FAST or STAFT (WAW or STAW) Which is Better?

[scottjoplin]

One way around that would be wide dispersion and/or having the supertweeter on the top or back so reflections are bounced around the room. Personally I don't see much point in a supertweeter.

 

[xrk971]

Faital 5FE120 would be a good candidate for this.....flat to 5.5k

I was going to try that driver next. Excellent looking response on factory data.

 

[Suicufnoc]

FIR Brickwall crossover at 4K?

 

[xrk971]

No need for FIR or DSP. I bet the 5FE120 with electrical 2nd order will combine with natural rolloff circa 5k5 to 6k to produce an overall electro acoustic 4th order BW which is perfect for combining with 2nd order tweeter for a Harsch XO.

 

[ttan98]

Hi,
Since we are talking about super tweeter and high x-over point well recently I saw a video where a old hand owner of the famous Spendor BC1 3-ways spkrs which used a super tweeter x-over around 15kHz. The reviewer is no means a technical person and being an old hand at listening to old speakers he said that the spkrs gave airy sound to the speakers, with sparkling top end. I thnk there some truth to it. Elac latest Debut 2.0 6.2 speakrs has a tweeter extended way above 20khz, Peter explained that the advantage being that when you take spkrs directivity above 0 deg you will still get close flat response up to 20Khz.

There you go, I include here a link to Spendor BC1 Freq. response curve and x-over from the DIY Loudspeaker Projects Troels Gravesen site. Spendor BC1
Hope this helps.

 

[Scottmoose]

Well, there's certainly truth as far as the BC1 is concerned, although Spendor did it that way simply because the old HF1300 tweeter was running out of steam above about 13KHz so if you wanted more HF extension, that was how it had to be. Harbeth still run a twin-tweeter setup in their SuperHL5, albeit the upper unit is not strictly a supertweeter in the sense most people tend to term it, and I get the distinct impression that model is there because people want it rather than necessarily for anything else.

From my POV, ultimately all these speakers are variations on the 2-way; they just fall at different places on a sliding scale of objectives & specifics of implementation. I'm not sure about the 'long lost' bit here though, since wideband drive units with a supporting HF unit aren't exactly uncommon. If you want to stretch a point, Lynn Olson's Ariel could just about be classed among them, having a crossover frequency of about 3.8KHz. Be that as it may, nice to see a new one around.

 

[oon_the_kid]

No need for FIR or DSP. I bet the 5FE120 with electrical 2nd order will combine with natural rolloff circa 5k5 to 6k to produce an overall electro acoustic 4th order BW which is perfect for combining with 2nd order tweeter for a Harsch XO.

I will be interested in hearing the result when you do it. A big fan of stuff from Faitalpro so far. If only the have proper mounts instead of those rabbit ears...

Oon

 

[xrk971]

One way to make the Faitalpros look better is to mount them from the rear side of the baffle. It’s a pain though as that means the baffle needs to be removable. For full range drivers also means dealing with diffraction from then cutout unless well smoothed.

 

[oon_the_kid]

Hi,

I was reading up the suggestion by Jameshillj on late ceiling splash and I found a very interesting thread on it.

Late Ceiling Splash

Oon

 

[ewollowe]

Late ceiling splash, I've been following that one for a few years too

 

[Scottmoose]

Minor suggestion for the Faital & other rear-mount baskets lads: a thin cork, felt, leather / suede or similar ring glued (contact glue is fine) over the top of the basket works wonders at improving the cosmetics. You could even tell yourself you're helping reduce diffraction effects. Remember you're not obliged to use the same shape as the basket either; you can use larger & just have the appropriate cutout for the driver.

 

[oon_the_kid]

Minor suggestion for the Faital & other rear-mount baskets lads: a thin cork, felt, leather / suede or similar ring glued (contact glue is fine) over the top of the basket works wonders at improving the cosmetics. You could even tell yourself you're helping reduce diffraction effects. Remember you're not obliged to use the same shape as the basket either; you can use larger & just have the appropriate cutout for the driver.

If I understand you correctly, you are proposing I get, maybe a round cork or foam core board, cut out the shape of the driver in the middle, put it on the driver to form an outer ring. Then cover the ring with a layer of leather?

Seems like an interesting idea...

Oon

 

[jimk04]

Another driver that has been on my radar for some time and I have never used is the Peerless SDS-135F25CP02-06. Flatish to 5k but then does break up fast after that. Cheap as chips here in the UK at leas than £10 including VAT.
https://cpc.farnell.com/peerless-by-tymphany/sds-135f25cp02-06/sds-woofer-5-25-inch-6-ohm/dp/LS05113

The Peerless 830656 seems to be the same thing and that is available from PE for about 15usd i believe.
No issues with flush mounting either.

I think Michael Chua has had some success with this driver and he was massively impressed, especially given the cost

 

[xrk971]

Thanks for the tip Jimk04, I have seen these before but not in light of a high crossover.

Looks promising. Butter smooth response and 99Hz in 5.7L sealed is ideal. $16ea is very nice price. A little lower sensitivity than DC130A though.

https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/264-1078--tymphany-sds-p830656-spec-sheet.pdf

 

[Scottmoose]

If I understand you correctly, you are proposing I get, maybe a round cork or foam core board, cut out the shape of the driver in the middle, put it on the driver to form an outer ring. Then cover the ring with a layer of leather?

Seems like an interesting idea...

Oon

Yes. You don't have to cover cork with leather of course, if you happen to like cork, leave it as cork. If you want leather or some other material then naturally you can fix it to a ring made of whatever material you feel like (cardboard, foamcore etc.). We're only talking a couple of mm thickness here; it's just a trim-piece. I'm surprised more people don't do something like that, given the popularity of some drivers with rear-mount basket designs.

 

[Bigun]

I think a very interesting full range driver for use with supporting woofer and maybe super tweeter is Lowther... controversial of course.

 

[Scottmoose]

Not especially controversial -that's about the best way of using most of them.

 

[Scottmoose]

I'll bite temporarily, although I appreciate the fact that I'm about as welcome on this forum as a dose of the plague. Since this is essentially a multiway question, you may wish to take a gander at some of the following:

Monacor SPH-145HQ
Seas Excel W15LY001
Seas Prestige ER15RLY
Seas Prestige CA15RLY
Seas Prestige U16RCY/P
Scan Revelator 15W/8530K00

A couple of general suggestions:

-Do not be fooled by the Seas factory graphs: they do not measure on a baffle but a relatively compact test box, so baffle-step (for that box) is included in the graph. The dotted line is the mathematical LF IB curve. John Krutke's measures of all but the Monacor give a better general idea.

-Watch out for energy storage when running a midbass to relatively high frequencies. A few can do it, but not all can do it well, so pay attention to the impedance, distortion & off-axis curves when available, because it will pay dividends.

 

[xrk971]

Good point on energy storage, Scottmoose. A big heavy cone mid bass won’t be as good as a lighter one.

I suspect the state of the art in midbass PTT6.5 will do very well here on low energy storage. The waterfall/CSD plot will tell all I think.

I have the baffle for this and it would be instructive to try it crossed high circa 5k5. I have tried a RAAL ribbon and a dome in a waveguide at 3k5 with great results.

RAAL 70-20xr and PTT6.5 Compact TL

But perhaps an easy test is to push it up another 2kHz?

I added a 2.1in delay and that allowed me to use a passive quasi-transient perfect Harsh XO:

 

[Bigun]

I appreciate the fact that I'm about as welcome on this forum as a dose of the plague.

On the contrary - your contributions have been most valued on all the forums !