Today I compare 2 streamers.
1. Ian FifoPiQ7 with the SC-PURE clock's soldering on the board and the HDMIPI PRO i2s output.
2. Usbridge signature usb output with the Shanti power supply.
The DAC I use is the Denafrips Terminator Plus.
I also downloaded the TEST TONE from the Denafrips site to be sure the i2s settings are correct.
https://www.denafrips.com/config-i2s
Sorry to say but I hear no difference.
Regards
Rudy
1. Ian FifoPiQ7 with the SC-PURE clock's soldering on the board and the HDMIPI PRO i2s output.
2. Usbridge signature usb output with the Shanti power supply.
The DAC I use is the Denafrips Terminator Plus.
I also downloaded the TEST TONE from the Denafrips site to be sure the i2s settings are correct.
https://www.denafrips.com/config-i2s
Sorry to say but I hear no difference.
Regards
Rudy
Attachments
@BMW850 tell us more about connections. What is source for the Ian stack? Ie files on Pi or volumio SharePlay?
What’s is source on usbridge?
How are they both connected to denafrips ? Ian via i2S hdmi out or hdmi pro out?
Usbridge connection to denafrips is I assume usb input.
I don’t know the usbridge.
What’s is source on usbridge?
How are they both connected to denafrips ? Ian via i2S hdmi out or hdmi pro out?
Usbridge connection to denafrips is I assume usb input.
I don’t know the usbridge.
Thanks. Denafrips is I know a great box. It would be cool to put an Ian DAC stack (like mine
up against something that good. I know gabster has done this but he doesn’t name (I don’t think he does) the comparators he is putting his Ian DAC up against but he says they are in the $15k range I think. I know it blew away my cheaper DACMagic which is only about $600US. It’s now a doorstop backup for me.
I love your listening room too. Looks fantastic!
It's surprising that you don't hear any difference at all. The 2 sources, the source power supply, the clock, the clock power supply are all different.
I'd even accept that the USB source sounds better, it's the lack of difference that surprises me.
Plus as I can see the whole audio chain is high-end level, so there should be no problem with resolution (my chain is much worse).
Swapping my own FIFO Q3 average power supply (3.3V to 5V) for a LiFePo battery with UcConditioner and Salas-L power supply with UcConditioner sounded very good to me.
I'd even accept that the USB source sounds better, it's the lack of difference that surprises me.
Plus as I can see the whole audio chain is high-end level, so there should be no problem with resolution (my chain is much worse).
Swapping my own FIFO Q3 average power supply (3.3V to 5V) for a LiFePo battery with UcConditioner and Salas-L power supply with UcConditioner sounded very good to me.
Hi all,
In full transparency and in order to maybe help others (but I doubt it you are all very smart), here is my current DAC stack config diagram on how everything is connected. I have to figure out how SYNC works. I still don't get it. I have blue lights all the time and during play, they sometimes go off for five minutes and come back on so everything is keeping charging to pure mode automatically without the SYNC cables in place.
According to Ian the ways to improve would be to replace the LinearPiDuo with 2 UCPures to power the OPA861. I don't see value in the toroids to power UCPure as the blue is almost always on...and this means the isolation mode is on 95% of time and my cheap power bricks aren't even connected.
Would rather invest more money next into a pre-amp as I go direct into power monitors and y'all say I'm missing something big
Right now this combined with my streamer is heavenly Pure music better than I've every heard (which maybe aint saying much compared to y'all with Macintosh amps and such.....
In full transparency and in order to maybe help others (but I doubt it you are all very smart), here is my current DAC stack config diagram on how everything is connected. I have to figure out how SYNC works. I still don't get it. I have blue lights all the time and during play, they sometimes go off for five minutes and come back on so everything is keeping charging to pure mode automatically without the SYNC cables in place.
According to Ian the ways to improve would be to replace the LinearPiDuo with 2 UCPures to power the OPA861. I don't see value in the toroids to power UCPure as the blue is almost always on...and this means the isolation mode is on 95% of time and my cheap power bricks aren't even connected.
Would rather invest more money next into a pre-amp as I go direct into power monitors and y'all say I'm missing something big
Right now this combined with my streamer is heavenly Pure music better than I've every heard (which maybe aint saying much compared to y'all with Macintosh amps and such.....
Have you tried playing with the software, have you tried installing GentooPlayer? You can put it on both RPi4 and ALLO and compare, you can request a one-week trial for both devices.
Of all the operating systems i try, for me sounds the best, and you have a ton of options to choose from with which you can adjust the sound to your taste.
I work in the ICT and I know that a hardware manufacturer can make a masterpiece, but that doesn't mean anything because a software manufacturer can screw everything up. I have convinced myself of this so many times that I can't even count.
How can I explain it, you can have the best hardware in the world, but if the software can't keep up with it, you're stuck with the same, it's a question of latency, drivers, etc...
It costs you nothing to try.
Of all the operating systems i try, for me sounds the best, and you have a ton of options to choose from with which you can adjust the sound to your taste.
I work in the ICT and I know that a hardware manufacturer can make a masterpiece, but that doesn't mean anything because a software manufacturer can screw everything up. I have convinced myself of this so many times that I can't even count.
How can I explain it, you can have the best hardware in the world, but if the software can't keep up with it, you're stuck with the same, it's a question of latency, drivers, etc...
It costs you nothing to try.
@zabloc not yet. Someone sent that out several weeks ago and it's on my list. And there is some other way to ship over ethernet some special protocol the music over the network.
Correct. software (and Firmware) rules. without it you are left with a pile of expensive components that are mis matched and can't do much (i.e. bad sound).
Correct. software (and Firmware) rules. without it you are left with a pile of expensive components that are mis matched and can't do much (i.e. bad sound).
As far as I understand, you need to have newer versions of monitorPi Pro, UCpure MKIII or purePi 2.
They have the option to connect the monitorpi pro or fifopi q7 mute to the ucpure III with a cable that has SYNC in and SYNC out, you connect the monitor pi pro or fifopi q7 mute out to the UCPURE III SYNC in and with SYNC out you connect to PurePi II SYNC in.
did i confuse too much
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You mean the Diretta protocol? I personally think it's Snake Oil, I could be wrong?
I setup that too, but I didn't hear any difference, honestly, there is no technical explanation on the official website, but some BS about Diretta using current BS.
I'm sorry, but explanations like this insult my intelligence, and they want to charge 100 EUR license for that BS.
Sorry again, I didn't mean to offend anyone.
@zabloc Thanks. I will read it, and then read it better again twice.
I have latest MonitorPiPro (I was first ever user), UCPureMkIII, PurePiMkII (x2), DualMonoDacMkII, ReceiverPiProMkII....you name it. I have every latest board and have bought some twice.
But even without any sync cables on...I am blue 95% of time. So what will sync get me ? - I understand charging when I have no music playing. But I have charging even WHEN music is playing. So I am totally confused as to what it does. My blue PurePi and UCPUre lights as I say almost never go out. when they do (with music playing)....theyre back on in like 5mins.....
So I am dumb. because I don't understand how better than this can it get with sync mode.
Also MUTE i have never figured out. In volumio, mute works. If I am playing a source coming in through SPIDIF Coax or Optical, mute just mutes my MPiPro screen, but doesn't mute the music. With the streamer and volumio, mute properly pauses the music.
I have latest MonitorPiPro (I was first ever user), UCPureMkIII, PurePiMkII (x2), DualMonoDacMkII, ReceiverPiProMkII....you name it. I have every latest board and have bought some twice.
But even without any sync cables on...I am blue 95% of time. So what will sync get me ? - I understand charging when I have no music playing. But I have charging even WHEN music is playing. So I am totally confused as to what it does. My blue PurePi and UCPUre lights as I say almost never go out. when they do (with music playing)....theyre back on in like 5mins.....
So I am dumb. because I don't understand how better than this can it get with sync mode.
Also MUTE i have never figured out. In volumio, mute works. If I am playing a source coming in through SPIDIF Coax or Optical, mute just mutes my MPiPro screen, but doesn't mute the music. With the streamer and volumio, mute properly pauses the music.
What sync gives you, it gives you when the music stops playing, when you press pause or stop, then fifopi enters the so-called hw mute mode and send signal, same with monitorpi pro.
This is not the classic mute, when you want to silence the music instantly, for example when your phone rings and you press mute on the remote, but the hardware mute of the signal when it stops playing either on pause or stop.
You're not dumb but Ian didn't explain it well enough for everyone to understand, technical brain
With that SYNC/MUTE you get that when you press pause or the music stops playing for any reason, then the power supplies get a signal to go to charging, when the music starts playing again the power supplies get a signal to go back to PURE mode. This can extend the PURE mode time on the power supplies.
This is not the classic mute, when you want to silence the music instantly, for example when your phone rings and you press mute on the remote, but the hardware mute of the signal when it stops playing either on pause or stop.
You're not dumb but Ian didn't explain it well enough for everyone to understand, technical brain
With that SYNC/MUTE you get that when you press pause or the music stops playing for any reason, then the power supplies get a signal to go to charging, when the music starts playing again the power supplies get a signal to go back to PURE mode. This can extend the PURE mode time on the power supplies.
Hi all. I heard some news from Ian. He had provided me this diagram in the last little while and it was very useful to confirm my DAC build.
This is his recommendation to build the highest quality DAC right now at this time, and the power and connections to use.
There is also a blank template to draw your own connections in etc.
Enjoy.
This is his recommendation to build the highest quality DAC right now at this time, and the power and connections to use.
There is also a blank template to draw your own connections in etc.
Enjoy.
Hi Rudy,
You should be able to hear a difference with your setup but it may be very minor. Please let me help you and don’t be offend, I just want to help. Your project pictures helped me lot in building my DDC project and I want to return the favor, I am not done with it yet.
I have listened several streamers and DAC in the last few years for my own research and published test benches in magazines.
- Use music (no streaming ideally) you are very familiar with, preferably high quality acoustic recordings. I have samples I have used for over 25 years.
- The first main difference is often the bass. It becomes clear, less boomy and better balanced with the spectrum.
- You may also hear more details, the musicians breathing, moving, the reverberation of the room, …
- Next is the soundstage. I had the chance to hear a finished project with Ian’s boards in my system and the soundstage was larger than the speakers, deeper and more precise giving a sense of breathing between the instruments. (I have a Holo May KTE)
Sadly, it follows the law of diminishing return. You are living in the high spheres of Audio. Congrats on your setup!
Enjoy the music!
Yves.
I've had difficulties with my Denafrips Terminator regardless of the streamer I use; the sound remains nearly identical very minor differences . The issue with all Denafrips devices is that they reclock the signal. Thank you for confirming this. I suspect they even reclock the I2S signal. However, I may be mistaken. Does anyone know of a method to prevent Denafrips from reclocking the signal? It seems pointless to invest in a high-end streamer and clocks in such a case.
With the Holo spring for example you can bypass the internal clocks.
You can send email to Vinshine Audio and ask how to set Sync mode on Terminator?
https://www.vinshineaudio.com/support
If Terminator works exclusively in Async mode then this explains the BMW850 problem and I see a big flaw in such an expensive DAC.
https://www.vinshineaudio.com/support
If Terminator works exclusively in Async mode then this explains the BMW850 problem and I see a big flaw in such an expensive DAC.
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This is bang on. I use the same 5-10 CD Audio 16/44.1 albums to judge a system and I know them inside out.
The differences you cite are exactly the ones I have heard and posted about when I went to the IAN DAC vs my commercial DAC.....and then again with new clocks after 7-10 days of continuous green lights on SCPUre, I found even more differences in the 3 bullets above re the sound quality.
I will never go back after hearing this....and all from the same monitors I have had for 10 years. They can do it all, they just weren't receiving a fully transparent source......
To me the key magic component are
- FifoPiQ7
- Dual MonoDAC 9038Q2m with XLR outs
- AND...enabling true synchronous mode
The synchronous enabling is instantaneous better sound. The clocks...thats a slow 200 hour burn and then it becomes apparent. The Fifio just enables dual clocks and re-clocking magic.
At least that is what I think so far. Completely my opinion on the above, but a lot of synergy with @Yveskoala thoughts on what to listen for.