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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?
Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?
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Old 8th November 2019, 09:49 AM   #4121
jzagaja is offline jzagaja  Poland
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Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ro808 View Post
The dark colored stuff in the middle and at the bottom?
Exatcly.
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Old 8th November 2019, 10:19 AM   #4122
Ro808 is online now Ro808  Netherlands
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2x Pro Audio TL subs,

Wisdom Audio's Regenerative Transmission Line® :

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AXIOM Manifolded Transmission Line:

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Old 8th November 2019, 11:14 AM   #4123
Ro808 is online now Ro808  Netherlands
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...And tapped horns are basically transmission lines with the mouth tap filling the hole in the response that's common with 'regular' end loaded transmission lines.

Last edited by Ro808; 8th November 2019 at 11:17 AM.
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Old 8th November 2019, 01:17 PM   #4124
nc535 is offline nc535
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I was just going to comment on that when I saw your post. Only a little bit surprisingly, the tapped horn subwoofer community doesn't seem to have hit upon partially stuffing the pipe to tame some of the resonances those horns so clearly suffer from. No doubt its because that might cost a db or two at the very low end.
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Old 8th November 2019, 01:44 PM   #4125
papasteack is offline papasteack  France
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nc535 View Post
I was just going to comment on that when I saw your post. Only a little bit surprisingly, the tapped horn subwoofer community doesn't seem to have hit upon partially stuffing the pipe to tame some of the resonances those horns so clearly suffer from. No doubt its because that might cost a db or two at the very low end.
Don't say this in subwoofer forum
Bjorno is the master of stuffing
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Old 8th November 2019, 01:49 PM   #4126
nc535 is offline nc535
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No doubt there is an art to it.

Just playing with HR. In my sole example, I see partially stuffing the first segment moderates the peaks pretty well but doesn't smooth them out totally. Stuffing any other segments kills the low end.
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Old 8th November 2019, 09:34 PM   #4127
papasteack is offline papasteack  France
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Play with S1 area, L12 lengh, and stuffing only at the beginning of L23. And free to you to add low pass chamber (throat chamber) firing a S3/S4 depending if your in TH/TH1 mode... But it's totally off-topic; and i prefer weird dual reflex bandpass arrangements that now hornresp offers (BPB/PBC) ^^

Last edited by papasteack; 8th November 2019 at 09:37 PM.
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Old 8th November 2019, 09:34 PM   #4128
mlee is offline mlee  Canada
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Ignore this post if you already know this but maybe needs mentioning again.

I believe group delay is directly related to roll off so ported sealed or tl can have the same group delay if they all have the same roll off characteristics. Eq can change the group delay so depending on application it might not be an issue for you. Also the audibility of group delay in bass region is large before it becomes a problem. I don't have a source for this on hand right now.

Also just a quick note on my limited testing with linearization of phase in the bass region. I liked it better with no phase correction below 100hz but testing wasn't controlled well. I also couldnt tell zero phase VS slowly increasing phase wrap in a 2 way system. Used rephrase on the same system to test.
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Old 8th November 2019, 10:17 PM   #4129
papasteack is offline papasteack  France
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlee View Post
Ignore this post if you already know this but maybe needs mentioning again.

I believe group delay is directly related to roll off so ported sealed or tl can have the same group delay if they all have the same roll off characteristics. Eq can change the group delay so depending on application it might not be an issue for you. Also the audibility of group delay in bass region is large before it becomes a problem. I don't have a source for this on hand right now.

Also just a quick note on my limited testing with linearization of phase in the bass region. I liked it better with no phase correction below 100hz but testing wasn't controlled well. I also couldnt tell zero phase VS slowly increasing phase wrap in a 2 way system. Used rephrase on the same system to test.
I like to play with hornresp multiple entry horn and output frequency/phase to see group delay in REW. I'm not yet enough confortable with real crossover sofware, something that my brain don't want to work with whereas i love playing with hornresp. So, i play with ME1, the driver between the two others, to delay it more or less, filter more or less, to get with the same response curve, different group delay. Counter-intuitive, but with some destructive partially out of phase nulling, it works, and i start understanding how to move sliders to get what i want. But for that, i need a 3 ways driver at least for this "filler driver".
Here a example while i was trying to figure out how to remove the bumps in GD curve around 200-500hz. The only differences between all the curve are Eq/filters, and input power of the woofer filler driver working between 150-350 hz. The third picture shows promising effects.
And higher order sub (here a kind of 6th order bandpass 40-150hz set in hornresp as a 4th order bandpass + a lot of EQ to get same resultant FR/phase), needs + 5ms delay alignement of others ways as show when it group delay is showed separatly in last picture (don't look too much to artefacts).

Again...it's off-topic, sorry. Just to say, eq don't do all on phase. And FIR isn't anymore the futur ^^
Attached Images
File Type: png gd1.PNG (54.1 KB, 210 views)
File Type: png gd2.PNG (56.0 KB, 214 views)
File Type: png better.PNG (56.7 KB, 212 views)
File Type: png frd1.PNG (145.5 KB, 27 views)
File Type: png jjj.PNG (15.4 KB, 24 views)

Last edited by papasteack; 8th November 2019 at 10:27 PM.
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Old 9th November 2019, 01:32 AM   #4130
camplo is offline camplo
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#Random
This is the Axi2050 group delay on a 250hz jmlc
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File Type: jpg Axi2050decay.jpg (535.4 KB, 78 views)
File Type: jpg Axi2050groupdelay.jpg (308.9 KB, 82 views)
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