Saw a link to this site on Romys site and thought you may be interested.
I think it uses the driver you were considering for > 300 Hz.
Affordable Horn System | Marc HENRY Systeme a pavillon | France
Rgds
Barry
I think it uses the driver you were considering for > 300 Hz.
Affordable Horn System | Marc HENRY Systeme a pavillon | France
Rgds
Barry
Hi Barry , Hope all is well with you , we are still alive and kicking here - 🙂 At present I am using my NHT3.3 Commercial speakers, but I will be selling them very soon. My next speaker project is in motion - I bought and picked up a pair of Wharfedale W70 Speakers that I am Restoring/Modding --- there are 60 year old caps in the crossover as well as the 60 year old dual L-Pads - (for Tweeter and Midrange level control) - - all need to be replaced - they have seen better days - LOL. I am going to use PIO Caps for replacement of the old original electrolytic caps. I also have a modern custom crossover design I am going to try on the speakers - I will have to see which crossover I like better, the old simple more full range xover or the new modern one. Also I want to get some help from someone with the crossover because after I find the right settings for the L-Pads I would like to replace the L-Pads with the right resistors, but I would like to set it up so I can change out the resistor like they do in the Pure Audio Open Baffle Speakers - - they use simple old fashion screw terminals for the crossover parts , so it's just a matter of unscrewing the screws and replacing the resister with a different one - about a 2 minute job. That way both myself and the person I will sell them to, can easily tune them to his room and tastes.... just not sure what the crossover will look like yet - I'm new to crossovers - - Luckily they are a very simple xover , just a cap on the Super 3 Tweeter/Midrange which is a 3.5 inch driver. And a Cap , Resister and Inductor on the 8 inch Alnico - Midrange/Woofer. The 12 inch Alnico Woofer is the most complicated part of the simple crossover - it has 6 parts to it , an Inductor and an EQ circuit ... don't know what it's for yet - LOL --- They are 24 inches tall, by 22 in. wide by 13 in. deep.. I plan on putting a box around the mid-woof because right now i think it's getting a lot of interference from the big woofer. I also have an idea on another mod to do on them , one of the guys on the Audiokarma Forum had the drivers all tested to find there Theil- Small parameters and found that the woofer would perform much better in at least a 5 cubic foot box, and larger would be better - right now it's around 3 cubic feet I think...... so here's my idea - I found a really great deal on another set of the same 12 inch Alnico woofers to add the speakers. I was going to rebuild the speakers and add the second woofers to the fronts of the boxes for even a better low end .... but they are pretty nice looking - the pictures don't do them justice. So now I'm currently thinking that I don't want to mess up the profile of the speaker box from the front by maybe adding that second woofer. So now I'm considering a crazy idea to try ... I'm thinking of adding a thin section to the back of speaker box - maybe 10 inches or so deep, slanted down to the floor (so smaller on the top of the box than the bottom) and placing each of the second woofers in those additions so that they will make the front set of woofers think they are in a Much Bigger box ( almost like an infinite baffle) - and perform much better.
So to un-confuse something I said at the beginning, the reason I bought these W70's was kind of a proof of concept - they were a great deal - just $200.00 for the pair which is less than half of what they could have sold for which is about $400 - $500.00 --- they were local pick up only ..... I wanted to see if I liked them as much as I thought I would from reading lots of other peoples descriptions. ............. My ultimate goal was if I liked these enough i wanted to build their Bigger Bigger Brother it's called a SFB-3 .
When Quad came out with their revolutionary model 57 electrostic speakers , Wharfedale needed to compete with Quad's speaker so they designed a very cool Ultra Dynamic version of the Quad 57 using regular piston drivers. that speaker is their SFB-3 Speaker - unfortunately they are kind of rare and 1,500 to 2,000 dollars a pair - ( if you can find them ) - and probably $400- $600 to ship -- even the drivers are expensive and hard to find , Ill have to be patient and get lucky.
So after I have some fun restoring and improving My W70's I will probably sell them and clone the Wharfedale SFB-3 speaker! - I am currently trying to collect the six or eight 60 year old speaker drivers that I will need for them. I am quite amazed at how Great the W70's sound considering they are 60 years old and have messed up parts in them!!!!! - LOL ........ -- oh I also have discovered that as nice as the Vintage speaker grills look - ( they look great in person), they are too dense and not letting the speaker sound it's best, So since they don't look very good naked - I want to change the way the grills are attached to the front & go to embedded Neo magnets and then build a second set of grills to exchange to when listening to the speakers. I also am going to refinish them too.
I don't have pictures of the Open baffle's using the Zenith drivers yet - i haven't decided on a design... so many choices , too many cool designs to choose from ... and I am also trying to make a decision on my woofer - and subwoofer choices.
-- I will include the 12 inch Zenith 49cz852 driver pics - but they aren't much to look at by themselves - LOL
-- more next time , i seem to get carried away writing - 😀
-- see pictures below --
Zenith 49cz852 Speaker drivers are up first ----
So to un-confuse something I said at the beginning, the reason I bought these W70's was kind of a proof of concept - they were a great deal - just $200.00 for the pair which is less than half of what they could have sold for which is about $400 - $500.00 --- they were local pick up only ..... I wanted to see if I liked them as much as I thought I would from reading lots of other peoples descriptions. ............. My ultimate goal was if I liked these enough i wanted to build their Bigger Bigger Brother it's called a SFB-3 .
When Quad came out with their revolutionary model 57 electrostic speakers , Wharfedale needed to compete with Quad's speaker so they designed a very cool Ultra Dynamic version of the Quad 57 using regular piston drivers. that speaker is their SFB-3 Speaker - unfortunately they are kind of rare and 1,500 to 2,000 dollars a pair - ( if you can find them ) - and probably $400- $600 to ship -- even the drivers are expensive and hard to find , Ill have to be patient and get lucky.
So after I have some fun restoring and improving My W70's I will probably sell them and clone the Wharfedale SFB-3 speaker! - I am currently trying to collect the six or eight 60 year old speaker drivers that I will need for them. I am quite amazed at how Great the W70's sound considering they are 60 years old and have messed up parts in them!!!!! - LOL ........ -- oh I also have discovered that as nice as the Vintage speaker grills look - ( they look great in person), they are too dense and not letting the speaker sound it's best, So since they don't look very good naked - I want to change the way the grills are attached to the front & go to embedded Neo magnets and then build a second set of grills to exchange to when listening to the speakers. I also am going to refinish them too.
I don't have pictures of the Open baffle's using the Zenith drivers yet - i haven't decided on a design... so many choices , too many cool designs to choose from ... and I am also trying to make a decision on my woofer - and subwoofer choices.
-- I will include the 12 inch Zenith 49cz852 driver pics - but they aren't much to look at by themselves - LOL
-- more next time , i seem to get carried away writing - 😀
-- see pictures below --
Zenith 49cz852 Speaker drivers are up first ----
Attachments
4 way horn system : a few questions
Hello Mr BA,
Nice move you did with your version of all-horn/vertical axis mid-upperbass horn. A few comments/questions:
Have you also listened to the commercial version? Of course it would be difficult to make any comparison as the drivers and the design compromises are different but…it might be interesting to know if the two designs share some sonic traits and also show significant differences.
About the bass horn:
• The ratio fc / mouth size seems much less compromised than with the commercial version (probably to aim at higher quality midbass at the price of some bass extension?)
• I don’t understand your choice of 13 liters for Vrc (Klipsch/Keele/Leach formulas suggest a Vrc around 25 liters to achieve reactance annulling at fc): how did you ended with this value?
• Did you make use of internal bracing in the horn?
• How did you proceed to adjust the gap between the mouth and the floor?
About the midrange horn:
• 200 Hz also? Tractrix also?
• The commercial version makes uses of a Fostex 5” speaker (probably the FE126 En) with a stiffened diaphragm and a mild (1.7) compression ratio: the 8 cm (3.15 in) throat diameter is consistent with horn loading up to 1250 Hz (upwards, the speaker acts as a direct radiator); this makes sense with the 1500 Hz crossover with the high frequency horn.
• It seems that you made a quite different choice with a near unity ratio for a larger 6” Audax driver and a much larger throat diameter: may I ask you the reason (s) of this choice?
About the filtering:
• Upper midrange horn/UHF transition: did you try without any lowpass on the Fostex compression driver (highpass only) and a 16-18 kHz 6 dB/octave highpass on the 2405 ?
• Did you try the combination time aligning / 6 dB/octave slopes as strongly suggested by different experimenters (Roman Bessnow and others?)
Thank you for your answers; I would be pleased to know more from your attractive realization.
Regards,
Lucfm
Hello Mr BA,
Nice move you did with your version of all-horn/vertical axis mid-upperbass horn. A few comments/questions:
Have you also listened to the commercial version? Of course it would be difficult to make any comparison as the drivers and the design compromises are different but…it might be interesting to know if the two designs share some sonic traits and also show significant differences.
About the bass horn:
• The ratio fc / mouth size seems much less compromised than with the commercial version (probably to aim at higher quality midbass at the price of some bass extension?)
• I don’t understand your choice of 13 liters for Vrc (Klipsch/Keele/Leach formulas suggest a Vrc around 25 liters to achieve reactance annulling at fc): how did you ended with this value?
• Did you make use of internal bracing in the horn?
• How did you proceed to adjust the gap between the mouth and the floor?
About the midrange horn:
• 200 Hz also? Tractrix also?
• The commercial version makes uses of a Fostex 5” speaker (probably the FE126 En) with a stiffened diaphragm and a mild (1.7) compression ratio: the 8 cm (3.15 in) throat diameter is consistent with horn loading up to 1250 Hz (upwards, the speaker acts as a direct radiator); this makes sense with the 1500 Hz crossover with the high frequency horn.
• It seems that you made a quite different choice with a near unity ratio for a larger 6” Audax driver and a much larger throat diameter: may I ask you the reason (s) of this choice?
About the filtering:
• Upper midrange horn/UHF transition: did you try without any lowpass on the Fostex compression driver (highpass only) and a 16-18 kHz 6 dB/octave highpass on the 2405 ?
• Did you try the combination time aligning / 6 dB/octave slopes as strongly suggested by different experimenters (Roman Bessnow and others?)
Thank you for your answers; I would be pleased to know more from your attractive realization.
Regards,
Lucfm
update
Hi Dean, we’re all well thanks, glad to hear you’re ok. Thanks for your update, I had to read it a couple of times, to take it all in.
How are you getting on refurbing Wharfdale W70s ? For critical listening I’ve always removed the grilles, they were mainly there to hide the drivers from children & their friends.
Crossovers – I’m a novice, hence why I’m using a Behringer DCX2496. I’m sure there’ll be plenty of help from other forum members as you need it.
Are you going to build a sand filled baffle ? SFB info here - Wharfedale SFB/3 | Inner Magazines That’s quite a departure from the original thread 😊
Put some photos up as you progress.
I’ve found a nice walnut stain for mine, so far only done one, will put photos up later
Stay safe
Barry
Hi Dean, we’re all well thanks, glad to hear you’re ok. Thanks for your update, I had to read it a couple of times, to take it all in.
How are you getting on refurbing Wharfdale W70s ? For critical listening I’ve always removed the grilles, they were mainly there to hide the drivers from children & their friends.
Crossovers – I’m a novice, hence why I’m using a Behringer DCX2496. I’m sure there’ll be plenty of help from other forum members as you need it.
Are you going to build a sand filled baffle ? SFB info here - Wharfedale SFB/3 | Inner Magazines That’s quite a departure from the original thread 😊
Put some photos up as you progress.
I’ve found a nice walnut stain for mine, so far only done one, will put photos up later
Stay safe
Barry
Hi Lucfm,
Thanks for comments. I’ll try and answer your questions, but I’ve had help along the way, so may not be able to fully answer them. No I have n't listened to the commercial version, but several friends whose ears I trust have.
Bass horn – one of my friends used hornresp to model it for me. We targeted 50 Hz with speakers in the corners, knowing if I needed more bass to look at subs.
Vrc – with the speakers in the middle of the room, we measured it’s response, starting with open top, closed top, then adding more insulation. As we added more insulation (carpet underlay) the response became flatter. My 13 litres is the nett volume after driver & insulation. The insulation is porous so I don’t know how you decide what the actual vrc is, if that makes sense.
There is no internal bracing in the bass horn.
Floor gap –due to corner position, I started with vertical opening equivalent to horn area and then adjusted in 25 mm increments. It probably still isn’t optimised, but it sounds ok to me (and others).
I’ve been buying drivers, parts for several years prior to finishing the design. Original plan was to make it 3 way with all front loaded drivers being horizontal. I had JBL2405, Fostex D232 & horns & Fane drives. Prior to building anything, I realised that bass horn would not work horizontally. Hence why I went vertical.
150 Hz tractrix, because I was aiming to crossover @ 250 Hz. Driver – I knew I had to use an off shelf driver, which would fill the gap & give me flexibility in handing over to Fostex.
I’m using a Behringer DCX2496 which only has 3 outputs / side. For ease I’ve just a cap between Fostex & JBL 2405 to crossover @ 8kHz. I have measurement equipment and use REW but am unsure where to place microphone to get the best results (after measuring each driver on axis @ 1m). Initially I had 6dB slopes everywhere, but there was too much overlap between the drives, hence after reading I settled on LR4. I’ve attempted to time align (post 94) and am willing to be guided by others as how to proceed.
When I decide on what to replace Behringer with my plan is to play with slopes, etc.
What plans do you have ? Any comments are welcome
Stay safe
Barry
Thanks for comments. I’ll try and answer your questions, but I’ve had help along the way, so may not be able to fully answer them. No I have n't listened to the commercial version, but several friends whose ears I trust have.
Bass horn – one of my friends used hornresp to model it for me. We targeted 50 Hz with speakers in the corners, knowing if I needed more bass to look at subs.
Vrc – with the speakers in the middle of the room, we measured it’s response, starting with open top, closed top, then adding more insulation. As we added more insulation (carpet underlay) the response became flatter. My 13 litres is the nett volume after driver & insulation. The insulation is porous so I don’t know how you decide what the actual vrc is, if that makes sense.
There is no internal bracing in the bass horn.
Floor gap –due to corner position, I started with vertical opening equivalent to horn area and then adjusted in 25 mm increments. It probably still isn’t optimised, but it sounds ok to me (and others).
I’ve been buying drivers, parts for several years prior to finishing the design. Original plan was to make it 3 way with all front loaded drivers being horizontal. I had JBL2405, Fostex D232 & horns & Fane drives. Prior to building anything, I realised that bass horn would not work horizontally. Hence why I went vertical.
150 Hz tractrix, because I was aiming to crossover @ 250 Hz. Driver – I knew I had to use an off shelf driver, which would fill the gap & give me flexibility in handing over to Fostex.
I’m using a Behringer DCX2496 which only has 3 outputs / side. For ease I’ve just a cap between Fostex & JBL 2405 to crossover @ 8kHz. I have measurement equipment and use REW but am unsure where to place microphone to get the best results (after measuring each driver on axis @ 1m). Initially I had 6dB slopes everywhere, but there was too much overlap between the drives, hence after reading I settled on LR4. I’ve attempted to time align (post 94) and am willing to be guided by others as how to proceed.
When I decide on what to replace Behringer with my plan is to play with slopes, etc.
What plans do you have ? Any comments are welcome
Stay safe
Barry
plans
Hi Barry,
Thanks for your response.
Did these friends whose ears you trust made comment about the subjective perception of the two designs (sonic similitude and significant differences)?
Bass horn: I understand the need to experiment and measure (probably speaker impedance) in order to determine the optimum Vrc. Did you feel a “night and day difference” once the correct closed box volume was achieved? Same thing with the floor gap. There’s possibly an amount of “mass loading” used in the commercial products (vertical opening area lower than the horn mouth area). I have to investigate that in studying the anima design as this feature is incorporated in Hornresp.
Plans? I think the vertical bass horn is, indeed, the way to follow for several reasons. I’m trying to understand the compromises in order to limit the amount of experimentation and number of horn construction!
I have collected a few drivers (JBL Le85 (2420), 2405, Fostex Fe 126 En, Fane studio 8M, Peavey 15 in unknown midbass and 22A compression driver both coming from a Peavey SP3, to play with and could also try the Precision Device bass 15 in and the B & C compression driver presumably used in the anima. In this last eventuality I would limit the number of channels to three.
At present time I’m evaluating the impact resulting from different choices in term of fc for the different horns. I made a excel spreadsheet based on the “revisited tractrix” that allows me to manipulate different parameters in order to achieve the smoother transition (same tangent angle) between the chosen CD exit and the horn throat. The system would be tested at least initially in mono amplification with an integrated Cayin 500 that I own using FU29 tetrodes. The wood bass horn construction would be similar to yours. For the upper horns I have not yet decided between papier mache and fiber reinforced plaster. If necessary the "monitoring" output could later feed a stereo bass channel inspired by the self-powered "seismic sub" by B. Edgar, with less folding and a different look. Well, that looks like long term plans!
Thank you for keeping us informed of the evolution of your inspiring realization…and yes, stay safe!
Best regards,
Luc
Hi Barry,
Thanks for your response.
Did these friends whose ears you trust made comment about the subjective perception of the two designs (sonic similitude and significant differences)?
Bass horn: I understand the need to experiment and measure (probably speaker impedance) in order to determine the optimum Vrc. Did you feel a “night and day difference” once the correct closed box volume was achieved? Same thing with the floor gap. There’s possibly an amount of “mass loading” used in the commercial products (vertical opening area lower than the horn mouth area). I have to investigate that in studying the anima design as this feature is incorporated in Hornresp.
Plans? I think the vertical bass horn is, indeed, the way to follow for several reasons. I’m trying to understand the compromises in order to limit the amount of experimentation and number of horn construction!
I have collected a few drivers (JBL Le85 (2420), 2405, Fostex Fe 126 En, Fane studio 8M, Peavey 15 in unknown midbass and 22A compression driver both coming from a Peavey SP3, to play with and could also try the Precision Device bass 15 in and the B & C compression driver presumably used in the anima. In this last eventuality I would limit the number of channels to three.
At present time I’m evaluating the impact resulting from different choices in term of fc for the different horns. I made a excel spreadsheet based on the “revisited tractrix” that allows me to manipulate different parameters in order to achieve the smoother transition (same tangent angle) between the chosen CD exit and the horn throat. The system would be tested at least initially in mono amplification with an integrated Cayin 500 that I own using FU29 tetrodes. The wood bass horn construction would be similar to yours. For the upper horns I have not yet decided between papier mache and fiber reinforced plaster. If necessary the "monitoring" output could later feed a stereo bass channel inspired by the self-powered "seismic sub" by B. Edgar, with less folding and a different look. Well, that looks like long term plans!
Thank you for keeping us informed of the evolution of your inspiring realization…and yes, stay safe!
Best regards,
Luc
- Hi Luc, thanks for stopping by and taking part in the discussion - How far have gotten in your tests/ Are starting with the bass horn , midrange, or all at the same time? -
- I have been thinking of the same design , keeping it in the back of my mind ...... you sure have a lot better understanding of the math involved than I do - I disliked math so much - (or maybe it was the boring teacher) that during Algebra and geometry , instead of doing the work in 8th and 9th grade I spent most of my time reading Sci-Fi books!! - I just couldn't figure out what it all was good for ... especially since I found it frustrating and boring..... Of coarse NOW that I see it is so important to speaker/Horn design ---- I'm clueless - LOL
- I'm more of a hands on guy.... 😀
- Could you share with us the speaker drivers that you think are used in the Anima, I know you said that you thought the Midrange was a modded fostex Mid - FE 126....? - What are you guessing that the Tweeter and Woofer are?
- That Fane driver is supposed to be very nice -
- I have been thinking of the same design , keeping it in the back of my mind ...... you sure have a lot better understanding of the math involved than I do - I disliked math so much - (or maybe it was the boring teacher) that during Algebra and geometry , instead of doing the work in 8th and 9th grade I spent most of my time reading Sci-Fi books!! - I just couldn't figure out what it all was good for ... especially since I found it frustrating and boring..... Of coarse NOW that I see it is so important to speaker/Horn design ---- I'm clueless - LOL
- I'm more of a hands on guy.... 😀
- Could you share with us the speaker drivers that you think are used in the Anima, I know you said that you thought the Midrange was a modded fostex Mid - FE 126....? - What are you guessing that the Tweeter and Woofer are?
- That Fane driver is supposed to be very nice -
Hi Luc,
The good feedback on the commercial offering, gave me the courage to go ahead and make something. So far only one of my friends who has heard both has been round, but that was in the early days of me still tweaking and I did n't ask for a comparison. Re - Vrc- the measurements were carried with no listening, we just kept reducing volume until the frequency response was as flat as possible. The measurements are repeatable.
For the floor gap, I would like to make more attractive feet, with better built in height adjustment.
Have you measured the response of any of your drivers?
Kind Regards
Barry
Guesstimate (speakers)
Hi Dean,
Not yet (design phase)
- Could you share with us the speaker drivers that you think are used in the Anima, I know you said that you thought the Midrange was a modded fostex Mid - FE 126....? - What are you guessing that the Tweeter and Woofer are?
by crossing the information from various available sources and various forums (fora) with the data available in the manufacturers' catalogs, I suppose that the loudspeakers used could be:
- The 15 in Precision Device PD153C001
- The 5 in Fostex Fe 126 En for midrange “which additionally has been treated by the manufacturer. The front is fitted with nail hardeners, while the back is reinforced with carbon fiber. According to the manufacturer, had to address the problems created due to the break-up of the cone, due to high pressure conditions in which the speaker is subject.”
- For the one inch Italian B & C compression driver, two models could match the known specifications…and the visual aspect: DE 400TN-8, DE500-8 (or a more recent model intended to replace the DE 500, from which it differs by the geometry of the titanium membrane but share the same sonic signature).
Best regards,
Luc
Hi Dean,
-
Not yet (design phase)
- Could you share with us the speaker drivers that you think are used in the Anima, I know you said that you thought the Midrange was a modded fostex Mid - FE 126....? - What are you guessing that the Tweeter and Woofer are?
by crossing the information from various available sources and various forums (fora) with the data available in the manufacturers' catalogs, I suppose that the loudspeakers used could be:
- The 15 in Precision Device PD153C001
- The 5 in Fostex Fe 126 En for midrange “which additionally has been treated by the manufacturer. The front is fitted with nail hardeners, while the back is reinforced with carbon fiber. According to the manufacturer, had to address the problems created due to the break-up of the cone, due to high pressure conditions in which the speaker is subject.”
- For the one inch Italian B & C compression driver, two models could match the known specifications…and the visual aspect: DE 400TN-8, DE500-8 (or a more recent model intended to replace the DE 500, from which it differs by the geometry of the titanium membrane but share the same sonic signature).
Best regards,
Luc
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks...
Thanks for the precisions.
Nice work.
No, I've not measured the drivers response yet.
Kind regards,
Luc
Thanks for the precisions.
Nice work.
No, I've not measured the drivers response yet.
Kind regards,
Luc
- Hi Barry, sorry I've been out of the action for a while, Hope you and the family are still doing well? Have you gotten any further with the Horns? - The Walnut stain looks nice! ...... I been busy dealing with my cancer, and other health issues ..... along with the rest of life - LOL. , Because of my several health issues my immune system is pretty compromised so we are pretty much hermits these days... basically we only go out for food and doctors appointments... - I don't buy in to a lot of the information that the news is reporting , but After researching things , it looks like covid19 is 3 times more dangerous to people over 55 , those with diabetes, and people who's immune system is compromised, ---- ha, ha, I'm over 55, have diabetes, immune system is compromised by Hep C , Chronic Progressive Fibromyalgia, and I have cancer - LOL - LOL - LOL .... I just have to laugh !!
- Looks like I might have my NHT 3.3 speakers sold , several very interested parties! - Also I finally figured out what was wrong with my VTL Deluxe MB300 Monoblock Amplifiers! - It was just a Horrible ground Loop problem - something I have never encountered before!! - I really thought they were damaged - so glad they aren't! I finally got to listen to them again with my NHT's .... I had forgotten how good they sound together! .... I almost canceled the Ads... Ha-Ha . But now that the VTL's are playing again they will probably go on sale soon too. I just hope I can build amplifiers that will sound as good as they do!
- I finally have most of the parts to start restoring the Wharfedale W70's , picked up some very nice Duelund wire to rewire them I'm just trying to work out the best way to include to sets of capacitors in the design, what I would like to do is put in both the Precision Metal Film caps, and a set of PIO caps and some way to switch between the two that doesn't affect the sound quality too much.
- Looks like I might have my NHT 3.3 speakers sold , several very interested parties! - Also I finally figured out what was wrong with my VTL Deluxe MB300 Monoblock Amplifiers! - It was just a Horrible ground Loop problem - something I have never encountered before!! - I really thought they were damaged - so glad they aren't! I finally got to listen to them again with my NHT's .... I had forgotten how good they sound together! .... I almost canceled the Ads... Ha-Ha . But now that the VTL's are playing again they will probably go on sale soon too. I just hope I can build amplifiers that will sound as good as they do!
- I finally have most of the parts to start restoring the Wharfedale W70's , picked up some very nice Duelund wire to rewire them I'm just trying to work out the best way to include to sets of capacitors in the design, what I would like to do is put in both the Precision Metal Film caps, and a set of PIO caps and some way to switch between the two that doesn't affect the sound quality too much.
Hi Dean,
Good to hear from you again, I don't blame you for living like a hermit. We have n't been going out much (March - Aug), but are back at work now. Whilst working from home, I spent a lot of free time landscaping the garden.
I started a new thread when the chance to buy an Apogee Rosetta came up. It sounds really good and I've got people wanting to come round to listen to it, but we're not letting them. Further details including photos here - Apogee Rosetta 800 +
The advice has been brilliant.
I'm currently exploring buying an 8 way volume control or making one.
Good to hear from you again, I don't blame you for living like a hermit. We have n't been going out much (March - Aug), but are back at work now. Whilst working from home, I spent a lot of free time landscaping the garden.
I started a new thread when the chance to buy an Apogee Rosetta came up. It sounds really good and I've got people wanting to come round to listen to it, but we're not letting them. Further details including photos here - Apogee Rosetta 800 +
The advice has been brilliant.
I'm currently exploring buying an 8 way volume control or making one.
- Hi Barry .. Wow that was a score! - I've never heard of the unit before but after reading through the first couple of pages in the link, it sounds like it sounds amazing - ( pardon the pun ........ it was just for fun ) - LOL
- it looks like you found a great solution to your problem ... seems like some Good advice too on your thread...
- I was wondering where you found the unit to buy? -
- After reading some of the thread it does sound pretty complicated , a little over my head maybe........... I am still trying to find a way to set up an Active crossover setup too - I don't know what to use at the moment ........ If you ever come across something that would work for me , please let me know - I am still planning on building the set of horn speakers.
Thank you,
Best regards, Dean
- it looks like you found a great solution to your problem ... seems like some Good advice too on your thread...
- I was wondering where you found the unit to buy? -
- After reading some of the thread it does sound pretty complicated , a little over my head maybe........... I am still trying to find a way to set up an Active crossover setup too - I don't know what to use at the moment ........ If you ever come across something that would work for me , please let me know - I am still planning on building the set of horn speakers.
Thank you,
Best regards, Dean
Luckily one of my friends told me about it. The icing on the cake was the seller sold me his PC with Lynx aes16 card to connect to it and came and demoed it. 😀
With hindsight, I made life hard for myself by going 4 way, so the best advice I can give you is to go 2 or 3 way. There are more crossover solutions available compared to 4 ways like mine.
You should be able pick up a dbx / behringer "loudspeaker system management unit" second hand to play with and be an introduction. You can measure the drivers + horns and settle on crossover points, slopes, etc.
You can then decide whether to make an analogue crossover or go further into the digital world.
It will be good if you've got your NHT 3.3 sold. In the UK, from now to Christmas is usually the best time to sell hi-fi, is it the same with you?
I think you're making life too complicated for yourself by trying to be able to use switches between two 4 way crossovers with different components in. I would build the crossover with standard parts, then once you're happy with the measured response, change the caps, resistors, etc for "fancy" stuff.
As you start building things and putting photos into the thread, I'm sure you'll get more advice on this forum.
Stay safe, kind regards Barry
With hindsight, I made life hard for myself by going 4 way, so the best advice I can give you is to go 2 or 3 way. There are more crossover solutions available compared to 4 ways like mine.
You should be able pick up a dbx / behringer "loudspeaker system management unit" second hand to play with and be an introduction. You can measure the drivers + horns and settle on crossover points, slopes, etc.
You can then decide whether to make an analogue crossover or go further into the digital world.
It will be good if you've got your NHT 3.3 sold. In the UK, from now to Christmas is usually the best time to sell hi-fi, is it the same with you?
I think you're making life too complicated for yourself by trying to be able to use switches between two 4 way crossovers with different components in. I would build the crossover with standard parts, then once you're happy with the measured response, change the caps, resistors, etc for "fancy" stuff.
As you start building things and putting photos into the thread, I'm sure you'll get more advice on this forum.
Stay safe, kind regards Barry
- Hi Barry, , , , Funny I was writing the post about the Wharfedale w70's above and went to post it then realized I had made a mistake so I hit the edit button, and then decide to write some more stuff......... then when I hit the post button and it said I took to long and cut a bunch of what I had written out .... LOL
------ about the crossover toggle switch - ( or maybe a separate set of speaker Binding Posts)........ The w70 is really a simple 2 way , ( it almost doesn't qualify as a crossover ) --- The 12 inch woofers are run full range because they naturally roll off. So the teeter and midrange are it, the tweeter has One cap, the midrange has One cap and an inductor - couldn't be simpler , I am just voicing the speaker with two choices switching the Two capacitors from Audiophile Poly Film caps to PIO Capacitors , the Idea is to give the myself, but more importantly the new owner a choice of sound....... ( oh and they each have an L-Pad too : )
- So my second set of 12 inch Wharfedale woofers arrived so the next step is to build another set of sand filled back walls, so I can install the new woofers into them as an Isobaric design , which should make the first 12 inch woofer think it is in a speaker box that is about twice the size as it is in now - for much Better BASS! - but it can be exchanged with the original back if the buyer wants it to be stock. ---- you never know about people ..... ha ha
- I'm also adding a second set of binding posts so it can be Bi-wired or Bi-amped. I also found good replacement L-Pads for the two L-Pads for the tweeter and Midrange on each speaker. . . . . Then I have to decide how to refinish them, i could go with new veneer, or just sand them and re-stain them.... should be interesting I haven't done much refinishing.
- I have recently come across several conversations regarding the fact that most of the current speaker Binding posts actually take a real chunk of the speakers sound quality away! The problem is, it is usually a much larger chunk of metal then the Speaker cable , or the wire inside the speaker... and people that have bypassed the binding post and just soldered the speaker cable directly to the drivers all report a jump in detail and sound quality......
- GR Research has a great set of binding posts that are an answer to that problem -- they are 59.00 a pair - (which is pretty reasonable) - But it is still more than I want to spend on speakers I may already have more money into than I may make on them.... if I decide to sell them - ( I would need 4 pair of binding posts, so another $240 to the total ) .... of coarse the BEST answer is to hard wire the speakers cables directly to the drivers and bypass the binding post problem altogether. But it's not everyone's cup of tea......... LOL
- But I came up with a simple solution to the problem , I am going to modify an inexpensive pair of 5 way binding posts by insulating where the wire would normally wrap around the post. - on the speaker side of the equation , I will drill small holes and run the wire out right below, or close to the side of each post.. and on the end of each wire- shape the wire into a loop - solder the loop closed so it makes a circle of the right diameter to fit snug on the post and slide it onto the insulated part of the binding post ... then on the end of my speaker cable make the same kind of loop and solder it into a circle and slide it onto the post so that when you tighten the nut on the speaker binding post till the circles of wire are tight up against each other and since the post is insulated where they are positioned on it - no power will be going thru the big chunk of metal just from one wire to the other - with nothing in between them as they usually would have! - Also the 5 way Binding posts I am using can easily be changed back to normal if for some reason the buyer doesn't want to use it that way , just snip the loop off and solder it to the inside of the post... AND bonus feature -- the small changes I am making to the binding post design will allow you to just unscrew a couple of screws and the speaker posts will slide out to be worked on , instead of having to open the speaker up to make any changes to the set up.
- My Purify drivers also have arrived! Many of the guys involved in the Group buy have already built their new speaker designs using the new Purify speaker drivers and they are completely agreeing with the several online reviews of the drivers - they are all saying that they are the Best Mid-Woofers that any of them have ever heard!!!! Also several speaker company's out there have already designed new speakers for the Purifi drivers and the designs are all now each company's Flagship speaker design!
- Unfortunately , I am still not sure how I want to use the four drivers that I bought.... I could go with a ported design but then exchange the ports for passive radiators - two per driver , (which is just increases the low frequency response of a speaker system ... louder, clearer , deeper bass.
- or go with an TL speaker design, or even a Open baffle design with maybe a Neo10 and a Neo3 Tweeter or two , not the most efficient use of the great bass woofer these woofers can put out but they also have so much less distortion than any other speaker driver near there size, so I think it might be a good trade off....
- I still haven't figured out for sure what tweeter to use with them either - most of the best tweeters are between $700 - and - $1,200 ..... a lot to spend - too much for me to try different tweeters - LOL ....
- But the with the the right tweeter and crossover you have a State Of The Art speaker!! So it is worth the money compared to buying some speaker company's speaker design.
- I also thought about using a stacked pair of AMT tweeters too in some kind of wave guide.... just not sure. - ( "Help me Spock" )
-
- So I could use some tweeter advice, what is the best tweeter you have heard??, Or what is your favorite tweeter?? - (keep in mind the Purify drivers are only 89db efficient so horn tweeters maybe out) - but who knows.
Thank you,
Kind regards, Dean
------ about the crossover toggle switch - ( or maybe a separate set of speaker Binding Posts)........ The w70 is really a simple 2 way , ( it almost doesn't qualify as a crossover ) --- The 12 inch woofers are run full range because they naturally roll off. So the teeter and midrange are it, the tweeter has One cap, the midrange has One cap and an inductor - couldn't be simpler , I am just voicing the speaker with two choices switching the Two capacitors from Audiophile Poly Film caps to PIO Capacitors , the Idea is to give the myself, but more importantly the new owner a choice of sound....... ( oh and they each have an L-Pad too : )
- So my second set of 12 inch Wharfedale woofers arrived so the next step is to build another set of sand filled back walls, so I can install the new woofers into them as an Isobaric design , which should make the first 12 inch woofer think it is in a speaker box that is about twice the size as it is in now - for much Better BASS! - but it can be exchanged with the original back if the buyer wants it to be stock. ---- you never know about people ..... ha ha
- I'm also adding a second set of binding posts so it can be Bi-wired or Bi-amped. I also found good replacement L-Pads for the two L-Pads for the tweeter and Midrange on each speaker. . . . . Then I have to decide how to refinish them, i could go with new veneer, or just sand them and re-stain them.... should be interesting I haven't done much refinishing.
- I have recently come across several conversations regarding the fact that most of the current speaker Binding posts actually take a real chunk of the speakers sound quality away! The problem is, it is usually a much larger chunk of metal then the Speaker cable , or the wire inside the speaker... and people that have bypassed the binding post and just soldered the speaker cable directly to the drivers all report a jump in detail and sound quality......
- GR Research has a great set of binding posts that are an answer to that problem -- they are 59.00 a pair - (which is pretty reasonable) - But it is still more than I want to spend on speakers I may already have more money into than I may make on them.... if I decide to sell them - ( I would need 4 pair of binding posts, so another $240 to the total ) .... of coarse the BEST answer is to hard wire the speakers cables directly to the drivers and bypass the binding post problem altogether. But it's not everyone's cup of tea......... LOL
- But I came up with a simple solution to the problem , I am going to modify an inexpensive pair of 5 way binding posts by insulating where the wire would normally wrap around the post. - on the speaker side of the equation , I will drill small holes and run the wire out right below, or close to the side of each post.. and on the end of each wire- shape the wire into a loop - solder the loop closed so it makes a circle of the right diameter to fit snug on the post and slide it onto the insulated part of the binding post ... then on the end of my speaker cable make the same kind of loop and solder it into a circle and slide it onto the post so that when you tighten the nut on the speaker binding post till the circles of wire are tight up against each other and since the post is insulated where they are positioned on it - no power will be going thru the big chunk of metal just from one wire to the other - with nothing in between them as they usually would have! - Also the 5 way Binding posts I am using can easily be changed back to normal if for some reason the buyer doesn't want to use it that way , just snip the loop off and solder it to the inside of the post... AND bonus feature -- the small changes I am making to the binding post design will allow you to just unscrew a couple of screws and the speaker posts will slide out to be worked on , instead of having to open the speaker up to make any changes to the set up.
- My Purify drivers also have arrived! Many of the guys involved in the Group buy have already built their new speaker designs using the new Purify speaker drivers and they are completely agreeing with the several online reviews of the drivers - they are all saying that they are the Best Mid-Woofers that any of them have ever heard!!!! Also several speaker company's out there have already designed new speakers for the Purifi drivers and the designs are all now each company's Flagship speaker design!
- Unfortunately , I am still not sure how I want to use the four drivers that I bought.... I could go with a ported design but then exchange the ports for passive radiators - two per driver , (which is just increases the low frequency response of a speaker system ... louder, clearer , deeper bass.
- or go with an TL speaker design, or even a Open baffle design with maybe a Neo10 and a Neo3 Tweeter or two , not the most efficient use of the great bass woofer these woofers can put out but they also have so much less distortion than any other speaker driver near there size, so I think it might be a good trade off....
- I still haven't figured out for sure what tweeter to use with them either - most of the best tweeters are between $700 - and - $1,200 ..... a lot to spend - too much for me to try different tweeters - LOL ....
- But the with the the right tweeter and crossover you have a State Of The Art speaker!! So it is worth the money compared to buying some speaker company's speaker design.
- I also thought about using a stacked pair of AMT tweeters too in some kind of wave guide.... just not sure. - ( "Help me Spock" )
-
- So I could use some tweeter advice, what is the best tweeter you have heard??, Or what is your favorite tweeter?? - (keep in mind the Purify drivers are only 89db efficient so horn tweeters maybe out) - but who knows.
Thank you,
Kind regards, Dean
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Hi Dean,
thanks for the update, you're certainly keeping yourself busy.
Tweeters, due to their high sensitivity and matching to your other drivers, I think you are wise to stay away from compression drivers. I like Living Voice loudspeakers and they have used Scan-Speak Revelator tweeters - details here - D2905/990000 – Scan-Speak A/S @ 91 dB. Their website says that you can buy through Madisound Portal
All the best
Barry
thanks for the update, you're certainly keeping yourself busy.
Tweeters, due to their high sensitivity and matching to your other drivers, I think you are wise to stay away from compression drivers. I like Living Voice loudspeakers and they have used Scan-Speak Revelator tweeters - details here - D2905/990000 – Scan-Speak A/S @ 91 dB. Their website says that you can buy through Madisound Portal
All the best
Barry
Hi Dean,
As an alternative, in the lower cost loudspeakers, there is a D2905/95000 tweeter - ScanSpeak Classic D2905/9500 1" Tweeter Textile Dome
Hope this helps
Barry
As an alternative, in the lower cost loudspeakers, there is a D2905/95000 tweeter - ScanSpeak Classic D2905/9500 1" Tweeter Textile Dome
Hope this helps
Barry
Hi Barry , just thought I would check in , it's been so long since we last talked, how are you and family doing? Hope everyone is well., Have you made any progress on your horn speakers? - Any picture updates? Did you find the right processor/ xover for your horns?? -
Kind regards, Dean
Kind regards, Dean