I understand where you're coming from and in theory agree with this info if the driver operates 100 % pistonic, but I see a few exceptions. This is based on when the driver FR starts becoming irregular off axis from the first breakup mode at a frequency just above the equivalent WL of cone circumference. It happens at roughly 900 hz on most 8" drivers with accordion style surrounds. On a 12" thats roughly 600 hz and roughly 750 on a 10". Some drivers suffer from this more than others and it can result in a sharp spike in HD as well. Drivers with low mms and / or very stiff, minimally dampened cones are more susceptible to breakup issues of this type.
@DualTriode I agree that horns can get a bad rap when they distort in the characteristic way the do,, but they also can sound very effortless and dynamic when done right. Unfortunately they're much harder to get right than wrong. Direct radiating cone drivers are much more forgiving, but harder to make behave when you need controlled directivity.
Why not the 2119H? 🙂
The 2118H has often been notched, due to the 1k -> resonances/breakup.
The 2119H is better behaved in this region.
And has higher power handling.
of course the 2118 is easy to find used for decent prices.
The 2119 usually going for 300$ ish and rare in the used market.
Attachments
Last edited:
Hello,
I do not recall that claim being made in this thread. If long slow near X-Max cone excursions are included all bets are off. Remember that the definition of X-Max is the cone excursion where distortion increases to 10%.
Large bass cone excursions increases IMD well up into the mid-range frequencies.
Thanks DT
The 2119 is definitely on the list to consider. It has the motor and cone to do the job well. Thats what matters most to me.
@DualTriode I agree for the most part. While absolute xmax isn't the deciding factor, operating close to it is asking for elevated distortion where it counts in the midbass region. Using 50% of excursion capability is appropriate to retain linearity throughout the required dynamic range. Thats why I'm looking for more than just "good enough".
Hello,
Okay if you prefer the JBL2119. I doubt that you can hear the difference after placing into a real enclosure and tuning the crossover. The bump at 3kHz is most likely due to the test enclosure. On the whole not too different than the 2118. To me, sounds the same as the 2118.
I like the 2123, plus I like being able to match the crossover frequency and Directivity with the Controlled Dispersion tweeter waveguide.
Thanks DT
Hello,
This is State Of The Art. Get out your credit card.
Much more affordable and meets your efficiency requirement is my large mid-range pick, JBL2123H. Note the near SOTA distortion performance.
Thanks DT
Quite literally the post before:
Anyway, the context is quite unclear to me, because somewhere on the first page it was all about a lot of SPL's and now we are even talking about Purifi woofers? Doesn't make much sense anymore.
Oh I see the confusion.
The topic was mid-bass drivers. There were no claims about woofers.
You brought up woofers. If things went south, there it is.
Is a mid-bass a woofer? I say no. Just a little confusion is all. No worries
Last edited:
How different is the 2123h from the 108h? Is it even close? The 2119h has an aquaplas cone, which is preferred.
What don't you like about the Beyma I posted? Seems to cover your needs: good sensitivity, xmax, shorting ring, doesn't get wobbly between 1-2khz like so many pro 8"ers.
The one thing that makes me bit a reluctant about it is that Beyma measurements show a level of smoothing on the X axis that is not obvious on first inspection.
So on first inspection this driver looks like it has good inductance control, given the low and flat impedance curve.
But if look closer there's undulations in the impedance curve, which correspond with slight fluctuations in amplitude response ant the same frequency. And each Y division is 4dB.
So It may appear smoother than the equivalent 8” B&C driver, but to me B&C show a higher resolution / less smoothed graph.
That driver is a chunky boy. 😎
Availability might be an issue though. (and it has typical surround issues with higher even-order distortion as a result, if that matters.)
Availability might be an issue though. (and it has typical surround issues with higher even-order distortion as a result, if that matters.)
I like it alot and appreciate your educated input. It just may not have quite enough voltage sensitivity unless available in 4 ohms. Its also not easy to find here in the Uas based on my search at typical vendors.
In all honesty, as much as I like Beyma drivers, their data has been sort of all over the map when I cross check it. Beyma doesn't always measure well in the real world but performs well musically speaking, as they have nice sounding cone formulations in their mids. Their CDs are also very good as is their big AMT hf drivers, in some cases besting Mundorf stuff. They do run very tight VC gaps and sometimes have issues with VC rubbing at higher cone excursions - I've warranteed more Beyma drivers for VC rubbing than any other brand, but this issue aside, had better results with their cone mids compared to most pro sound drivers.
As for B&C, you can't beat them for the price. They make excellent LF drivers, but I'm not always that crazy about their CDs. I do like the DCX50 and DCM50 alot for their natural sound. One of the best drivers for Yuichi A290 horns.
If it were easier to find 8NDL51 or 8PS21 in 4 ohms, it would solve my problem for very low cost.
Last edited: