The tubes look really great. I like the focusing since it works fine in one of my rooms, too. 3D printing is very easy, but maybe not optimal way of manufacturing. The two layer tubes are a great idea. Once I am happy with a printed prototype, I will try to make some nicer ones, too. Maybe CNC'd out of hardwood or layered from circles would work as well.
Hi Pelanj,
the plastic part of the mid tube is 8 mm.
Note that this is a layered plastic; solid single-material was not adequate.
Even the layered version isn't resonance free; hence the 2 mm aluminium encasing.
I use this tube from 500 Hz upwards but my audio-collegue from 300 Hz; no problem.
He uses a 2" compression driver with phenolic daphragm with much succes.
Regards,
Reinout
the plastic part of the mid tube is 8 mm.
Note that this is a layered plastic; solid single-material was not adequate.
Even the layered version isn't resonance free; hence the 2 mm aluminium encasing.
I use this tube from 500 Hz upwards but my audio-collegue from 300 Hz; no problem.
He uses a 2" compression driver with phenolic daphragm with much succes.
Regards,
Reinout
Good afternoon again Pelanj,
that 2" K-tube has a length of 48 cm. So around 1:10. Works.
The original (1") K-tube is only 13,2 cm ( around 1:5) and this spreads too much for my liking (introducing too many room reflections).
My next 1" will be around more in the direction of 1:10 to get the dispersion even.
And of course someone can state that room reflections can be taken care by proper acoustic measures. But not in my situation....so i am looking for a more beaming K-tube which gives me a nice sweetspot (no single seat ....) but supress funny frequencies floating around.
That K-tube has so many variables ....just amazing. You can tweak it to YOUR situation. And i think everybody is already at a level surpassing MediaMarkt-stuff so we are audio afficianados looking for their personal optimal given the location and preferences.
My CNC-work is ordered (1" K-tube ; 1:9 ratio ; aluminium for starters ; variable wall thicknesses ; baseplate so it can fit my "aiming construction"). I think this will take some time but of course pictures & impressions will be posted.
Regards,
Reinout
that 2" K-tube has a length of 48 cm. So around 1:10. Works.
The original (1") K-tube is only 13,2 cm ( around 1:5) and this spreads too much for my liking (introducing too many room reflections).
My next 1" will be around more in the direction of 1:10 to get the dispersion even.
And of course someone can state that room reflections can be taken care by proper acoustic measures. But not in my situation....so i am looking for a more beaming K-tube which gives me a nice sweetspot (no single seat ....) but supress funny frequencies floating around.
That K-tube has so many variables ....just amazing. You can tweak it to YOUR situation. And i think everybody is already at a level surpassing MediaMarkt-stuff so we are audio afficianados looking for their personal optimal given the location and preferences.
My CNC-work is ordered (1" K-tube ; 1:9 ratio ; aluminium for starters ; variable wall thicknesses ; baseplate so it can fit my "aiming construction"). I think this will take some time but of course pictures & impressions will be posted.
Regards,
Reinout
Not to disturb this thread but has anyone ever recognized this concept of traditional horn plus K-tube as coax arrangement? Looks at least interesting to have both HF drivers in the same plane. But the first part of the tube seems to be completely closed.
Vorschau HIGH END 2012 - Messebericht HIGH END 2011 - Faerber Acoustics - Frank-Landmesser.de
Vorschau HIGH END 2012 - Messebericht HIGH END 2011 - Faerber Acoustics - Frank-Landmesser.de
I did a bit of experimentation here: Combining a 2" exit driver with a HF unit as a point source. Is it possible?
I need to get back to this with a better horn and drivers.
I need to get back to this with a better horn and drivers.
I piddled with a long extension but my adapter had the stub tube jammed down and no all the way to the driver's exit so could not tell if a response glitch from the combo was from the extension - or from the cavity formed by the bad fit of pipe to 2 bolt to 1 3/8" adapter.
FWIW i don't believe the extensions add much useful low end extension on a 1 inch tube but really can't say for sure.
IMO the X15 type is a great way to build a good K.
https://i.imgur.com/ygbbsVb.jpg
Karlson type klam playing a bit of Nokie Edwards and Adventure "Autumn Leaves" speaker demo - YouTube
FWIW i don't believe the extensions add much useful low end extension on a 1 inch tube but really can't say for sure.
IMO the X15 type is a great way to build a good K.
https://i.imgur.com/ygbbsVb.jpg
Karlson type klam playing a bit of Nokie Edwards and Adventure "Autumn Leaves" speaker demo - YouTube
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Dear ReinoutDV
speaking of long aspect K-tubes, would you know anything about this tube whose blurry image I nabbed some time ago?
The resolution is horrible - what driver might that be?
https://i.imgur.com/rFDEZAJ.jpg
Best wishes,
Freddy
speaking of long aspect K-tubes, would you know anything about this tube whose blurry image I nabbed some time ago?
The resolution is horrible - what driver might that be?
https://i.imgur.com/rFDEZAJ.jpg
Best wishes,
Freddy
ReinoutdV, you set me up with yet another study object 
I know of Karlsson systems for a long time and have experienced Karlsson subs in small disco's long time ago, but in one way or another, the principle faded away from my memory. I really like the way you implement it. I have another diy project popping up in my brain....
I know of Karlsson systems for a long time and have experienced Karlsson subs in small disco's long time ago, but in one way or another, the principle faded away from my memory. I really like the way you implement it. I have another diy project popping up in my brain....
Hi ReinoutDV
what have you observed so far from evaluations of the long aspect K-tube with regards to the vertical and horizontal planes of the sound-field when the tube is tilted upwards to a preferred angle ?
What seems to be the major differences between the way the long tube portrays voices, cymbals, violin, piano versus tubes the length of the Transylvania product ?
FWIW I'm still drawn to using Karlson-type bass couplers rather than bass reflex and have heard what I feel as overall improvement vs the same driver in a direst radiator. (sometimes an aperture must be empirically adjusted for best result as a mic can't discern any significant response difference)
Best Regards,
Freddy
what have you observed so far from evaluations of the long aspect K-tube with regards to the vertical and horizontal planes of the sound-field when the tube is tilted upwards to a preferred angle ?
What seems to be the major differences between the way the long tube portrays voices, cymbals, violin, piano versus tubes the length of the Transylvania product ?
FWIW I'm still drawn to using Karlson-type bass couplers rather than bass reflex and have heard what I feel as overall improvement vs the same driver in a direst radiator. (sometimes an aperture must be empirically adjusted for best result as a mic can't discern any significant response difference)
Best Regards,
Freddy
Good afternoon Freddy,
the vertical dispersion pattern is a slice with an angle of around 20 degrees.
With a proper set up you can aim that to your preferred listening position.
There is no real difference with the longer/shorter K-tube.
The horizontal dispersion pattern is the big difference between the shorter/longer K-tube.
The longer the K-tube;; the more focussed (= less horizontal coverage). In my room i have serious problems with side-reflections so i like a somewhat more long K-tube in order not to be distracted by bouncing waves from the side.
In other cicumstances the shorter ("original") length of that K-tube will suffice and give you a a larger sweet-zone (instead of a sweet-spot).
I didn't notice quality differences in instruments/permormance.
Of course you have to balance out your system so that the full result of all drivers convene at your listining position.
Regards, Reinout
(no real progres here; house renovation underway.....)
the vertical dispersion pattern is a slice with an angle of around 20 degrees.
With a proper set up you can aim that to your preferred listening position.
There is no real difference with the longer/shorter K-tube.
The horizontal dispersion pattern is the big difference between the shorter/longer K-tube.
The longer the K-tube;; the more focussed (= less horizontal coverage). In my room i have serious problems with side-reflections so i like a somewhat more long K-tube in order not to be distracted by bouncing waves from the side.
In other cicumstances the shorter ("original") length of that K-tube will suffice and give you a a larger sweet-zone (instead of a sweet-spot).
I didn't notice quality differences in instruments/permormance.
Of course you have to balance out your system so that the full result of all drivers convene at your listining position.
Regards, Reinout
(no real progres here; house renovation underway.....)
Thanks, interesting to read of your findings with longer K-Tubes vs shorter ones. I should ask if you are using a single cut away K-Tube or a double cutaway version. I use a double cutaway with the slot oriented vertically and have good results with short 1/4 wave tubed set at the drivers primary resonance or first impedance peak (when supplied by the maker in their impedance curve of the compression driver).
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Thanks Reinout.
One thing among many I did not investigate, was to see if tubes shorter than Transylvania's product can be successful for "helper"/"super" tweeter use.
Alan Weiss's mini-klam may work for high crossover frequencies, but its best placed higher than the listener if its slot is "down"as a fair amount of energy is directed perpendicular to the aperture (and, oddly not much above the device).
Weiss patent (expired)
https://i.imgur.com/j889M7A.png
Best wishes,
Freddy
One thing among many I did not investigate, was to see if tubes shorter than Transylvania's product can be successful for "helper"/"super" tweeter use.
Alan Weiss's mini-klam may work for high crossover frequencies, but its best placed higher than the listener if its slot is "down"as a fair amount of energy is directed perpendicular to the aperture (and, oddly not much above the device).
Weiss patent (expired)
https://i.imgur.com/j889M7A.png
Best wishes,
Freddy
Hi ReinoutdV,
Amazing work on all the K-Tubes! I'm no stranger to them myself, having used a pair of TPC 1" units for a few years, though I have since sold them. I've also made them out of PVC and brass, the latter went to freddi. I found the brass tubes to have a certain ring, so I damped them roughly halfway with a tight fitting rubber o-ring, which somewhat helped. The TPC casting is quite inert an uncoloured IMO.
I mostly agree with what you noted in this thread about their performance. I used BMS 4550 down to almost 1kHz on the TPC. I hear TPC originally used Altec and Emilar drivers down to 500Hz (!) on them. I found they required very little to no EQ. I did not listen on-axis but either aimed up or down, perhaps 10-15 degrees or thereabout.
I've also built and used Karlson enclosures for mid-bass and fullrange duty, 5", 8" and 12" units, with varying degrees of success.
I haven't been very active DIY'ing or on this forum lately, but got an itch as of late to do something. Only now having come across this thread does fan the flame.
Here's a summary of my adventures with Karlson I posted 4 years ago.
My experience with Karlson enclosures
freddi - that 8" mid-K you had built and posted a few pages earlier, got any details on it? The external form-factor is similar to the mini-SK8 I proposed for pro 8" midbass or coax, but that I never got around to build.
Amazing work on all the K-Tubes! I'm no stranger to them myself, having used a pair of TPC 1" units for a few years, though I have since sold them. I've also made them out of PVC and brass, the latter went to freddi. I found the brass tubes to have a certain ring, so I damped them roughly halfway with a tight fitting rubber o-ring, which somewhat helped. The TPC casting is quite inert an uncoloured IMO.
I mostly agree with what you noted in this thread about their performance. I used BMS 4550 down to almost 1kHz on the TPC. I hear TPC originally used Altec and Emilar drivers down to 500Hz (!) on them. I found they required very little to no EQ. I did not listen on-axis but either aimed up or down, perhaps 10-15 degrees or thereabout.
I've also built and used Karlson enclosures for mid-bass and fullrange duty, 5", 8" and 12" units, with varying degrees of success.
I haven't been very active DIY'ing or on this forum lately, but got an itch as of late to do something. Only now having come across this thread does fan the flame.
Here's a summary of my adventures with Karlson I posted 4 years ago.
My experience with Karlson enclosures
freddi - that 8" mid-K you had built and posted a few pages earlier, got any details on it? The external form-factor is similar to the mini-SK8 I proposed for pro 8" midbass or coax, but that I never got around to build.
House renovation finally done. All frames and windows have been exchanged so it was cold the last week in a house without glass....
Luckily there was no rain as all stuff was quite exposed; also the audio set.
So the set was totally stripped down; perfect timing for a grand overhaul:
Happy with the result. Snappy drivers and a natural performance.
I had to tilt the Karlson's (mid and high) from 45 degrees to a more direct pointed 35 degree to get the optimum sound. Tilting it more had a "more in your face" presentation. Still funny to see/hear that tilting the drivers/K-tubes bring such an effect. This is all personal taste !
Still waiting for the CNC made K-tubes.......COVID19 doesn't help.
In the meantime i can enjoy the current set and find out the optimal tube combo in the tweeter amp.
A wonderfull 2022 to all.
Regards,
Reinout
Luckily there was no rain as all stuff was quite exposed; also the audio set.
So the set was totally stripped down; perfect timing for a grand overhaul:
- new cabling (both signal and the power lines)
- dedicated Rohde & Schwarz power supplies for each field coil. So i have a stack of these next to each speaker. Stable stuff !
- running in of first tweeter-amp tube combo (4P1L and ED111 tubes)
- running in of external volume control in preamp. The original attenuators were decades old from R&S measurement gear and i could here the switching noises. So i opted for a 2 GHz-solution by Weinschel. Never meant for this purpose but it works flawless
Happy with the result. Snappy drivers and a natural performance.
I had to tilt the Karlson's (mid and high) from 45 degrees to a more direct pointed 35 degree to get the optimum sound. Tilting it more had a "more in your face" presentation. Still funny to see/hear that tilting the drivers/K-tubes bring such an effect. This is all personal taste !
Still waiting for the CNC made K-tubes.......COVID19 doesn't help.
In the meantime i can enjoy the current set and find out the optimal tube combo in the tweeter amp.
A wonderfull 2022 to all.
Regards,
Reinout
