Likely you need to reduce the value of the resistance in series with the Vifa. If you have some spare 8 ohm try putting those in parallel with the resistors you already have. You can use clip leads to connect them. That will make a 4 ohm resistor and the vifa will be noticeably louder.
Too much? Then you need more than 4 ohms in that spot. Not enough? Try jumping over the resistor so that there is 0 ohms
Too much? You need between 0 and 4 ohms. And so on and so forth. The lower the resistor value, the louder the Vifa will play. It’s easy to try values between 8 and 0 ohms to hear how it changes the tonal balance.
Too much? Then you need more than 4 ohms in that spot. Not enough? Try jumping over the resistor so that there is 0 ohms
Too much? You need between 0 and 4 ohms. And so on and so forth. The lower the resistor value, the louder the Vifa will play. It’s easy to try values between 8 and 0 ohms to hear how it changes the tonal balance.
You don’t have to change the baffle size of the Ultra for the 12” woofers, but you can. You will need to tweak the crossover to suit.
Thanks Pano, today I ordered the baffles with "my" size, so it will be even more fun to tweak the xo.
I'm curious how it works. And that way I can learn more
I asked John about that at one time. He waffled a bit on it. He was careful about the distance between driver and baffle edge so as not to create too many ripples in the response. I have built other OB with rounded edges - it looked a bit like a tombstone - but it didn't seem to hurt the sound.
I’ve been thinking about the DSP dilemma described a few times about the Manzanita. John and Pano recommended the passive crossover over DSP multiple times mostly because of the interaction of the woofer with the very big inductor (if I recall correctly). If that was the main reason, would it be feasible to just keep the woofer inductor and have everything else handled by DSP? HybridManzi! I’m just musing. There will be a new Manzanita build in my future, including 3-way experimentation.
I don't recall any designs with two 12" woofers.
John did have a dual 15" design he called the Ultra Plus. Two 15" woofers and a different tweeter and crossover. It was a commercial offering, though, so he didn't share the details.
When the discussion turns to more woofers folks usually point to the 3 1/2" driver as not having enough output for the added woofers. So another driver would be needed and that would change the crossover, too.
John did have a dual 15" design he called the Ultra Plus. Two 15" woofers and a different tweeter and crossover. It was a commercial offering, though, so he didn't share the details.
When the discussion turns to more woofers folks usually point to the 3 1/2" driver as not having enough output for the added woofers. So another driver would be needed and that would change the crossover, too.
Unfortunately I am too late to thank the originator of these.
But I would like to thank everyone else who has had input and helped on this.
I feel honoured to be allowed to copy designs like this.
Absolutely impossible for me to achieve anything like this without all the expertise behind it.
Thank you.
I have kind of bodged it together to see how it sounds initially and am expecting to take it back apart.
I was expecting to mess it up more than I did.
This was a perfect project.
My woodworking is quite poor. Never used a router and discovered that my skill saw was poor.
So am sort of starting from quite a low level.
Seemed to me that there is a fair amount of leeway for me to mess up and learn and still acheive a working pair of speakers.
It also is a great visual crossover which is fun. I can now look up how that actually works.
So, having decided this was the one for me, imagine my glee when a very kind gentleman offered a set of used drivers and components in swap meet. I am a lucky boy.
Then, I only grabbed a sheet of ply out of the skip as well.
Ideal.
I have learned a LOT from doing this. It has been great.
It is a definite step up from my old speakers.
Now things sound much more ‘normal’.
I feel like I am now on the first step of the ladder.
My first 'proper' speakers.
I might redo now with some unwarped and undamaged wood
Maybe cut things a bit straighter and more accurately this time.
Having put it together, I was pleased with the sound and keen to make these a bit better.
So, please bear in mind that they are an unfinished project
(although I don't want to switch them off to make the improvements )
It is with the Peerless 830669 and 27TDFC/TV.
I am thinking the things I need to do still are:
Strengthen the base. Solidify it a bit.
Isolate it from the ground.
Put battens behind to strengthen the front.
Put some damping on the back surface.
Get some black screws.
Then ponder remaking them more properly having done a practice run.
Should I be sealing the wings to the front piece?
I just remembered that there is no gasket behind the tweeter. I assume I should rectify that?
Then, with connections on the back. I copied some other photos and used chocolate box type connectors.
I have used spade connectors to one driver and soldered the other.
I have tried to spread things out and keep cables from crossing.
I am thinking that soldering to drivers is better than spade connectors.
Should I solder the components together? I am thinking that would be better than those connectors?
someone has just offered me some 12mm underlay. Would that be good for putting on the back surface?
Is there anything else that I have missed?
Any other best practice advise?
Thanks again.
This is fun.
But I would like to thank everyone else who has had input and helped on this.
I feel honoured to be allowed to copy designs like this.
Absolutely impossible for me to achieve anything like this without all the expertise behind it.
Thank you.
I have kind of bodged it together to see how it sounds initially and am expecting to take it back apart.
I was expecting to mess it up more than I did.
This was a perfect project.
My woodworking is quite poor. Never used a router and discovered that my skill saw was poor.
So am sort of starting from quite a low level.
Seemed to me that there is a fair amount of leeway for me to mess up and learn and still acheive a working pair of speakers.
It also is a great visual crossover which is fun. I can now look up how that actually works.
So, having decided this was the one for me, imagine my glee when a very kind gentleman offered a set of used drivers and components in swap meet. I am a lucky boy.
Then, I only grabbed a sheet of ply out of the skip as well.
Ideal.
I have learned a LOT from doing this. It has been great.
It is a definite step up from my old speakers.
Now things sound much more ‘normal’.
I feel like I am now on the first step of the ladder.
My first 'proper' speakers.
I might redo now with some unwarped and undamaged wood
Maybe cut things a bit straighter and more accurately this time.
Having put it together, I was pleased with the sound and keen to make these a bit better.
So, please bear in mind that they are an unfinished project
(although I don't want to switch them off to make the improvements
)It is with the Peerless 830669 and 27TDFC/TV.
I am thinking the things I need to do still are:
Strengthen the base. Solidify it a bit.
Isolate it from the ground.
Put battens behind to strengthen the front.
Put some damping on the back surface.
Get some black screws.
Then ponder remaking them more properly having done a practice run.
Should I be sealing the wings to the front piece?
I just remembered that there is no gasket behind the tweeter. I assume I should rectify that?
Then, with connections on the back. I copied some other photos and used chocolate box type connectors.
I have used spade connectors to one driver and soldered the other.
I have tried to spread things out and keep cables from crossing.
I am thinking that soldering to drivers is better than spade connectors.
Should I solder the components together? I am thinking that would be better than those connectors?
someone has just offered me some 12mm underlay. Would that be good for putting on the back surface?
Is there anything else that I have missed?
Any other best practice advise?
Thanks again.
This is fun.
Congrats on building a pair! They look great.
I'll throw my two cents in but please remember I'm not a speaker designer. My only credentials are stumbling onto this thread fairly early on and putting together a set of Manzis and a set of Ultras over the years. Those builds did teach me a few things by messing a few things up along the way.
Dampening the rear of the baffle is a personal thing. Put something on it temporarily to see if it's an improvement. It may or may not be better.
Gaskets around the drivers (to reduce the vibrations on the baffle) are usually a good thing.
Fill in all openings in wings or around the drivers. You wouldn't think having a small air gap around the tweeter would matter in an open baffle speaker - but it does. It actually makes a big difference. A quick fix is to fill in the air gaps with rope caulk just to hear the differences.
Keep wires away from driver magnets. My Ultras had the tweeter wire crossing right over the woofer magnet and it messed things up. A small hook on the inside of the wing holds it far from the woofer magnet now.
Soldered connections generally sound better than connectors. If you want to play with resistor values leave the quick connectors on them but solder the rest of the crossover components together. To my ear it removes a layer of grunge.
As for isolation, my speakers generally sound best with isolation from the wood floors. It removes resonances. Sometimes just felt, sometimes the rubber/cork/rubber gizmos work best. It's cheap to play.
https://www.amazon.com/PneumaticPlus-Anti-Vibration-Rubber-isolation/dp/B073R6KMYK
Congrats on the build. Enjoy them!
I'll throw my two cents in but please remember I'm not a speaker designer. My only credentials are stumbling onto this thread fairly early on and putting together a set of Manzis and a set of Ultras over the years. Those builds did teach me a few things by messing a few things up along the way.
Dampening the rear of the baffle is a personal thing. Put something on it temporarily to see if it's an improvement. It may or may not be better.
Gaskets around the drivers (to reduce the vibrations on the baffle) are usually a good thing.
Fill in all openings in wings or around the drivers. You wouldn't think having a small air gap around the tweeter would matter in an open baffle speaker - but it does. It actually makes a big difference. A quick fix is to fill in the air gaps with rope caulk just to hear the differences.
Keep wires away from driver magnets. My Ultras had the tweeter wire crossing right over the woofer magnet and it messed things up. A small hook on the inside of the wing holds it far from the woofer magnet now.
Soldered connections generally sound better than connectors. If you want to play with resistor values leave the quick connectors on them but solder the rest of the crossover components together. To my ear it removes a layer of grunge.
As for isolation, my speakers generally sound best with isolation from the wood floors. It removes resonances. Sometimes just felt, sometimes the rubber/cork/rubber gizmos work best. It's cheap to play.
https://www.amazon.com/PneumaticPlus-Anti-Vibration-Rubber-isolation/dp/B073R6KMYK
Congrats on the build. Enjoy them!
This is a great help, thank you for this.
Dampening -Ah, right, well said. I hadn't realised that.
Gaskets - I thought so.
Sealing - I sort of thought it would make some difference, but not to the extent you are suggesting, no.
As you say, it is an open baffle.
Exciting to think there might be noticeable improvements.
Soldering - Thanks.
The temptation is to go and get some straight wood and redo, but I think I will make the improvements to these and play.
Learn some more.
Thanks again.
Dampening -Ah, right, well said. I hadn't realised that.
Gaskets - I thought so.
Sealing - I sort of thought it would make some difference, but not to the extent you are suggesting, no.
As you say, it is an open baffle.
Exciting to think there might be noticeable improvements.
Soldering - Thanks.
The temptation is to go and get some straight wood and redo, but I think I will make the improvements to these and play.
Learn some more.
Thanks again.
Hi,
I don't know if it is of interest, but I thought there are many of us (incl. myself) who don't have a router, or don't have the knowledge how to use it, or don't have a workshop to use it (a living room looks after some routing like a workshop and you really must have the best of all wifes if you don't want to sleep on the couch the next two weeks...), or a combination of this factors, but you WANT to make your baffle yourself... so here a short step by step, while building my Ultra. If it's not of interest - so it is just a documentation of my progress
1. Buy the wood (I use 19 mm MDF)
2. Buy 4 mm ply sheets.
3. Use an FFP3 dust mask, the dust of the wood can be harmful. I also recommend the use of protective gloves.
4. Use a hole saw with 140 mm diameter in order to make the cutout for the FR's sub-baffle (17 euros, fyi); it causes much less dirt, because you have to run it at low rpm.
5. Mark the woofer's cutout outline on the baffle and cut it with a jigsaw; you will have to drill a hole where the jigsaw starts. This cutout takes about 5 minutes for both baffles.
6. In the next step you will make a two piece sub-baffle; one piece has the outline of the Vifa, the other piece is the inner cutout. Place the pieces precisely on the cutout and mark the diameter of the cutout on every peace. On the outer piece, mark the outlines of the Vifa with a paper template. Cut along the outer marks first, with a circle cutter or an exacto knife, in the second step cut along the outer marks.
7. Glue the two pieces together with white glue and press the whole sub-baffle together tightly with clamps. Now, you have an 8 mm sub-baffle with a countersunk cut-out, where the Vifa can be installed flush with the surface
8. When dry, place the sub baffle into the cutout and glue it in with white glue. The more precise the cutout and sub-baffle are, the less filling is required later.
9. Let the glue dry and fill the gaps with wood putty. Sand the baffle flush with the baffle surface. So, there you have it. It will take about 8-10 hours of your life, but hey, it's diy
I don't know if it is of interest, but I thought there are many of us (incl. myself) who don't have a router, or don't have the knowledge how to use it, or don't have a workshop to use it (a living room looks after some routing like a workshop and you really must have the best of all wifes if you don't want to sleep on the couch the next two weeks...), or a combination of this factors, but you WANT to make your baffle yourself... so here a short step by step, while building my Ultra. If it's not of interest - so it is just a documentation of my progress
1. Buy the wood
(I use 19 mm MDF)2. Buy 4 mm ply sheets.
3. Use an FFP3 dust mask, the dust of the wood can be harmful. I also recommend the use of protective gloves.
4. Use a hole saw with 140 mm diameter in order to make the cutout for the FR's sub-baffle (17 euros, fyi); it causes much less dirt, because you have to run it at low rpm.
5. Mark the woofer's cutout outline on the baffle and cut it with a jigsaw; you will have to drill a hole where the jigsaw starts. This cutout takes about 5 minutes for both baffles.
6. In the next step you will make a two piece sub-baffle; one piece has the outline of the Vifa, the other piece is the inner cutout. Place the pieces precisely on the cutout and mark the diameter of the cutout on every peace. On the outer piece, mark the outlines of the Vifa with a paper template. Cut along the outer marks first, with a circle cutter or an exacto knife, in the second step cut along the outer marks.
7. Glue the two pieces together with white glue and press the whole sub-baffle together tightly with clamps. Now, you have an 8 mm sub-baffle with a countersunk cut-out, where the Vifa can be installed flush with the surface
8. When dry, place the sub baffle into the cutout and glue it in with white glue. The more precise the cutout and sub-baffle are, the less filling is required later.
9. Let the glue dry and fill the gaps with wood putty. Sand the baffle flush with the baffle surface. So, there you have it. It will take about 8-10 hours of your life, but hey, it's diy
Hi,
I've been listening to the Ultra for about 5 hours (with the M2x) and I'm amazed at how different the regular Manzanita and the Ultra sound. It's the same drivers, the same xo, just the baffle is bigger. Of course, one would expect a difference, but the magnitude is surprising. The sound is much more solid, more stable, with a much deeper base and the imaging of the sounds is more detailed. The midrange is cleaner, calmer, but therefore appears a little "slower", more deliberate, the liveliness of the normal Manzanita is not as present. For tonal balance I lowered R2 to 5.11 ohms; the highs come out incredibly nicely detailed, again the resolution seems improved if that makes any sense. The stage is great, wide and deep, but not quite as high as with the little Manzie, the localization of the instruments is perfect. The overall sound is perhaps a little "darker", but not tiring in the long run (not that the small Manzies are tiring, but the Ultras have perhaps better audibility in the long run). All in all a great speaker.
I've been listening to the Ultra for about 5 hours (with the M2x) and I'm amazed at how different the regular Manzanita and the Ultra sound. It's the same drivers, the same xo, just the baffle is bigger. Of course, one would expect a difference, but the magnitude is surprising. The sound is much more solid, more stable, with a much deeper base and the imaging of the sounds is more detailed. The midrange is cleaner, calmer, but therefore appears a little "slower", more deliberate, the liveliness of the normal Manzanita is not as present. For tonal balance I lowered R2 to 5.11 ohms; the highs come out incredibly nicely detailed, again the resolution seems improved if that makes any sense. The stage is great, wide and deep, but not quite as high as with the little Manzie, the localization of the instruments is perfect. The overall sound is perhaps a little "darker", but not tiring in the long run (not that the small Manzies are tiring, but the Ultras have perhaps better audibility in the long run). All in all a great speaker.
Funny thing... I shorted the trap and there is it - the liveliness is back, the darker sound is gone.
First I installed the trap in the normal Manzie and there was only a slight "hand brakes" effect, but the Ultra suffers much more with the trap. So, choose between cone breakup and hand brake
First I installed the trap in the normal Manzie and there was only a slight "hand brakes" effect, but the Ultra suffers much more with the trap. So, choose between cone breakup and hand brake
Cool! Thanks for reporting your results.
FWIW the 12” Peerless doesn’t need the woofer trap nearly as much as the 15” GRS (for which it was designed.) The GRS rings more. The Peerless SLS is a well engineered driver that can get by without the trap. I never used it.
That crossover is beautiful! Well done.
FWIW the 12” Peerless doesn’t need the woofer trap nearly as much as the 15” GRS (for which it was designed.) The GRS rings more. The Peerless SLS is a well engineered driver that can get by without the trap. I never used it.
That crossover is beautiful! Well done.