Then we appear to be in agreement; the original 2.2KHz filter was insufficient to address the HD amplification lower down, which is why several others (D'Appolito never revisited Thor AFAIK) designed alternatives with lower transitions, as they were experiencing problems with this. A bottomless stopband notch is no bad thing either, as appears to have been done with the example you attached.
Well, YMMV as always. I'm simply providing you with historical information stating what a number of people who built Thor complained about, what they did to fix it & the reasons. That's the end of the story as far as I'm concerned (never owned a pair, no interest in doing so), although if you want to pursue it further I'm sure the Thor threads are still active and builders will appreciate anything you can give them.
Joe's measurements of the individual drivers with filter attached -apologies, it was a 2.526KHz crossover frequency, not 2.2KHz.
Joe's measurements of the individual drivers with filter attached -apologies, it was a 2.526KHz crossover frequency, not 2.2KHz.
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The Millennium is 87db sens, Tahts too low for my use.
I instead went with a Philips 163T8, pulled froma Scott 166 speaker from late 70's Same tweeter as in the Bang and Oulfsen.
The 162 has superior voicing on human vocals vs the 163, but the 163/fabric has more sheen top end PLUS a bit more sensitivity, maybe 92db sens , vs the 162 Mylar dome at manybe 90db sens. .
Running a single Mundorf 6.8 EVO SG cap.
Just wonderful.
THe W18E001's with a 10 uf cap offers wonderful bass.
I am quite happy whats going on with my speaker since dumping the Kausn paper cone tweeter.
The DavidLouis VX6 is on the way. will it pair up with the DLVX8, ,,,we will soon find out.
I instead went with a Philips 163T8, pulled froma Scott 166 speaker from late 70's Same tweeter as in the Bang and Oulfsen.
The 162 has superior voicing on human vocals vs the 163, but the 163/fabric has more sheen top end PLUS a bit more sensitivity, maybe 92db sens , vs the 162 Mylar dome at manybe 90db sens. .
Running a single Mundorf 6.8 EVO SG cap.
Just wonderful.
THe W18E001's with a 10 uf cap offers wonderful bass.
I am quite happy whats going on with my speaker since dumping the Kausn paper cone tweeter.
The DavidLouis VX6 is on the way. will it pair up with the DLVX8, ,,,we will soon find out.
Speakers now can breathe.
Moved further apart.
DLVX6 on the way DHL, going same cabinet as DLVX8 50 liter cabinet
Double ported.
DazvidLouis FR VX8 Preeminent Speaker for High Fidelity Sound - YouTube
Moved further apart.
DLVX6 on the way DHL, going same cabinet as DLVX8 50 liter cabinet
Double ported.
DazvidLouis FR VX8 Preeminent Speaker for High Fidelity Sound - YouTube
Well my local tech loaned me his UX250 tube (made in the 1920's) amplifier with pure ~~COLBALT ~~~ out trans.
WOW factor high
SET + High End FR = match made in heaven
caveat.
Only best for light jazz, light blues, classical chamber/solo piano, violin
For big blues/jazz, full symphony orchestra, recommended PP amplifier.
Here in this video I try to explain the magic ofa SET + FR.
DavidLouis VX6 arrives Monday, will install tudesday and up load a video of Dual davidLouis
Seas W18's at 87 db sens are now going away.
Speaker assist draws, ohms, causing stress on amp/tubes.
So it will be
dual FR + tweeter, . The W18's are only causing trouble adding ohms. Both pairs are up for sale, along with the Mundorf xover if anyone is interested.
Best bass for a midwoofer, magnesu=ium + Mundorf.
- YouTube
WOW factor high
SET + High End FR = match made in heaven
caveat.
Only best for light jazz, light blues, classical chamber/solo piano, violin
For big blues/jazz, full symphony orchestra, recommended PP amplifier.
Here in this video I try to explain the magic ofa SET + FR.
DavidLouis VX6 arrives Monday, will install tudesday and up load a video of Dual davidLouis
Seas W18's at 87 db sens are now going away.
Speaker assist draws, ohms, causing stress on amp/tubes.
So it will be
dual FR + tweeter, . The W18's are only causing trouble adding ohms. Both pairs are up for sale, along with the Mundorf xover if anyone is interested.
Best bass for a midwoofer, magnesu=ium + Mundorf.
- YouTube
**will play all types of music**... not sure what you mean..are you saying if the tech has configured the amp to catch low fq's, then it will play more complex music as well...??
well I thought SET tubes begin to fall apart as the music grows in complexity??
Yes I have good bass from the UX250,
Not sure how much the COBALT trans come in to play here.
But I am not missing either fq end ranges.
UPDATE DHL is delivering the DLVX6 today,, look for a YT video on how the dula FR experience came off.
I'm betting success,
We will see...
If the VX6 is not too loud in mids, and is clean as the VX8, we might have something here,,,
well I thought SET tubes begin to fall apart as the music grows in complexity??
Yes I have good bass from the UX250,
Not sure how much the COBALT trans come in to play here.
But I am not missing either fq end ranges.
UPDATE DHL is delivering the DLVX6 today,, look for a YT video on how the dula FR experience came off.
I'm betting success,
We will see...
If the VX6 is not too loud in mids, and is clean as the VX8, we might have something here,,,
No. With pp you get more power and a wider bandwidth as the opt doesn't need an airgap so you don't need as many turns on the primary to get the necessary inductance to load the tube for a useful lf roll off and with less windings you have less winding capacitance to screw up hf roll off.
That's simplified but you get the idea.
"fall apart as the music grows in complexity" is something I interpret as limited slew rate -> limited hf extension. Again simplified. It is well possible to build a proper se amp with a 50 as output. If a hifi system doesn't play anything from girl with guitar hifi show bullcrap to grindcore, full orchestra and rap, then at least part of it is broken.
Perhaps this way of thinking is influenced by non-linearity.. the complexity aspect by IMD.
Which of course is not a fair label for SET itself, and maybe not even in general. Besides, complexity issues can be speaker related.
Falling apart is typicallywhat happens when you approach clipping. And most SE tube amplifiers do not have much power. They also tend to compress before clipping and this too can be heard as you approach the “falling apart” bit.
Speaker, amplifier and the connection between them are a system. They have to mate well.
dave
Speaker, amplifier and the connection between them are a system. They have to mate well.
dave
WEll addinga 2nd FR to the system, might not work for jazz fans that love the super magic ofa SET + single FR driver.
I agree, What you gain addinga 2nd FR is dynamics.
For my classical muisc the 2nd FR opens up nuances and details that a single FR misses out.
CM is my main music genre so the dual Fr will stay permanent.
You can judge for youself
DavidLouis VX8 + DavidLouis VX6 Dual Full Range - YouTube
I agree, What you gain addinga 2nd FR is dynamics.
For my classical muisc the 2nd FR opens up nuances and details that a single FR misses out.
CM is my main music genre so the dual Fr will stay permanent.
You can judge for youself
DavidLouis VX8 + DavidLouis VX6 Dual Full Range - YouTube
I just had a short look at that video. It's hard to tell anything from that but room acoustics seem to be an issue. That can very well also be a factor for "complex music falling apart".
Did you just parallel the two drivers or are you using a crossover? If you just paralleled them the loading of the output tubes changed considerably which *might* be the dominating factor in what you are hearing (more distortion).
Did you just parallel the two drivers or are you using a crossover? If you just paralleled them the loading of the output tubes changed considerably which *might* be the dominating factor in what you are hearing (more distortion).
Nothing in the music is fallimng apart,
Trust me, dual FR is the way to go, But this dual FR will only work under specific parimeters, You just can't hook up any old dual Fr drivers.
The 2 drivers have to match... can't go into specifics now,,already explained somewhere else on the DIY site.
Trust me, sounds stunning, Best sound I've ever heard, In fact, my speaker system sounds best in the world, 2nd to none.
Yes I do really believe I have the worlds best sounding speaker. FR only, not horns in comparison. Some people like horns, Horns are **interesting** but thats it, can't live witha horn.
But easily beats any xover style speaker, Stat/ESL yuckkkk
Trust me, dual FR is the way to go, But this dual FR will only work under specific parimeters, You just can't hook up any old dual Fr drivers.
The 2 drivers have to match... can't go into specifics now,,already explained somewhere else on the DIY site.
Trust me, sounds stunning, Best sound I've ever heard, In fact, my speaker system sounds best in the world, 2nd to none.
Yes I do really believe I have the worlds best sounding speaker. FR only, not horns in comparison. Some people like horns, Horns are **interesting** but thats it, can't live witha horn.
But easily beats any xover style speaker, Stat/ESL yuckkkk
I do not believe in horn type cabinet nor back horn, nor any type of complex type chamber,, like my Seas Thors have.
Just a simple retangle box, ports top and bottom for dual FR, witha small piece of ply on a 45 degree angle at both bottoms to reflect off sound waves. Bingo you are done.
Yep straight out the box, took out the 2 screws holding the Seas W18 ,, in goes the DLVX6, perfect fit,, 2 screws,,testing,, WINNER, Cugab Cigan and a bottle of French Bordeaux.
Now going to cut hole in the DLVX8 50 liter cabineyt,, plug in the VX6 and done, Finished.
Fast N easy
Philips tweeter in a separate mini cabinet sits on top, bam,
Done
Seas Thor cabinet retired to junk pile, Dual seas W18
's up for sale, 1/2 price. Thats 4 drivers, little use, 15 yrs old, only classical, no hard rock,
Seas W19E001 best midwoofer ever invented, 2nd to none.
Just PM me.
Mpre videos comming.
Testing is showing excellent results.
Dual FR + SET is the only way to listen/enjoy music.
xover type speakers are trash/garbage.
This week I will try to share my opinions on how to impliment a Dual FR design. Its quite easy really, no complex caniets,, just any old cabinet will work just fine.
You can't just stick any 2 FR drivers ina cabinet and expect success.
Does not work that way.
Only certain drivers quality.
Truth be told, only Davidlouis offers the 2 drivers that can pair up for a successful Dual FR system.
I've looked over
AER
Voxativ
Cube
Fostex
Tang Band
Only Fostex has slight possibility.
I have not heard a Fos other than YT videos, So its hard to judge, but honestly I dont think ,,well tell ya what, Fos would work, thing is, which 2?
Fostex offers so many models.
AND you need 2 that have zero weaknesses/flaws.
This is critical
Neither DavidLouis has flaws.
Which is why it paired up to a success.
Both drivers must be purely neutral.
Tang band comes close, but suffers from the beaming effect.
maybe their 1808/175 + a W4 or W6 might work, In fact IMHO you will have more success with Tang Band than Fostex.
But neither TB nor Fostex will surpass the DavidLouis Duo.
Seas W18E001 , a quad in excellent condition up for sale, 1/2 price.
You can't just stick any 2 FR drivers ina cabinet and expect success.
Does not work that way.
Only certain drivers quality.
Truth be told, only Davidlouis offers the 2 drivers that can pair up for a successful Dual FR system.
I've looked over
AER
Voxativ
Cube
Fostex
Tang Band
Only Fostex has slight possibility.
I have not heard a Fos other than YT videos, So its hard to judge, but honestly I dont think ,,well tell ya what, Fos would work, thing is, which 2?
Fostex offers so many models.
AND you need 2 that have zero weaknesses/flaws.
This is critical
Neither DavidLouis has flaws.
Which is why it paired up to a success.
Both drivers must be purely neutral.
Tang band comes close, but suffers from the beaming effect.
maybe their 1808/175 + a W4 or W6 might work, In fact IMHO you will have more success with Tang Band than Fostex.
But neither TB nor Fostex will surpass the DavidLouis Duo.
Seas W18E001 , a quad in excellent condition up for sale, 1/2 price.