Good morning DIYaudio-forum,
for demo-purposes i made a transportable loudspeakersystem out of a Supravox 285GMF (in an open baffle) and a FaitalPro HF10AK (combined with an original "The Tube" K-tube).
Surprising deep reaching and snappy bass, good soundstage and very usefull sensitivity. I used it at several national audio-gatherings (pre-Corona times....) but also several times at the European Triode festival where it was coupled to small and large amplifiers in big rooms.
Some pictures included including an ETF-picture where it was hooked to a GM-100 amp an a large room: great results.
It is that succesfull that it lead our audio-group started to deepdive into those K-tubes.
Regards,
Reinout
for demo-purposes i made a transportable loudspeakersystem out of a Supravox 285GMF (in an open baffle) and a FaitalPro HF10AK (combined with an original "The Tube" K-tube).
Surprising deep reaching and snappy bass, good soundstage and very usefull sensitivity. I used it at several national audio-gatherings (pre-Corona times....) but also several times at the European Triode festival where it was coupled to small and large amplifiers in big rooms.
Some pictures included including an ETF-picture where it was hooked to a GM-100 amp an a large room: great results.
It is that succesfull that it lead our audio-group started to deepdive into those K-tubes.
Regards,
Reinout
Attachments
Fieldcoil + K-tube part 2
Our group first started with 3D-printing (using the link on this forum), did a lot of experiments with materials and also with the size of that K-tube. Normally the K-tube can be used from 1,2 kHz upwards but with a supersized 2" K-tube you can go much deeper !
So i started with a dedicated combination of fieldcoils (love them.....) and K-tubes for a new speakerproject. Not for demo-purposes but for my home audio-system.
Started with the woodwork for the openbaffle. 40 mm multiplex can control the 15" Fertin 38EX woofer.
I added already the option at the back to insert some woolen vilt if needed later.
Our group first started with 3D-printing (using the link on this forum), did a lot of experiments with materials and also with the size of that K-tube. Normally the K-tube can be used from 1,2 kHz upwards but with a supersized 2" K-tube you can go much deeper !
So i started with a dedicated combination of fieldcoils (love them.....) and K-tubes for a new speakerproject. Not for demo-purposes but for my home audio-system.
Started with the woodwork for the openbaffle. 40 mm multiplex can control the 15" Fertin 38EX woofer.
I added already the option at the back to insert some woolen vilt if needed later.
Attachments
Fieldcoil + K-tube part 3
The units involved:
- Fertin 38EX for low
- Fostex D200a for mid
- Von Langa A4000 for high
The Fertin and Von Langa are fieldcoils so need dedicated power supplies. The Fostex is a permanent magnet (alnico) and it weighs the same as the Fertin woofer (14 kg !). For the mounting of that driver + 2" K-tube (combined 20 kg) i first have to make those K-tube frames in metal. For the 1" K-tube and 6 kg Von Langa i trust a 15 mm plastic frame.....but for 20 kg not. So i first build a 2-way system (full fieldcoil !) and the Fostex wil be added later.
On top of the woodwork of the open baffle i added a construction baseplate. Fixing the K-tube frames becomes easy after that and alligning them also.
In one of the pictures you will see the Fostex drivers (insamely large !) with the 1" and 2" K-tubes in comparison.
The diaphragm of the Von Langa is like the classic Altec 808.
The diaphragm of the Fostex is ceramic coated (in order to surpress nasty metal ringing). It is stricly a midrange with optimal use from 400 Hz to 5 kHz.
The units involved:
- Fertin 38EX for low
- Fostex D200a for mid
- Von Langa A4000 for high
The Fertin and Von Langa are fieldcoils so need dedicated power supplies. The Fostex is a permanent magnet (alnico) and it weighs the same as the Fertin woofer (14 kg !). For the mounting of that driver + 2" K-tube (combined 20 kg) i first have to make those K-tube frames in metal. For the 1" K-tube and 6 kg Von Langa i trust a 15 mm plastic frame.....but for 20 kg not. So i first build a 2-way system (full fieldcoil !) and the Fostex wil be added later.
On top of the woodwork of the open baffle i added a construction baseplate. Fixing the K-tube frames becomes easy after that and alligning them also.
In one of the pictures you will see the Fostex drivers (insamely large !) with the 1" and 2" K-tubes in comparison.
The diaphragm of the Von Langa is like the classic Altec 808.
The diaphragm of the Fostex is ceramic coated (in order to surpress nasty metal ringing). It is stricly a midrange with optimal use from 400 Hz to 5 kHz.
Attachments
Fieldcoil + K-tube part 4
And now it's running in a 2 way system.
Very happy with the result !
Of course that 15" will move air but this is not boomy at all.
No shocking sharp nastiness from the Von Langa but details by the truckload and good dispersion too !
At this moment i use a simple Behringer as active crossover. It does work but is certainly NOT the final solution. But this gives me the option to find out the correct crossover frequencies. At this moment the Fertin + Von Langa give a nice result when crossed at around 2K but this will be totally different when the Fostex is added.
Just thinking out loud, looking at the driver-data and earlier speakers i wouldn't be surprised that the Fertin/Fostex crossing will be around 500 Hz and the Fostex/Von Langa somewhere around 4 kHz.
My plan is to have an active crossover for that 500 Hz and to do the 4kHz passive.
Currently i feed the Fertin with my 35TG amp (8 watt) and the Von Langa with the 6C45 SPUD (2,6 Watt). More then enough. That 6C45 will drive the Fostex later on and for the Von Langa i have to come up with a totally new amp.
Hurray ! Another interesting project ! Initial thoughts are already there for making an outragious 1 watt amp for 4 kHz upwards. That design-criterium makes it possible to go for "funny" solutions not to be taken in a fullrange-design. I will report on that project seperately.
In the meantime i enjoy this fieldcoil + K-tube 2 way awaiting the metalwork to finish. Then i can insert the Fostex for a 3 way. I'm pretty sure i can hussle up a fully acceptable temporarily amp for the time being.
Regards,
Reinout
And now it's running in a 2 way system.
Very happy with the result !
Of course that 15" will move air but this is not boomy at all.
No shocking sharp nastiness from the Von Langa but details by the truckload and good dispersion too !
At this moment i use a simple Behringer as active crossover. It does work but is certainly NOT the final solution. But this gives me the option to find out the correct crossover frequencies. At this moment the Fertin + Von Langa give a nice result when crossed at around 2K but this will be totally different when the Fostex is added.
Just thinking out loud, looking at the driver-data and earlier speakers i wouldn't be surprised that the Fertin/Fostex crossing will be around 500 Hz and the Fostex/Von Langa somewhere around 4 kHz.
My plan is to have an active crossover for that 500 Hz and to do the 4kHz passive.
Currently i feed the Fertin with my 35TG amp (8 watt) and the Von Langa with the 6C45 SPUD (2,6 Watt). More then enough. That 6C45 will drive the Fostex later on and for the Von Langa i have to come up with a totally new amp.
Hurray ! Another interesting project ! Initial thoughts are already there for making an outragious 1 watt amp for 4 kHz upwards. That design-criterium makes it possible to go for "funny" solutions not to be taken in a fullrange-design. I will report on that project seperately.
In the meantime i enjoy this fieldcoil + K-tube 2 way awaiting the metalwork to finish. Then i can insert the Fostex for a 3 way. I'm pretty sure i can hussle up a fully acceptable temporarily amp for the time being.
Regards,
Reinout
Good morning Bas,
no secrets with the crossover.
As stated earlier: currently i use a Behringer. It works but i definetely need something analog and not DSP-invested solution. It's a extremely useful tool especially given that amazing low price. But it is not audio that i'm looking for.
My way forward is an active crossover in the low frequencies and passive crossovers (simple 1st order) for the 4kHz(ish).
For my 2" experiments "my" audiogroup already donated other 2" compression drivers to listen to. Everybody is interested in the outcome.
See at the enclosed picture at the base of the turntable......
Regards,
Reinout
(noted your FaitalPro HF10AK trials: an amazing performer that overperforms at that price-level. You have to invest serious money to go better)
no secrets with the crossover.
As stated earlier: currently i use a Behringer. It works but i definetely need something analog and not DSP-invested solution. It's a extremely useful tool especially given that amazing low price. But it is not audio that i'm looking for.
My way forward is an active crossover in the low frequencies and passive crossovers (simple 1st order) for the 4kHz(ish).
For my 2" experiments "my" audiogroup already donated other 2" compression drivers to listen to. Everybody is interested in the outcome.
See at the enclosed picture at the base of the turntable......
Regards,
Reinout
(noted your FaitalPro HF10AK trials: an amazing performer that overperforms at that price-level. You have to invest serious money to go better)
Attachments
Good afternoon Mattes,
the Feastrex D9NF drivers were sold a couple of months ago.
Not because they are bad; on the contrary !! These beauties gave a wonderful refined sound BUT.......i couldn't make any progress with that speakersystem. And part of the audiohobby is building/tinkering. So an audio-enthousiast approached me some time ago and we came to a deal.
So now i do have some money to do funny stuff with this new project and i needed that cash:
- woodwork is not for free
- metalwork (construction baseplate but certainly the waterjet-cut 15 mm alu K-frames that are currently in the making)
- the 3rd required amp
- an acceptable analog crossover.
Noted that you are the Fertin distributor. GREAT STUFF ! To be honest i do not have experience with the current Fertin-goodies but the "old" Fertin 38EX is an amazing product. And i do have the associated Fertin 20EX still in the box. A shame that i have no use for it currently but i'm sure it will find it's way into another project or otherwise i'll put it up for sale/trade (always needing serious cables.....) Picture of that Fertin 20EX included.
In the meantime my listeing experience is changed due the driver-switch. That Feastrex gave me oodles of details but was never fatigueing. Refined ? Sophisticated ? Never boring or dull; that's often the case with lesser full range drivers.
The current Von Langa + K-tube is "in your face", "no hidding possible". All details will be exposed ! Interesting what the addition of the Fostex + 2" K-tube will do (with an temporarily amp).
Regards, Reinout
the Feastrex D9NF drivers were sold a couple of months ago.
Not because they are bad; on the contrary !! These beauties gave a wonderful refined sound BUT.......i couldn't make any progress with that speakersystem. And part of the audiohobby is building/tinkering. So an audio-enthousiast approached me some time ago and we came to a deal.
So now i do have some money to do funny stuff with this new project and i needed that cash:
- woodwork is not for free
- metalwork (construction baseplate but certainly the waterjet-cut 15 mm alu K-frames that are currently in the making)
- the 3rd required amp
- an acceptable analog crossover.
Noted that you are the Fertin distributor. GREAT STUFF ! To be honest i do not have experience with the current Fertin-goodies but the "old" Fertin 38EX is an amazing product. And i do have the associated Fertin 20EX still in the box. A shame that i have no use for it currently but i'm sure it will find it's way into another project or otherwise i'll put it up for sale/trade (always needing serious cables.....) Picture of that Fertin 20EX included.
In the meantime my listeing experience is changed due the driver-switch. That Feastrex gave me oodles of details but was never fatigueing. Refined ? Sophisticated ? Never boring or dull; that's often the case with lesser full range drivers.
The current Von Langa + K-tube is "in your face", "no hidding possible". All details will be exposed ! Interesting what the addition of the Fostex + 2" K-tube will do (with an temporarily amp).
Regards, Reinout
Attachments
Hi Docali,
yep...those WvL's do work (and become really warm compared to the Fertin fieldcoils).
The audiogroup did not bring in all measuring stuff. That's something to be done when that Fostex + 2"K-tube is installed.
Exactly why that Behringer is so usefull now: i can change everything without any hassle.
The original 1" K-tube is effective from 1,2 kHz up.
The 2" oversized seriously damped "organpipe" K-tube is effective from 300 Hz up. My audio-collegue uses them already in a combo in his set (dedicated 1" and 2" K-tubes both driven with serious JBL-drivers). Pictures included.
So proof of principle/concept: done.
Noted that on this DIY-forum also a 4" K-tubes is available; pondering what driver will be used for that beast......
When we do measuring stuff i'll share them here.
Regards,
Reinout
yep...those WvL's do work (and become really warm compared to the Fertin fieldcoils).
The audiogroup did not bring in all measuring stuff. That's something to be done when that Fostex + 2"K-tube is installed.
Exactly why that Behringer is so usefull now: i can change everything without any hassle.
The original 1" K-tube is effective from 1,2 kHz up.
The 2" oversized seriously damped "organpipe" K-tube is effective from 300 Hz up. My audio-collegue uses them already in a combo in his set (dedicated 1" and 2" K-tubes both driven with serious JBL-drivers). Pictures included.
So proof of principle/concept: done.
Noted that on this DIY-forum also a 4" K-tubes is available; pondering what driver will be used for that beast......
When we do measuring stuff i'll share them here.
Regards,
Reinout
Attachments
When we tested the A4000 on the table here you brought an 1" K-tube for a short test. Dou you have an 1.4" K-tube in the meantime for the A4000?
Btw, Wolf told me that these temperatures are quite normal and you do not worry about this. You could consider a metal flange which carries a little bit energy away like the aluminium 80x50 waveguides.
br!
Bernd
Btw, Wolf told me that these temperatures are quite normal and you do not worry about this. You could consider a metal flange which carries a little bit energy away like the aluminium 80x50 waveguides.
br!
Bernd
Hi Bernd,
nope; that dedicated 1,4" K-tube have to wait. Too many projects.
So i had to look for throat-convertors to cater for 1" and 2" solutions from a 1,4" throat.
To be honest i was a bit dissapointed what the market had to offer. Luckily i found a audio-afficianado in Hong Kong who made serious nice convertors from massive metal.
I ordered a full set: 1" to 1,4" , 1" to 2" and 1,4" to 2" so i could simply do all the trial-and-errors i wanted. Very satisfied with the result i ordered the bespoke 1,4" to 1" for the current set up. And even that is only temporarily as that 1,4" K-tube will arrive sooner or later.
So to be perfectly honest: the complete over-engineered massive aluminium, perfectly coated convertors are just boxed because they did their duty.
I'm glad this stuff is still available but i'll push it sooner or later to the sale part as i don't need them anymore.
Still shocked at the standard available crap. So porely made.....
Regards,
Reinout
nope; that dedicated 1,4" K-tube have to wait. Too many projects.
So i had to look for throat-convertors to cater for 1" and 2" solutions from a 1,4" throat.
To be honest i was a bit dissapointed what the market had to offer. Luckily i found a audio-afficianado in Hong Kong who made serious nice convertors from massive metal.
I ordered a full set: 1" to 1,4" , 1" to 2" and 1,4" to 2" so i could simply do all the trial-and-errors i wanted. Very satisfied with the result i ordered the bespoke 1,4" to 1" for the current set up. And even that is only temporarily as that 1,4" K-tube will arrive sooner or later.
So to be perfectly honest: the complete over-engineered massive aluminium, perfectly coated convertors are just boxed because they did their duty.
I'm glad this stuff is still available but i'll push it sooner or later to the sale part as i don't need them anymore.
Still shocked at the standard available crap. So porely made.....
Regards,
Reinout
Attachments
Following with interest. I wasn't aware of K-tubes. Intriguing!
I guess the pictures are from your audio-colleague. So he uses the 2" K-tube (coated/damped with blue material) from 300Hz, a 1" K-tube seen in the pict from 1.2kHz, and the third driver seen to the left at the highest frequencies? Starting where?
What's a good place/link to learn about K-tubes?
Hi LewinskiH01,
This forum is the perfect way to explore Karlson / K-tubes. DIYaudio-member Freddi started with a highly appriciated thread:
A Karlson Compendium - Part One - "A New Approach in Loudspeaker Enclosures"
But please use the search-option of this forum and explore ! You will encounter lots of bass-enclosures (the most common Karlson-application) but also a lot of K-tubes catering for the highs. You'll even find ZIP-files containing 3D-print K-tubes !
I did not state that my audio-collegue uses 300 Hz and 1,2 kHz as crossover frequencies (this depends also on the capacity of the driver as well !) but it was feasible from that frequency onwards with those 1" and 2" K-tubes.
Freddi is very productive on this forum with K-tubes: a nice K-tube tweeter
Regards, Reinout
This forum is the perfect way to explore Karlson / K-tubes. DIYaudio-member Freddi started with a highly appriciated thread:
A Karlson Compendium - Part One - "A New Approach in Loudspeaker Enclosures"
But please use the search-option of this forum and explore ! You will encounter lots of bass-enclosures (the most common Karlson-application) but also a lot of K-tubes catering for the highs. You'll even find ZIP-files containing 3D-print K-tubes !
I did not state that my audio-collegue uses 300 Hz and 1,2 kHz as crossover frequencies (this depends also on the capacity of the driver as well !) but it was feasible from that frequency onwards with those 1" and 2" K-tubes.
Freddi is very productive on this forum with K-tubes: a nice K-tube tweeter
Regards, Reinout
Hi Reinout,
Nice to see the old FERTIN, I suspect with the Black Forest modifications, a rarity nowadays and for sure very good. Just had a crazy idea for your Supravoxes: why don´t you make the OB for the bass drivers in K-Tube as well...
Have you ever tried to run the CDs without back cover?
Good luck with your project!
Groetjes
Mattes
Nice to see the old FERTIN, I suspect with the Black Forest modifications, a rarity nowadays and for sure very good. Just had a crazy idea for your Supravoxes: why don´t you make the OB for the bass drivers in K-Tube as well...
Have you ever tried to run the CDs without back cover?
Good luck with your project!
Groetjes
Mattes
I've not yet read this great thread. FWIW here's some info on Karlson's "X15" speaker which employed a 15" CTS woofer with a Karlson tweeter. The first tweeter was a wood mini "klam", which was replaced with a slotted tube and University Sound compression driver.
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/ful...ns-x15-frontier-perfect-size.html#post6351006
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/ful...ns-x15-frontier-perfect-size.html#post6351006
Attachments
a one inch K-tube can use a simple 2nd order highpass with no contouring.
There is a double slotted K-tube and probably first appeared with an EV12L to work with Robert Reams "Karlson Hypex"
fwiw I think its cool to use Karlson for midbass too. The original Karlson cabinet aka "K15" is quite good and there's room for new variant.
Diyaudio member "Pelanj" has posted 3D print files for a couple of one inch format K-tubes including the double slotted tube in the composite picture below.
There is a double slotted K-tube and probably first appeared with an EV12L to work with Robert Reams "Karlson Hypex"
fwiw I think its cool to use Karlson for midbass too. The original Karlson cabinet aka "K15" is quite good and there's room for new variant.
Diyaudio member "Pelanj" has posted 3D print files for a couple of one inch format K-tubes including the double slotted tube in the composite picture below.
Attachments
Good morning Freddi,
good to see/hear you on "my" K-tube thread. I simply had to use your name and some of your links when someone asked about Karlson.
Fully aware of that cloth-pin and of course the Karlson bass. We did try the 3D-printing but that material kept resonating. We have better results with thicker material combinations like you see on the picture: aluminium + plastic.
Measurements supported that:
Carlson Coupler fur Hochtoner – GECOM Technologies
Karlson Coupler Teil 2 – GECOM Technologies
We're going to explore CNC to upgrade the original Transylvania K-tube. Those have small support flanges on the side and we think these are not only for structural solidity but also for the suppression of resonances.
The metalwork for the 2" K-tubes is ongoing. Hurray......another 10+ kg to add....
Hopefully this weekend i can run the speakersystem in the intended 3 way configuration:
- Fertin 38EX bas in open baffle
- Fostex D200a with 2" K-tube
- Von Langs A4000 with 1" K-tube
Regards,
Reinout
good to see/hear you on "my" K-tube thread. I simply had to use your name and some of your links when someone asked about Karlson.
Fully aware of that cloth-pin and of course the Karlson bass. We did try the 3D-printing but that material kept resonating. We have better results with thicker material combinations like you see on the picture: aluminium + plastic.
Measurements supported that:
Carlson Coupler fur Hochtoner – GECOM Technologies
Karlson Coupler Teil 2 – GECOM Technologies
We're going to explore CNC to upgrade the original Transylvania K-tube. Those have small support flanges on the side and we think these are not only for structural solidity but also for the suppression of resonances.
The metalwork for the 2" K-tubes is ongoing. Hurray......another 10+ kg to add....
Hopefully this weekend i can run the speakersystem in the intended 3 way configuration:
- Fertin 38EX bas in open baffle
- Fostex D200a with 2" K-tube
- Von Langs A4000 with 1" K-tube
Regards,
Reinout
