PLC worth restoring?
That table was part of Pioneer's "series 20". I've only seen one in the flesh. I am sure it is quite good. What is wrong with the arm? The table itself (if in good operating condition) may only need a little lipstick (cosmetic work) only. If the turntable functions well, I wouldn't mess with it too much.
The table itself is quite rare.
That table was part of Pioneer's "series 20". I've only seen one in the flesh. I am sure it is quite good. What is wrong with the arm? The table itself (if in good operating condition) may only need a little lipstick (cosmetic work) only. If the turntable functions well, I wouldn't mess with it too much.
The table itself is quite rare.
Mission tonearm....
The arm may need a little work? What's wrong with it? It could be quite easy or quite difficult to repair.
The table itself is quite rare. I wouldn't mind a killer higher-end DD to keep and have as a nice "back-up".
The arm may need a little work? What's wrong with it? It could be quite easy or quite difficult to repair.
The table itself is quite rare. I wouldn't mind a killer higher-end DD to keep and have as a nice "back-up".
Hi Nanook,
The table seems to be fine. The arm is missing the "string" on the small counterweight thingy. No damping fluid,the cartridge clips soldering looks awful and the arm plug does not stay in the arm board socket. I connected the table to a receiver and tried to play something, no sound. 😕
I will post pictures as soon as i can figure how to.
The table seems to be fine. The arm is missing the "string" on the small counterweight thingy. No damping fluid,the cartridge clips soldering looks awful and the arm plug does not stay in the arm board socket. I connected the table to a receiver and tried to play something, no sound. 😕
I will post pictures as soon as i can figure how to.
Dampening fluid can be bought at most RC car shops (as in radio control), available in various weights. About $10 for enough to do you a lifetime. A string is easy enough. Do you have the weight? If not, just have to find out what the mass of the AS weight is. If you have a good soldering iron and vacuum "solder sucker upper' (a very technical term), or some de-soldering wick, this can be accomplished by anyone with two left hands. An arm rewire might be as easy as anything, single runs of good wire from the cartridge clips to the phonon input on you preamp or integrated. (I hope you have that else that could be the reason for no sound😉 ). Cheapest clips are from Radioshack, sold as mini sub-D connector kit. Under $2 and quite good, else order some "proper" ones. Tonearm wire is available all over, but I've used silver plated Kynar wire wrap wire to good effect. Usually under $5 for a spool of the stuff. As long as the basic arm, headshell, base and bearings are intact everything else can be repaired or made.
My old revolver was turntable of the year in 1985 in Britain...and that deck would be simple to experiment with...replace platter and or bearing assembly and motor/supply circuit might be worth a try on an already good deck...If any one as worked with the revolver I would be interested.
It's pretty frustrating for all looking for a turntable.
I've been looking at some of the auction sites and things. I am floored by what respectable turntables can cost. Stuff that was way under $200 is now way over $400! I'm not talking about all those rare and exellent "big dogs" from the past. I am seeing Thorens TD16X approaching the $400 mark. This is ludicrous! I guess now that Thorens has re-introduced an improved 16X series table at $800-$900 perhaps the classic TD16Xs are worth more, but really? At least with the new ones there is a RB250 installed.
DIY type turntables continue to be a viable alternative. And I've had a DIY type kit on the back burner for some time. Perhaps now might be a good time to advance it and see what happens. This is really starting to bother me. How can one afford to get into vinyl now without spending an arm and a leg?
I've been looking at some of the auction sites and things. I am floored by what respectable turntables can cost. Stuff that was way under $200 is now way over $400! I'm not talking about all those rare and exellent "big dogs" from the past. I am seeing Thorens TD16X approaching the $400 mark. This is ludicrous! I guess now that Thorens has re-introduced an improved 16X series table at $800-$900 perhaps the classic TD16Xs are worth more, but really? At least with the new ones there is a RB250 installed.
DIY type turntables continue to be a viable alternative. And I've had a DIY type kit on the back burner for some time. Perhaps now might be a good time to advance it and see what happens. This is really starting to bother me. How can one afford to get into vinyl now without spending an arm and a leg?
Of Revolvers, CEC and Sugden tables
Stuartarm: I slod the Revolver tables in the late 80's /early 90's. They came with a Linn Basik arm, and an inexpensive Audio Technica or Linn (K-9?). I could easily live with the split plinth design. It looked good, provided more than decent sound, and was pretty inexpensive in canuckland (Canada). That was on my short list to suggest to RJ as well. Not sure how available in Australia, and not an "old classic" but a very competent and very easy to upgrade into a Rega killer if done correctly. I think the Basik arm is competitive with a RB250, as long as similar upgrades can be accomplished. Gust be very sure about the correct mounting distance, in Canada we had to drill the plinth for the arm. I was the guy who usually did that, and was absolutely anal about accuracy. Not sure if those responsible for the original setup would have been, but I was. These tables were available in some very "exciting" finishes that were executed well.
RJ I see there is a Sugden BD1 turntable at a pretty good price on Ebay Australia. Add a Rega RB250/251 and rewire and modify it and it would be killer. What CEC turntable do you have?
Stuartarm: I slod the Revolver tables in the late 80's /early 90's. They came with a Linn Basik arm, and an inexpensive Audio Technica or Linn (K-9?). I could easily live with the split plinth design. It looked good, provided more than decent sound, and was pretty inexpensive in canuckland (Canada). That was on my short list to suggest to RJ as well. Not sure how available in Australia, and not an "old classic" but a very competent and very easy to upgrade into a Rega killer if done correctly. I think the Basik arm is competitive with a RB250, as long as similar upgrades can be accomplished. Gust be very sure about the correct mounting distance, in Canada we had to drill the plinth for the arm. I was the guy who usually did that, and was absolutely anal about accuracy. Not sure if those responsible for the original setup would have been, but I was. These tables were available in some very "exciting" finishes that were executed well.
RJ I see there is a Sugden BD1 turntable at a pretty good price on Ebay Australia. Add a Rega RB250/251 and rewire and modify it and it would be killer. What CEC turntable do you have?
Now I've seen the picture of the Sugden BD1 on the Oz bay, I can see it for what it is (I think). I recognise the start lever which had a rubber bung to give the platter a kick. It's the Connoisseur BD1 which I built as a kit in the early 70's I think. I had that deck with their own arm for years, built on my own plinth. The fact that I was shocked at how good later upgrade tables were would seem to put the BD1 fairly low in the performance heirarchy although it was miles better than average changers like BSR and Garrard but was terrible for acoustic feedback with deep bass response speakers.
It was excellent value for the money at the time, but totally outclassed by later decks I had like the Dual 504, Michell Focus 1, Rega Planar 3 and Linn Sondek.
It was excellent value for the money at the time, but totally outclassed by later decks I had like the Dual 504, Michell Focus 1, Rega Planar 3 and Linn Sondek.
outclassed...
... by a Sondek? Really?
Mind you the only comparisons I have done have been the BD1 on a heavy "spilt" plinth/DIY tonearm (14"long)/ Grado sig8 MCZ vs my Oracle Alex MkII/SME 309 (most recent version with magnesium armtube)/Grado sig8 MCZ and my friend's modified RB250 (rewired with silver /teflon wire, JA Michelle Tecno-weight, VTA adjuster)/Ortofon MC3 Turbo equipped Roksan Xerxes MkI. Oh the mods to the Sudgen consisted of replacement of the drive belt/O ring with nylon thread, and a "lossy" mount for the motor (rather than use the horrible original style) .
I've heard lots of tables over the years (and still own quite a few, about a dozen or so working examples) and I can say that the BD1 in its present configuration is no slouch. Easily kills any Rega P3/RB300 I've heard as well as a RB600 equipped P25 (which I think is a pretty nice setup).
I think that the factory arm (which by the way is really quite nice) was way too short. A friend who sold audio in the late 60's up until the 90's (and who was a Linn dealer) had built a custom plinth for a BD1 and had mounted an SME 3009 to it suggested that it easily gave the original style LP12 a run for its money. In fact his customer still has this table and continues to use it daily, having never felt the need to upgrade it. I can also state that using a 14" tonearm does give some very good sonic advantages. Much time has been spent optimizing the arm, it's length , materials, and mounting location/geometry. But nothing somebody in this hobby should be unable to do. The arm itself is an "Altmann" style arm made with better materials and a much better bearing/pivot.
... by a Sondek? Really?
Mind you the only comparisons I have done have been the BD1 on a heavy "spilt" plinth/DIY tonearm (14"long)/ Grado sig8 MCZ vs my Oracle Alex MkII/SME 309 (most recent version with magnesium armtube)/Grado sig8 MCZ and my friend's modified RB250 (rewired with silver /teflon wire, JA Michelle Tecno-weight, VTA adjuster)/Ortofon MC3 Turbo equipped Roksan Xerxes MkI. Oh the mods to the Sudgen consisted of replacement of the drive belt/O ring with nylon thread, and a "lossy" mount for the motor (rather than use the horrible original style) .
I've heard lots of tables over the years (and still own quite a few, about a dozen or so working examples) and I can say that the BD1 in its present configuration is no slouch. Easily kills any Rega P3/RB300 I've heard as well as a RB600 equipped P25 (which I think is a pretty nice setup).
I think that the factory arm (which by the way is really quite nice) was way too short. A friend who sold audio in the late 60's up until the 90's (and who was a Linn dealer) had built a custom plinth for a BD1 and had mounted an SME 3009 to it suggested that it easily gave the original style LP12 a run for its money. In fact his customer still has this table and continues to use it daily, having never felt the need to upgrade it. I can also state that using a 14" tonearm does give some very good sonic advantages. Much time has been spent optimizing the arm, it's length , materials, and mounting location/geometry. But nothing somebody in this hobby should be unable to do. The arm itself is an "Altmann" style arm made with better materials and a much better bearing/pivot.
I don't disbelieve you, the Connoisseur arm was a bit of a dog with a floppy plug in headshell if I remember correctly.
floppy headshell...
sbrads: ...with a little work the arm can be made to be quite good. I used some pieces from a Dual aluminium arm to extend the arm to 12" effective length. The make a headshell, and in business. Or not use the extension and use it and a spare Gimbal bearing from another of the same tonearm and build a DIY version of a Thales arm , or Frank Schroeder's similar design.
sbrads: ...with a little work the arm can be made to be quite good. I used some pieces from a Dual aluminium arm to extend the arm to 12" effective length. The make a headshell, and in business. Or not use the extension and use it and a spare Gimbal bearing from another of the same tonearm and build a DIY version of a Thales arm , or Frank Schroeder's similar design.
My BD-1 had a Black Widow arm. I shoulda kept it just to have a low mass reference, but that was then. It's gone, as is my diesel Scout. Damn.
Hello
From Dual the 1009 or 1019 which at first I did like because both has heavy platter (7LB) I just found out the platter size is only 10" not the normal 12"
I don't know how much that effect the all over quality but I think it is a reason later even Dual started using 12"platter.I want to find a good working Dual because those has smaller idler than Elac or Lenco.
All do the 20xx series does not have such a heavy platter it still can be good for DIY.
Unfortunately some of these TT way over priced.
I have to wait until something comes up with bad carousel condition etc.
I found my Elac at Value Village!
I must be patient eve do I never ever sow a idler derived Dual the last 20 years..
Also to buy on Ebay (the shipping cost is horrible expensive)
If someone has something and not planing to use for DIY purpose (in Toronto of course) I may interested on it.
Also I have to ask my friends to.
Greetings Gabor
From Dual the 1009 or 1019 which at first I did like because both has heavy platter (7LB) I just found out the platter size is only 10" not the normal 12"
I don't know how much that effect the all over quality but I think it is a reason later even Dual started using 12"platter.I want to find a good working Dual because those has smaller idler than Elac or Lenco.
All do the 20xx series does not have such a heavy platter it still can be good for DIY.
Unfortunately some of these TT way over priced.
I have to wait until something comes up with bad carousel condition etc.
I found my Elac at Value Village!
I must be patient eve do I never ever sow a idler derived Dual the last 20 years..
Also to buy on Ebay (the shipping cost is horrible expensive)
If someone has something and not planing to use for DIY purpose (in Toronto of course) I may interested on it.
Also I have to ask my friends to.
Greetings Gabor
gaborbela, Duals come up pretty often.
If I can find an occasional one in "redneck" Alberta, you should be able to find all sorts in Toronto. The 12XX sries has a small plater as well. The later "CS" series have a very lightweight platter and are overpriced (I have a CS5000 that commands high price, but really isn't a very good TT in my opinion. But it has a broken arm, and these are worthless without the stock arm). Not sure why Dual adopted the larger diameter platter.
I'd check out craigslist (Toronto), used shops, Habitat for Humanity stores (any thrift type store), electronic repair places, and stereo shops. You never know what you might find.
If I can find an occasional one in "redneck" Alberta, you should be able to find all sorts in Toronto. The 12XX sries has a small plater as well. The later "CS" series have a very lightweight platter and are overpriced (I have a CS5000 that commands high price, but really isn't a very good TT in my opinion. But it has a broken arm, and these are worthless without the stock arm). Not sure why Dual adopted the larger diameter platter.
I'd check out craigslist (Toronto), used shops, Habitat for Humanity stores (any thrift type store), electronic repair places, and stereo shops. You never know what you might find.
Hello
So you say those Dual with idler drive mostly has 10" platter not 12".
Do that effect the sound in any way the record is larger, it will hang in the air 1" all around.
I purchased my Elac $15 plus tax.
If all idle drives Dual has 10" platter I chose heavy platter, if I can get with strong motor.
You can sell your Dual 5000, I sow many time on Ebay Dual 5000 tonearm.
Those guys who replace the original arm get huge upgrade.
The arm look nice but that is all.
Even the old Grace 707 arm huge upgrade over the 5000 tone arm.
Greetings Gabor
So you say those Dual with idler drive mostly has 10" platter not 12".
Do that effect the sound in any way the record is larger, it will hang in the air 1" all around.
I purchased my Elac $15 plus tax.
If all idle drives Dual has 10" platter I chose heavy platter, if I can get with strong motor.
You can sell your Dual 5000, I sow many time on Ebay Dual 5000 tonearm.
Those guys who replace the original arm get huge upgrade.
The arm look nice but that is all.
Even the old Grace 707 arm huge upgrade over the 5000 tone arm.
Greetings Gabor
Hello
These is the platter for 1009, 1019 etc
DUAL 1009 7LB PLATTER DISC FOR TURNTABLE DECK MAY FIT 1015 1019 PART | eBay
Real heavy piece,I still want to see the motor also.
When I use a carbon fibre brush to gently clean the record from the dust and the motor stop to me that is a very week motor.
Greetings
These is the platter for 1009, 1019 etc
DUAL 1009 7LB PLATTER DISC FOR TURNTABLE DECK MAY FIT 1015 1019 PART | eBay
Real heavy piece,I still want to see the motor also.
When I use a carbon fibre brush to gently clean the record from the dust and the motor stop to me that is a very week motor.
Greetings
His links were linked to THUMBNAIL pictures, hence the "th" in the link. A little editing takes you right there.
http://i43.servimg.com/u/f43/11/73/38/69/p1020013.jpg
http://i43.servimg.com/u/f43/11/73/38/69/th/p1020014.jpg
One reason I prefer a picture link is that when I want to show pictures to my non-audiophile friends they don't have to go through the hassle of joining the forum. I like the fact the pictures are out in the public... since I got them from the public, mostly searches from Google Images.
.
I understand your point, but in a few months when those links are broken much of the context of the post may be lost. Frequently the links don't load properly as well - I have this problem frequently.. And finally it does often result in a better experience for our members..
sorry to hijack this thread but would the following be a good combo.
oracle delphi with spectrum psu,and rega arm | eBay
with a ortofon jubilee cartridge and perhaps a jelco 750d arm.
i too have seen a linn lp12 with a hercules II ps for about 900euro, is that a fair price you guys think?
oracle delphi with spectrum psu,and rega arm | eBay
with a ortofon jubilee cartridge and perhaps a jelco 750d arm.
i too have seen a linn lp12 with a hercules II ps for about 900euro, is that a fair price you guys think?
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