cheaped out and went with 18 AWG 0.15mH inductor. I was tempted to get the HiVi 3.1. I got impatient and ordered the 2.2 though, along with these parts. I should have slept on it though, because I ordered a 1.6 mills resistor (and a 6.8) from Sonic Craft....and forgot that I linked the 1.5 mills I found.
Not sure what exactly do you mean by “cheaped out”, but 0,15 mH is not what you need for these speakers. I guess you’re trying to use it across the tweeter, but the correct value that you need there is 0,35 mH…
Anyhow, I hope you haven’t finished building the speakers yet, because there are certain things that I would like to add to this topic. I’ll post again later today with some updates.
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Hello again everyone,
It’s been a while since I started this thread and after all this time there are certain things and updates about the speakers that I’d like to share with you. As you probably remember from my original post, I suggested the crossover modification based on the (allegedly) original Swans D2.1SE crossover design. Additionally, I introduced two more networks - a notch filter and an impedance compensation for the tweeter, as well as a slightly higher value of the coil for the low-pass filter (2,7 instead of 2,6 mH).
However, to cut the long story short, I ended up using the original D2.1SE design using 2,5 mH coil and since I really like the sound of these speakers I’ve built another (better looking) pair with 2,6 mH inductor and some others small changes. I still insist that using the stock crossover provided with the speaker kit is a terrible idea which is limiting thee speakers to live up to their full potential.
So, what have changed you might ask. Well, a lot of things. First of all, I discovered that the test amplifier (Tangent Ampster BT II) which I was using back then has a terrible shelf-filter-like elevated frequency response, adding some 3 dB to the top end. Not good, especially when using it to measure speakers. The FR measurement which I provided in my second post is not taken with this amplifier, just so you know. On top of the +2 dB that the Q1R is inherently producing at around 18-20 KHz it seemed like a good idea to tackle this with an impedance compensation (CR) network, hence the 1,5 uF capacitor and the 6,8 ohm resistor across the tweeter. In the light of this discovery (about the amplifier), it might prove futile using this network, but there’s definitely nothing wrong with it either. As for the second (LCR) network which I also suggested, again nothing wrong, but you may as well skip it. The audible benefits of using these two networks are hardly noticeable, unless you are planning on using the speakers as near-field monitors toed-in and on axis with your ears.
The amplifier misadventure was not finished yet, though. After failing twice within just one year my 3 years old main amplifier I decided to get rid of it a bought a new one. I noticed that with the new amp my speakers sounded somehow lean if you know what I mean. After a couple of months I opened them and took out the crossover to examine it. To my surprise I found out that the inductor in the low-pass filter was far from its rated value of 2,7 mH. It was around 2,85 instead. Unwinding the coil was not an option as everything was glued to the board and I had to build a new crossover again. This time I decided to keep it simple and to stick to the D2.1SE crossover design, without anything else. I couldn’t find a 2,6 mH coil as it is supposed to be, but I sourced one which is 2,5 mH and even managed to use the original board from the kit crossover (see the picture below). That was a noticeable improvement and now there is no sign of the lean sound I was experiencing earlier.
Unfortunately, I can’t measure the frequency response, because currently I don’t have my measuring equipment, but I hope in foreseeable future to be able to do it and I’ll post it here. For now, I can only confirm from my listening experience that the D2.1SE crossover is just fine, even with 2.5 mH inductor in the low-pass filter. And one more thing as an observation - I recommend using a powerful class D amp for these speakers. It gives better control in the bass.
It’s been a while since I started this thread and after all this time there are certain things and updates about the speakers that I’d like to share with you. As you probably remember from my original post, I suggested the crossover modification based on the (allegedly) original Swans D2.1SE crossover design. Additionally, I introduced two more networks - a notch filter and an impedance compensation for the tweeter, as well as a slightly higher value of the coil for the low-pass filter (2,7 instead of 2,6 mH).
However, to cut the long story short, I ended up using the original D2.1SE design using 2,5 mH coil and since I really like the sound of these speakers I’ve built another (better looking) pair with 2,6 mH inductor and some others small changes. I still insist that using the stock crossover provided with the speaker kit is a terrible idea which is limiting thee speakers to live up to their full potential.
So, what have changed you might ask. Well, a lot of things. First of all, I discovered that the test amplifier (Tangent Ampster BT II) which I was using back then has a terrible shelf-filter-like elevated frequency response, adding some 3 dB to the top end. Not good, especially when using it to measure speakers. The FR measurement which I provided in my second post is not taken with this amplifier, just so you know. On top of the +2 dB that the Q1R is inherently producing at around 18-20 KHz it seemed like a good idea to tackle this with an impedance compensation (CR) network, hence the 1,5 uF capacitor and the 6,8 ohm resistor across the tweeter. In the light of this discovery (about the amplifier), it might prove futile using this network, but there’s definitely nothing wrong with it either. As for the second (LCR) network which I also suggested, again nothing wrong, but you may as well skip it. The audible benefits of using these two networks are hardly noticeable, unless you are planning on using the speakers as near-field monitors toed-in and on axis with your ears.
The amplifier misadventure was not finished yet, though. After failing twice within just one year my 3 years old main amplifier I decided to get rid of it a bought a new one. I noticed that with the new amp my speakers sounded somehow lean if you know what I mean. After a couple of months I opened them and took out the crossover to examine it. To my surprise I found out that the inductor in the low-pass filter was far from its rated value of 2,7 mH. It was around 2,85 instead. Unwinding the coil was not an option as everything was glued to the board and I had to build a new crossover again. This time I decided to keep it simple and to stick to the D2.1SE crossover design, without anything else. I couldn’t find a 2,6 mH coil as it is supposed to be, but I sourced one which is 2,5 mH and even managed to use the original board from the kit crossover (see the picture below). That was a noticeable improvement and now there is no sign of the lean sound I was experiencing earlier.
Unfortunately, I can’t measure the frequency response, because currently I don’t have my measuring equipment, but I hope in foreseeable future to be able to do it and I’ll post it here. For now, I can only confirm from my listening experience that the D2.1SE crossover is just fine, even with 2.5 mH inductor in the low-pass filter. And one more thing as an observation - I recommend using a powerful class D amp for these speakers. It gives better control in the bass.
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I just was laying out the crossover, and noticed I got the wrong part. I came here to see where I messed up, and am so glad you replied. I will reorder, along with some changes you made.