@profiguy Earlier in the thread you mentioned that you think the SH has problems in the lower midrange, maybe stored energy. And you said the dome is too convex. Can you elaborate? Pictures of the SE and SH appear to have very similar domes, and the Voice Coil test of the SH looked pretty good, I thought.
I have heard that one. It has nice big warmish sound, but not extremely detailed nor exact placement of instruments.
Actually i am building speakers right now with morel em1308 dome and it has more detail than atalante, and more exact placement of instruments.
It reminds me Yamaha JA-08B5 dome that i have heard in same room, but since i have not yet completed this project (it is in early prototype stage) i cannot compare them too directly yet (yamaha and morel)
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Hi and thanks for everyone for information, it has been very good thread.
i am building a 3way speaker, and right now after some testing it seems that domes might be way to go. The dome im testing right now is morel em1308.
I have few questions:
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- What contributes to the soundstage size with domes? How big/wide it is?
When i have heard yamaha ns1000 (with br dome) in same room, they had wider image than what i had right now in testing "free space" (look at the image in last post, middome top of the speaker)
Is it because of the baffle was wider with yamaha and so sound reflected differently into the room? Also revival 5 had same kind of big sound, so im thinking it might be the baffle..
(im trying to decide should i do narrow baffle or wider baffle)
i am building a 3way speaker, and right now after some testing it seems that domes might be way to go. The dome im testing right now is morel em1308.
I have few questions:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- What contributes to the soundstage size with domes? How big/wide it is?
When i have heard yamaha ns1000 (with br dome) in same room, they had wider image than what i had right now in testing "free space" (look at the image in last post, middome top of the speaker)
Is it because of the baffle was wider with yamaha and so sound reflected differently into the room? Also revival 5 had same kind of big sound, so im thinking it might be the baffle..
(im trying to decide should i do narrow baffle or wider baffle)
ASW = Apparent Source Width
Test Signal - pink noise , 1/3 octave wide (narrow-band noise)
Room reflections and Source directivity are spoiling the localisation at the listening position
Without a scientific approach YOU ARE LOST IN DIY SPACE
of subjective opinions!
have a nice hobby (but be aware to get flooded with opinions on this damned ignorant board)
Test Signal - pink noise , 1/3 octave wide (narrow-band noise)
Room reflections and Source directivity are spoiling the localisation at the listening position
Without a scientific approach YOU ARE LOST IN DIY SPACE
of subjective opinions!
have a nice hobby (but be aware to get flooded with opinions on this damned ignorant board)
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I have the EM1308 and really like them, however, my three way speakers did not come alive in terms of soundstage until I nailed the on axis phase co-incidence between the drivers for at least one octave either side of the crossover points. As I have active crossovers I can play with different low/high pass slopes and also delays, I had four crossovers programmes that were all pretty much the same on axis frequency wise but the one that provides a wider and deeper apparent sounds stage and also more separation between instruments (when it is actually engineered that way on the track) was the one with the lowest order slopes and that had the best phase coherence.
No idea if this is everyone's experience and not sure if there is any maths/physics behind it but this is my experience.
Thanks Ugg10,
i know the phase was little of with my quick/dirty phase setup as it was meant to make clear tonality of drivers and no so much other aspects..
I know from my own tests that i am phase sensitive.
Phase most likely plays a role in here, also i feel baffle width, but i have to test it.
Next week when i have time, I will make a comparative test with rounded wide edges on my test box vs narrower box as it is now..
i know the phase was little of with my quick/dirty phase setup as it was meant to make clear tonality of drivers and no so much other aspects..
I know from my own tests that i am phase sensitive.
Phase most likely plays a role in here, also i feel baffle width, but i have to test it.
Next week when i have time, I will make a comparative test with rounded wide edges on my test box vs narrower box as it is now..
Beautiful melding of cabinetry and metal work. I'm a fan.
Well, that's a very good point! Again I made me an a** by assuming based on how it looks.
Don’t use a dome midrange with a dome tweeter and you won‘t have any significant phase issues in the upper crossover region to worry about. It’s only the ’hey I wanna dance around ‘ crowd that can’t just sit down and shut up to listen that take issue with ribbons and planars……….and that argument is lost when you compare any dome to the ACT2560 anyways.
Oh….wide baffles don’t image well…..best avoided if not needed…..don’t cross the dome too low and it’s not a concern,
Why so aggressive?
Don't visit a diy forum if you prefer a strictly scientific conversation!
Not aggressive just frustrated after over 20y of bombardment of opinions 🙁
@mayhem13 There's nothing wrong with using an HF dome with a mid dome as long as you get the relative phase in the overlap region right along with making sure there isn't a sudden jump in radiating width at the xover point. If you nail this and design a minimal defracting cabinet, the speaker will disappear into the room and throw a deep / wide stereo image.
Planar tweeters are easier to integrate with a mid dome due to their narrow vertical pattern, closer to the midrange pattern at xover compared to a typical wider pattern of an HF dome at the same xover. The dome tweeter isnt as forgiving because of the wider overlap region, but a WG tweeter can address this by narrowing its directivity down low. Again, if both drivers share similar directivity at xover and relative phase, they will blend seamlessly.
Planar tweeters are easier to integrate with a mid dome due to their narrow vertical pattern, closer to the midrange pattern at xover compared to a typical wider pattern of an HF dome at the same xover. The dome tweeter isnt as forgiving because of the wider overlap region, but a WG tweeter can address this by narrowing its directivity down low. Again, if both drivers share similar directivity at xover and relative phase, they will blend seamlessly.
The older Sprague oil filled motor run caps sound very good in HP circuits, especially on planar and AMT tweeters. Sometimes they will tame the sharp resonances on smaller compression drivers. The JBL 2407s sound very smooth with oil filled motor run caps, but cored inductors don't work well with them used in parallel on 2nd order HP filters.
Yeah...like i said.....Ribbons or Planars excel here over domes when crossing high to a mid......wider and more even off axis horizontal too.......just sit the heck down and if you're this critical of what you listen to, vertical off axis response of more than 10% is a silly conversation IMO.
Not right or wrong, just easier and better😉
My bad. I confused the SH with another model we didn't discuss made by Hivi, but I cant find the info on it.
The 1558SE dome was a good inexpensive 3" dome that could hang with the Dynaudio D76, but it can't be crossed as low.
The new SH version has ferrofluid and lower sensitivity. THD is lower on this one and it can handle a 500 hz LP 2nd order. I dont recall it being able to play as high up as in the VC review. I'm not fond of the FF, not knowing the grade or viscosity. If it has the same suspension stabilizer as the SE, it should be able to do without FF.
I wouldn't call it inexpensive at $180 a unit 🙂
https://www.parts-express.com/Tang-Band-75-1558SH-3-Fabric-Dome-Midrange-264-856?quantity=1
Ferrofluid will increase power handling but does it have lower distortion than the original SE? I can only compare Audio Express (SH) to Hi-Fi Compass (SE) so not really fair.
https://www.parts-express.com/Tang-Band-75-1558SH-3-Fabric-Dome-Midrange-264-856?quantity=1
Ferrofluid will increase power handling but does it have lower distortion than the original SE? I can only compare Audio Express (SH) to Hi-Fi Compass (SE) so not really fair.