😕 Not to my knowledge. Does something in the HR screen suggest this? Maybe I missed something (very possible).
Look at TH value, it says 2P (2 drivers in parallel) and under that you see 2 x SD. Besides that, these are the parameters of the old version of the 3015lf... But at least you understand my first question now and that it becomes a little foggy. 😀
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OMG! I was unaware that driver arrangement doesn't reset to "1" when creating a new enclosure. I bet it's due to pressing "add" after a PPSL design I modeled. My apologies. Now I must go back to readjust parameters. The response I was getting looked too good to pass up. Now I know why 🙁
Here's what Eric gave me to work with. The driver parameters are different from both old & new spec sheets I have. He suggested S values to range from 1000-1500.
ID=28.00
Ang=2.0 x Pi
Eg=44.72
Rg=0.00
Fta=0.00
S1=1100.00
S2=1100.00
Par=0.10
F12=0.00
S2=1100.00
S3=1100.00
Par=0.10
F23=0.00
S3=1100.00
S4=1100.00
Par=220.00
F34=0.00
S4=1100.00
S5=1100.00
Par=20.00
F45=0.00
Sd=881.10
Bl=17.00
Cms=1.36E-04
Rms=2.99
Mmd=82.73
Le=1.87
Re=5.50
TH=1
Vrc=0.00
Lrc=0.00
Ap1=0.00
Lpt=0.00
Vtc=4000.00
Atc=880.00
Pmax=100
Xmax=5.0
Here's what Eric gave me to work with. The driver parameters are different from both old & new spec sheets I have. He suggested S values to range from 1000-1500.
ID=28.00
Ang=2.0 x Pi
Eg=44.72
Rg=0.00
Fta=0.00
S1=1100.00
S2=1100.00
Par=0.10
F12=0.00
S2=1100.00
S3=1100.00
Par=0.10
F23=0.00
S3=1100.00
S4=1100.00
Par=220.00
F34=0.00
S4=1100.00
S5=1100.00
Par=20.00
F45=0.00
Sd=881.10
Bl=17.00
Cms=1.36E-04
Rms=2.99
Mmd=82.73
Le=1.87
Re=5.50
TH=1
Vrc=0.00
Lrc=0.00
Ap1=0.00
Lpt=0.00
Vtc=4000.00
Atc=880.00
Pmax=100
Xmax=5.0
correct.
a straigt pipe ranging from 1100 to 1500 cm2
@ 1500 giving the most eff,down low,but also more group delay there.1 drvr a cab.
i simmed both boxes and as expected there is not much difference ,the symetric model 1 having +.5db on 35 hz and the standart model 2 having + 1 db in the midle area.
i prefer the model 1 because i think the cone wil be symetricly stressed(remember 4pyros probs)
but bot wil work fine,especialy corner loaded.
about the ts ,1 or 2 parameters must be of i think its sd and/or bl. but it doesnt make much difference in the sim.
grtz erik
a straigt pipe ranging from 1100 to 1500 cm2
@ 1500 giving the most eff,down low,but also more group delay there.1 drvr a cab.
i simmed both boxes and as expected there is not much difference ,the symetric model 1 having +.5db on 35 hz and the standart model 2 having + 1 db in the midle area.
i prefer the model 1 because i think the cone wil be symetricly stressed(remember 4pyros probs)
but bot wil work fine,especialy corner loaded.
about the ts ,1 or 2 parameters must be of i think its sd and/or bl. but it doesnt make much difference in the sim.
grtz erik
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Hi Crescendo and Epa,
Maybe it's an idea to enlarge the mouth to 4000cm^2 (or as large as the total front of the cab). The little loss at low end in favour for a gain of 2dB overall is something I should consider. In max SPL there is even more to gain than 2dB because the excursion lowers also with a 4000cm^2 mouth. The excursion max transfers from 44Hz to 50Hz (remember Fs of the driver is 44Hz) and the group delay imporves slightly. All in all that means significant less stress for the driver.
Maybe it's an idea to enlarge the mouth to 4000cm^2 (or as large as the total front of the cab). The little loss at low end in favour for a gain of 2dB overall is something I should consider. In max SPL there is even more to gain than 2dB because the excursion lowers also with a 4000cm^2 mouth. The excursion max transfers from 44Hz to 50Hz (remember Fs of the driver is 44Hz) and the group delay imporves slightly. All in all that means significant less stress for the driver.
I might as well build epa's tbx box or Xoc1's 6 fold and load them w/3015LFs with an adapter ring until I have sufficient funds to purchase the proper 18" drivers. The 3015LF seems to model not so bad in either enclosure. Does the delay look a bit odd? What do you think?
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Wouldn't worry about the delays too much but so far nobody showed me any SPL measurement that proved the 3015lf is capable of controlled excursion more than 8.0mm (that was 8mm with high pwr compression figures).
That is a very important thing to consider. I don't think I saw excursion go past that with my SS15s using ~600W with both 30Hz & 50Hz sinewaves & deep dubstep (HPF LR24 @ 32Hz +3-4dB EQ @ 30 & 40Hz). I'll readjust input power to match more realistic displacement numbers and get back to you gents.
Excursion is in the first place load related. The lower the low corner, the higher the excursion becomes (with the same power). The smaller the mouth the lower the SPL (efficiency of the system).
Also look at the point you need to EQ in realtion to excursion peaks. You don't want to EQ (adding gain) there where excursion max is. Also think of what Djk said, most energy is used between 40 and 60Hz (that also counts for most Dubstep tracks).
The response will lower ~3dB, but the spl differences and freq responses remain the same in comparison. So, what I was getting at is that it looks like these 3015LFs will be fine in either of the enclosures mentioned, without sacrificing much LF at all + Erik won't need to spend a lot of time designing yet another enclosure and one wouldn't need to build another enclosure to accept the higher power, higher quality 18" driver(s). What are your thoughts?
Go for Eric’s 'straight tube' with large horn mouth since it has the best balanced system for your drivers and I really like his symmetric (central) mouth setting. The highest sensitivity figure, the highest system efficiency and still provides decent low end extension. -3dB around 38hz in sim. This will be at cost of an earlier roll-off but the roll-off will be less steep.
Theoretically you should reach Xmax with 315W so with 600W max per cab you should be able to get everything out of that driver and stay within the safety zone as long you don't start "freakin' pumping" like some DJ's do.
The straight tube with small mouth is 2dB lower in efficiency between 40Hz and cross over point. With the small mouth theoretically you will reach Xmax with 259W so 600W is
. At max SPL it will be 3dB lower where you need it, 40Hz to 60Hz. 2dB loss from smaller mouth size and 1dB because the excursion is higher in the smaller mouth version.
In other words, a larger mouth gains up to 3dB between 40Hz and 60Hz at the cost of an earlier (but more gentle) roll off.
Theoretically you should reach Xmax with 315W so with 600W max per cab you should be able to get everything out of that driver and stay within the safety zone as long you don't start "freakin' pumping" like some DJ's do.
The straight tube with small mouth is 2dB lower in efficiency between 40Hz and cross over point. With the small mouth theoretically you will reach Xmax with 259W so 600W is
. At max SPL it will be 3dB lower where you need it, 40Hz to 60Hz. 2dB loss from smaller mouth size and 1dB because the excursion is higher in the smaller mouth version.In other words, a larger mouth gains up to 3dB between 40Hz and 60Hz at the cost of an earlier (but more gentle) roll off.
hi all
i did some simming,if you increase s5 area the cab volume increase with 50 ltrs (sim).
to compensate i have to reduce the the other area,s to get to the same cab volume.
also need to extend the horn path to get te excursion dip back 33 hz (single cab)
then i put more power in to get to the same excursion figure.
we should consider that justen probaply uses them in 3's or 6 .
however there is still a debate on f3 extension vs multiple subs.:]
i did some simming,if you increase s5 area the cab volume increase with 50 ltrs (sim).
to compensate i have to reduce the the other area,s to get to the same cab volume.
also need to extend the horn path to get te excursion dip back 33 hz (single cab)
then i put more power in to get to the same excursion figure.
we should consider that justen probaply uses them in 3's or 6 .
however there is still a debate on f3 extension vs multiple subs.:]
Yes, I have a habit of checking this. It can definitely be a deal maker/breaker.
True, but I need to keep in mind that many of the tracks we play have plenty of information at and below 30Hz to worry about.
overlooked post 509
yes for future consideration ,its posible.
but what wil you do with the 3015 in the future.
how long are you thinking wil that futere be .
why not use cheap underlayment 18 mm for the time being,and sell them as a whole cab in the future.
you might be suprised with the 3015 preformance with 6 wel tuned boxes.
just my 2 cents,
grtz erik
yes for future consideration ,its posible.
but what wil you do with the 3015 in the future.
how long are you thinking wil that futere be .
why not use cheap underlayment 18 mm for the time being,and sell them as a whole cab in the future.
you might be suprised with the 3015 preformance with 6 wel tuned boxes.
just my 2 cents,
grtz erik
Hi Eric,
Indeed we should consider he uses them in stacks of 3 and power's them with 600W per cab! If you lower the excursion dip to 33Hz he will overpower them and more important, he will not get 128dB (average) per stack in reality. 8mm is about the max peak excursion (with severe dynamic compr.) a 3015lf has to offer.
The debate of stacks is about acoustic coupling which is something else. If you use Neo Dan's method, by positioning the cabs under a corner, you extend the path physically! by 0.6 It's the same as using an extender and that's why Dan's method does work.
His symmetrical version does seem to be the better of the two.
"Freakin' pumping"? I'm unfamiliar with this term
I don't have your HR inputs to directly compare what I've been working with to your outcome. I did increase the mouth to 4000cm^2, but our traces are different (obviously).
I could sell them, build more SS15s or use the straight pipes for a secondary system.
Future? Maybe March/April or a bit after. We'll see how things go.
I could definitely consider building w/aurauco 0.7" and selling the cabs. But, I may just keep them as a secondary system. Maybe for shows that have more than 1 room. Or for when the need calls for 2 different rentals, etc.
Looks like the symmetrical version is pulling ahead. The 3015LFs will probably be happier (less stressed), as well 🙂
Here are comparisons of 'Erik's straight pipe mod w/3015LF' (5 posts back) and his 'tbx box loaded w/3015LF' both @ 8mm. I also compared the '3015LF-loaded tbx box' to the straight pipe (S1, 2, 3 & 4 = 1500; S5 = 4000cm^2) and used Erik's initial L/par settings for the straight pipe.
