Boenicke W5 clone

[ginetto61]

Ciao Ginetto,
I’m attempting to build a W5SE clone and have bought all the drivers but stuck with the crossover, not knowing what’s in there and the crossover frequency. Do you have further insight to this?

Hi ! you can find a schematic in the 1st page of this thread. I am attaching it

As to the side woofer topic, which is very interesting, my understanding is that low frequency is not directional so if the woofer is managing the lower side of the spectrum then it is ok to place them on the side (just like a subwoofer box tuck at the corner).
Having said that I read that anything below 100hz is not directional,

Yes exactly. Actually i think also above the 100Hz limit ... i have seen this polar plot here below. It looks like freqs up to 250Hz are practically not directional
https://www.ap.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/figure-1.png

but in the case of Boenicke W5, the side woofer seems to be handling frequency from about 45hz to few thousand hz (the side woofer has no crossover). While this seems strange to me, the speaker does sing.
I’m sure there are many things in life that science on paper cannot explain completely.

The woofer is run without filter. I think they have tuned the xover on the wideband driver in the room to complete the audio band. It is a very interesting approach to me that implies some room measurements.
And maybe also some final EQ to flatten everything out. Lately i have become intrigued with digital EQ.
I see more and more speakers with side firing woofers. An old masterpiece was the Acoustic Research model 9

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

 

[ginetto61]

It would be nice to see some measurements, and xover scheme.. I saw measurements for original speaker which are disgusting..

Hi sorry but i think you are exaggerating ... disgusting is too big of a word 😱 i see +/-5dB from 40 to 20kHz ... not bad at all
Maybe the average 80dB sensitivity is not exciting ...

you can always EQ and flatten the response out within +/-3dB easily 😉
The very nice thing is the narrow front ... i like that a lot indeed. 🙂

 

[kptseng]

Hi ! you can find a schematic in the 1st page of this thread. I am attaching it

Hi,
Yes I saw the crossover schematic but not sure if that was the actual one that Boenicke is using for the W5SE.
I’ve tried to seek clarity on this but so far have not been successful.
Have seen some pictures on Hifi magazine showing only part of the crossover, and I can only tell there was one Obliggato cap, a couple of Mundorf MKP, and an air-core 0.12mH inductor.
At the same time, I read in earlier posts that the crossover have little (if any) effect on the sound.
I will still try to use the crossover shown on the schematic with cheaper components first. It would cost me a whole lot to use what Boenicke uses (which is top-class).

 

[ginetto61]

Hi, Yes I saw the crossover schematic but not sure if that was the actual one that Boenicke is using for the W5SE.

Hi ! me too. I have just seen it.

I’ve tried to seek clarity on this but so far have not been successful.
Have seen some pictures on Hifi magazine showing only part of the crossover, and I can only tell there was one Obliggato cap, a couple of Mundorf MKP, and an air-core 0.12mH inductor.
At the same time, I read in earlier posts that the crossover have little (if any) effect on the sound.
I will still try to use the crossover shown on the schematic with cheaper components first. It would cost me a whole lot to use what Boenicke uses (which is top-class).

the intriguing aspect for me is the concept more than the actual drivers used in it. I would select a very low fs woofer like some vintage for instance. I think to AR woofers that goes quite low. I will mount it in a W5SE like cabinet and measure the freq response in the listening room.
Then i would try a wideband or even a two way solution on the front baffle to complete the freq response. I think some final electronic EQ would help a lot. For instance someone has mentioned the irregularity of the W5SE response. A good EQ will flatten that out very easily. However from 40 to 20kHz within +/-5dB is not that bad and actually listening reports are quite positive. A very original concept that can be scaled up with big drivers i think. I like when the woofers are directly connected to the amp unfiltered.
Good luck

 

[Zvu]

Hi sorry but i think you are exaggerating ... disgusting is too big of a word 😱 i see +/-5dB from 40 to 20kHz ... not bad at all....

If +/-5dB is "not bad at all", then what is ?

There is 10dB difference from 100Hz to 500Hz and back up at 4kHz (and i'll be nice and will not analyse that mayhem over 10kHz)

When you get to +/-2dB you can call that acceptable and everything from +/-1.5dB and lower is considdered good.

And i'm not saying that this isn't a fun speaker to listen, but so is JBL pill - both can be fun in certain cicumstances but are not anywhere near hifi.

 

[ginetto61]

If +/-5dB is "not bad at all", then what is ?
There is 10dB difference from 100Hz to 500Hz and back up at 4kHz (and i'll be nice and will not analyse that mayhem over 10kHz)
When you get to +/-2dB you can call that acceptable and everything from +/-1.5dB and lower is considdered good.

Hi ! 😀 yes not flat for sure. But there was another case mentioned in the web of a speaker with this kind of irregularity that was well received anyway and someone was noticing its low distortion. Distortion is an aspect less discussed than freq response. Could it be that we are more tolerant to response irregularity than distortion ?
But what i find intriguing is the concept that allows for a very narrow front baffle. It looks elegant.

And i'm not saying that this isn't a fun speaker to listen, but so is JBL pill - both can be fun in certain cicumstances but are not anywhere near hifi

even after proper EQ ? it is a very compact speaker that looks just perfect for nearfield listenings

 

[Henkjan]

“If it measures good, but sounds bad, you're measuring the wrong thing." ― Dr. Richard C. Heyser

 

[ginetto61]

“If it measures good, but sounds bad, you're measuring the wrong thing." ― Dr. Richard C. Heyser

i like this sentence immensely ... thank you very much indeed
however i have a new infatuation ... digital EQ ... that will smooth everything out

 

[kptseng]

Just collected the speaker enclosures today from the carpentry workshop, I thought I am all set to start putting things together but...................

Just noticed the aluminium bracket of BOTH the FE85 I bought are bent, menaing they will not stay flat. I am still wondering how can I "straighten" them without damaging the drivers. I should have inspected them when they arrived a few weeks back.

Then looking at the tiny Tang Band 13-1761S tweeters for the rear, they have now lag for the cable but just two tiny dots, anyone can advise how best I should connect the cable securely?

Many thanks

 

[planet10]

Pincushion frames will bend like that if stressed enuff. Use a falt table/bench and put the bent corner on the surface (cone facing up) and slowly carefully press it back to right. Hopefully not damaged enuff to be an issue.


dave

 

[kptseng]

Thans Dave,
Managed to somehow bring them back in the right shape (well almost) with the help of 2 pieces of wood and some force with my bare hands on the kitchen top.
The cones and cushions are still intact, measured the drivers and they both measures approx 7.3ohm each so I supposed they are fine.

Still need to figure out how am I going to secure cables to the tweeters.

 

[jimk04]

I guess you solder wires to those pads on the tweeters

 

[kptseng]

I guess I have to, can’t think of another way.
Just concern if that is secure enough, especially the soldering has to be quick so not to burn the coil.......

 

[raelman]

It’s not a difficult solder. Just be aware of using a 15w soldering pen.

 

[bernhardn]

Is there someone who want to share the drawings of the kabinet?

 

[Oystein]

I am long time DIY visitor but never seen this topic before.

I am a W5 user from the early days so know how a real W5 sounds and looks like but am impressed by the DIY results as shown here.

I had a discussion with my wife during christmas 2013 and she would prefer to have smaller speakers in the living room (WAF).
Just before I had read the review on 6moons so I presented the W5’s 😀
At that time I had the Master Three speakers from Dynamic Solutions which is a local brand.
Before these I had Wharfedale E-90 ... so I was really downsizing 😱

At that time Boenicke offered them direct from Zwitserland for a reasonable price. Fast forward to 2020 and now he has a dealer network and prices has gone up 50% since.

As I live in The Netherlands I managed to drive to Basel to pick up a pair and meet Sven in person and listened in his demonstration room to the W5 via my own pre+power amps which I brought with me.

Maybe a DIY upgrade to SE could be interesting

Current situation:

 

[kptseng]

Hello Everyone,

I've finally assembled my pair of W5SE clone, and have listened to them over last few days.
They sounded fine to my ears mostly except that the bass around 60-100Hz is quite prominent, this could be due to the room acoustics and my refrigerator has been producing an annoying hum around 65Hz since day one I bought it. I'll have a listen to the speakers again over the weekend with my refrigerator turned off.

One thing I have not and cannot do is a frequency response test. As an amature I am only equipped with a few simple hand tools and soldering iron.

Can anyone suggest a method which I can do a simple frequency response test (don't have to be the most accurate one) with say a smart phone / computer app?

I see some videos on YouTube and the test involve placing the mic very very closed to the driver. However I don't know how this can be applied to these W5 clones as they have the front firing mid drivers, side firing woofers and rear firing tweeters. Hence I thought placing the mic (using my phone) at my usual listening position would be most practical?

Anyways, these clones are using Fountek FE85, TB W5-1138SMF, and TB 13-1761S.
The crossover is the same as what Etonis posted on post #6 on this thread with Obbligato Gold Premium / Panasonic EZP-E caps (each bypassed with 0.01uF CDE 940C caps), Mills resistors and Mundorf inductors. Internal wiring are a mixed of Duelund 16awg stranded and some mil-spec 24awg solid core wires.

 

[EUVL]

Maybe something like this ?
Best free/cheap apps for diy audio 2018
Speaker Meter on the App Store
TestHiFi on the App Store


Patrick

 

[RomanMarts]

Hello! I made W5 clone for myself to listen at home more than one year ago. I compared the sound of mine and originals one. It's sounds the same.

3-way ported loudspeaker_8.jpg | 3-way ported

3-way ported loudspeaker_5.jpg | 3-way ported
good luck with your projects )

 

[bernhardn]

They look amazing!