There are plans for a more general crossover.
The LXmini crossover can be stuffed for a variety of loudspeakers.
You have the board and existing schematic, and I have posted a
MicroCap sim file:
404 Not Found for you to play with.
You can download the Windows demo version of MicroCap from:
Spectrum Software - Micro-Cap 12. Analog simulation, mixed mode simulation, and digital simulation software. SPICE and PSpice(R) compatible circuit simulator.
and alter the values to see the resulting curves.
After installing MicroCap demo, you click on the file and it launches you
into the screen showing the schematic. On the top bar, click on
Analysis, then AC, then Run, and see the result. You can edit the values
right on the screen, and after a little practice you can be doing this on
your own.
Note that the active elements in this sim are VCVS, voltage controlled
voltage sources whose value (gain) is set up as a buffer.
The link doesn't work no more...
Could you update it? Thanks
You can also use the LTSpice software and the attached model:
LTspice Simulator | Analog Devices
LTspice Simulator | Analog Devices
The link doesn't work no more...
Could you update it? Thanks
Link works fine...
Hello folks, happy new year everyone
I have been enjoying the Lx-mini crossover for the last 8 months in a 2-way bi-amped relatively small OB which consists of 12" full range with 15" woofer crossed 300Hz 2nd order. Class D for bottom, Aleph J for full range or 2W Class A SET amp with good results. I Recently purchased a ESS Heil AMT tweeter to thinker with high frequencies above 10K Hz for that missing sparkle "magic" using a single capacitor for a "quasi" 3-way. I use a 4 ohms attenuator to maintain the impedance & level matching, I just find the 12" Full Range is beaming quite a bit and I not using the Heil tweeter to its full potential for mids/highs (some say one of the best tweeters ever made..)
My question is" if I ever wanted to go to full 3-way in an analog fashion (tri-amplified), what are possible upgrade paths that make sense? Could I just build another Lx-mini or 6-24 crossover for the mids/high in series ? I don't think there is such thing as 3/4-way DIY Lxmini version. Or should I simply add a passive cross-over ?
Yes, I have used mini dsp to play with EQ and XO. Possibly looking to cross the Heil around 2K. Trying to avoid the DA conversion thing all together if possible
Thank you
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dbgoLrcf904pWHAtMOlBrkUVtBXieEB5/view?usp=sharing
Hi sebtdi,
Looking at you setup and the units used (looks familiar to me ;-) ) - there are also some other opportunities
You could instead change it to a 2½ way, using the LX-mini xover only for the split between the FR and the Heil - and cross much lower, as you mention.
I have an OB setup with similar units, 15" FR and and the AE 15 Dipole - very similar concept to your unit which is also a dedicated OB underhung woofer.
The whizzer and the Heils have quite different characteristics, and also the beaming is a challenge - you really want to make the x-over cut where the units are the closest to match up in dispersion.
That could be using the LXMini xover for that and just add a simple I-core coil in series with the woofer, don't go for too low a resistance coil - as the series resistance will increase the Q and and help further in the low end response.
If the gain matches between the WF and FR they could share the same amplifier. Which if I remember right they don't - the 12" being much more sensitive
Especially if you match the LF cut-off freq for the WF to fill-in where the 12" FR naturally drops off anyway it might not even need the extra low-pass cut-off or just a simple RC filter on the D-amp input might do the job.
But - yes another 6-24 xover would also do the job - daisychaining one channel for a bandpass.
There is also the LX-Studio - balanced x-over, I build one up this summer, but I am yet to power it up been to busy with LX521.4, miniDSP's and now FusionAmp's with their DSP filters.
The Studio filter would also be modifiable to work in this context - but it is a much bigger project than a handfull of LX-mini/6-24 xovers ...hahahha.... when you are done matching and mounting all the JFET's and capacitors you will think about "The Beast with a 1000 Jfet's"
With the ESS AMT you might consider getting rid of, or dampen the whizzer to not smear the upper frequencies. I also measured quite some lobing on the Lii F15 top-end.
Interesting project, I expect that it's throwing a huge scene and is having great dynamic reponse
Looking at you setup and the units used (looks familiar to me ;-) ) - there are also some other opportunities
You could instead change it to a 2½ way, using the LX-mini xover only for the split between the FR and the Heil - and cross much lower, as you mention.
I have an OB setup with similar units, 15" FR and and the AE 15 Dipole - very similar concept to your unit which is also a dedicated OB underhung woofer.
The whizzer and the Heils have quite different characteristics, and also the beaming is a challenge - you really want to make the x-over cut where the units are the closest to match up in dispersion.
That could be using the LXMini xover for that and just add a simple I-core coil in series with the woofer, don't go for too low a resistance coil - as the series resistance will increase the Q and and help further in the low end response.
If the gain matches between the WF and FR they could share the same amplifier. Which if I remember right they don't - the 12" being much more sensitive
Especially if you match the LF cut-off freq for the WF to fill-in where the 12" FR naturally drops off anyway it might not even need the extra low-pass cut-off or just a simple RC filter on the D-amp input might do the job.
But - yes another 6-24 xover would also do the job - daisychaining one channel for a bandpass.
There is also the LX-Studio - balanced x-over, I build one up this summer, but I am yet to power it up
been to busy with LX521.4, miniDSP's and now FusionAmp's with their DSP filters.The Studio filter would also be modifiable to work in this context - but it is a much bigger project than a handfull of LX-mini/6-24 xovers ...hahahha.... when you are done matching and mounting all the JFET's and capacitors you will think about "The Beast with a 1000 Jfet's"
With the ESS AMT you might consider getting rid of, or dampen the whizzer to not smear the upper frequencies. I also measured quite some lobing on the Lii F15 top-end.
Interesting project, I expect that it's throwing a huge scene and is having great dynamic reponse
I purchased pairs of pretty much every Lii driver, and it's nice to see people
starting to play with them. So far it looks like they are quite nice with a little EQ.
My experience is that whizzers can do double duty - they are supposed to extend
the top end by providing another small light surface attach to the voice coil, but
I have found (by removing some) that they also tame what would otherwise be
a large peak in the upper frequency response of the large cone.
starting to play with them. So far it looks like they are quite nice with a little EQ.
My experience is that whizzers can do double duty - they are supposed to extend
the top end by providing another small light surface attach to the voice coil, but
I have found (by removing some) that they also tame what would otherwise be
a large peak in the upper frequency response of the large cone.
That's interesting Nelson.I purchased pairs of pretty much every Lii driver, and it's nice to see people
starting to play with them. So far it looks like they are quite nice with a little EQ.
My experience is that whizzers can do double duty - they are supposed to extend
the top end by providing another small light surface attach to the voice coil, but
I have found (by removing some) that they also tame what would otherwise be
a large peak in the upper frequency response of the large cone.
How do you safely remove the whizzer without damaging the paper cone?
Also just curious what EQ adjustments did you do with the Lii's and which model ? I find the upper frequencies can at times be harsh on the F-12 with certain female vocals
Thank you for the feedback
Another rather simple solution I was thinking of tonight is to split my existing balanced XLR ACN version into two single boards with RCA outputs to make it a 3-way crossover; the output of Board #1 high-pass "daisychaining" into board #2 for mid-tweeter output. I would have to model & replace the components values again after landing down on a XO frequency. I would also need to replace the rear panels from XLRs to RCA's and hopefully much can be salvaged.
The only drawback I see it the lack of adjustability of the ACN vs 6-24 board; I would be stuck with 12dB for everything unless I change the 2nd board to a 6-24 then the chassis is too small..
What do you guys think?
Dial it in using the miniDSP first, before making changes to your nice balanced setup that might not work out in the end -
e.g. if 4th order turns out being the better solution.
scalpels has worked well for me, and sometimes pre-heating the blade to seperate where the glue is. (Patience/self-control and steady hand requiered) I have not done this on whizzers only center domes. If possible this might also support re-attachment should you regret ;-)In one case it was provided that way, in others I used an Exacto (tm) knife.
The reason to not try and lift it off at the glue seam like this on Lii's is that most of their mebranes are known to be very (!) thin.
Good point about the whizzers dual purpose - breaking up waves that would occur across the membrane.
Added a picture from a setup that I totally forgot I tried out, Lii F15 on top, Great Heil center and Faital 15PR400 below.
But the plan for the F15's was something else - as can be seen in the other picture joined up with the AE Dipole 15", w.16ohm dual coils. - Fiddling with 4x10HD filter setup...
But I am yet to finalize the filter transform to 6-24 / LX-mini as planned..... eventually it will happen....surely
Attachments
interestingDial it in using the miniDSP first, before making changes to your nice balanced setup that might not work out in the end -
e.g. if 4th order turns out being the better solution.
scalpels has worked well for me, and sometimes pre-heating the blade to seperate where the glue is. (Patience/self-control and steady hand requiered) I have not done this on whizzers only center domes. If possible this might also support re-attachment should you regret ;-)
The reason to not try and lift it off at the glue seam like this on Lii's is that most of their mebranes are known to be very (!) thin.
Good point about the whizzers dual purpose - breaking up waves that would occur across the membrane.
Added a picture from a setup that I totally forgot I tried out, Lii F15 on top, Great Heil center and Faital 15PR400 below.
But the plan for the F15's was something else - as can be seen in the other picture joined up with the AE Dipole 15", w.16ohm dual coils. - Fiddling with 4x10HD filter setup...
But I am yet to finalize the filter transform to 6-24 / LX-mini as planned..... eventually it will happen....surely
How did you cross the Heil in first set-up?