I have a question that maybe someone of you who already had the chance to listen to the Mains powered amplifier modules like NCXXXMP or the plate amps can answer. The thing appears maybe rather subjective first, but perhaps someone can even come up with technical reasons for my experience.
I use a Behringer A800 power amp (cheap ClassD) until I have the right amplifying solution for my future DIY speakers. I also have a 1980's Japanese-build solid state power amp (Philips AH 380), was high end back in the days. Both sound equally open and detailed. But whilst the Behringer can deliver much better bass authority, it is fast and strong, which makes up for a very satisfying and dry bass reproduction, it fades away when you hear the smoothness and silkiness of the mids that the Philips produces. It is as if the Behringer sounds brittle and hollow there, it is just very empty. And the old high end solid state does not sound colored, but yet the mids have some thickness or substance whilst being totally smooth and unobtrusive.
Is this a general thing with ClassD and will I experience something similar with the Hypex modules? Does it have to do with certain-order harmonic distortion? I mean I have read something about it a while ago in another thread. Anyway, it is a shame with the Behringer, otherwise it is a great machine. I hope it will be better with the Hypex.
I use a Behringer A800 power amp (cheap ClassD) until I have the right amplifying solution for my future DIY speakers. I also have a 1980's Japanese-build solid state power amp (Philips AH 380), was high end back in the days. Both sound equally open and detailed. But whilst the Behringer can deliver much better bass authority, it is fast and strong, which makes up for a very satisfying and dry bass reproduction, it fades away when you hear the smoothness and silkiness of the mids that the Philips produces. It is as if the Behringer sounds brittle and hollow there, it is just very empty. And the old high end solid state does not sound colored, but yet the mids have some thickness or substance whilst being totally smooth and unobtrusive.
Is this a general thing with ClassD and will I experience something similar with the Hypex modules? Does it have to do with certain-order harmonic distortion? I mean I have read something about it a while ago in another thread. Anyway, it is a shame with the Behringer, otherwise it is a great machine. I hope it will be better with the Hypex.
I don't think that any class-D amp sounds (and measures) the same. Check below the Behringer A800 and a Hypex NC502MP based amp measurements from the same site.
Maybe you hear a better distribution of harmonic distortion with the old Philips but can be other things too.
Anyway, the Hypex measures much better than the Behringer, with a better harmonic distortion distribution of the former, 2nd harmonic being the strongest whilst 3rd harmonic for the Behringer, and that 3rd harmonic is some 20dB higher than the Hypex's for example. But in other parameters objectively, the NC502MP also wins over the A800, but we don't know the Philips AH 380.
Finally, I didn't find my FA253s to be brittle sounding.
Behringer A800 Stereo Amplifier Review | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
March Audio P502 Stereo Amplifier Measurements | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
Maybe you hear a better distribution of harmonic distortion with the old Philips but can be other things too.
Anyway, the Hypex measures much better than the Behringer, with a better harmonic distortion distribution of the former, 2nd harmonic being the strongest whilst 3rd harmonic for the Behringer, and that 3rd harmonic is some 20dB higher than the Hypex's for example. But in other parameters objectively, the NC502MP also wins over the A800, but we don't know the Philips AH 380.
Finally, I didn't find my FA253s to be brittle sounding.
Behringer A800 Stereo Amplifier Review | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
March Audio P502 Stereo Amplifier Measurements | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
Last edited:
I'm not hard core audiophile but I don't miss my Aleph series amplifiers now that I transfer to NC252MP.
I used to have an active system with diy Aleph's (Aleph mini, Aleph 30, Aleph X) but at one point I realize that I don't have that much time for listening to music,so I don't have that extra one hour for heat up time.
I can't say that hypex NCXXXMP sound better or not (vs Aleph's) as I didn't make direct comparation.
I like the sound of NC252MP which for me is neutral, and nothing is in the face, there is nothing wrong with the picture.
It have great control for my type of music ( but I like electronic music, my favorite artist are aphex twin and squarepusher, but I like radiohead, even like billie eilish
for it simplicity, I listen jazz too....so I'm open minded about music, but I like good sound ).
My speakers have Satori BE tweeter, MW16P and peerless XLS sub, amplifiers are NC100HF+NC250MP+NC252MP and analog precision DSP as digital crossover.
Now, this setup sounds really good.Very neutral, and people (audiophiles) who hear it say that it sound great.
Now the only thing you mide say that vocals miss a little warm in the sound...but only little.This mide be because of drivers, not just amplifiers.
I think that you can balance that if you use tube based preamplifier.
But I like them just as thay are and I have no need for anything else...maybe NC400 but...
Any way, I'm happy with my setup with NCXXXMP.
I used to have an active system with diy Aleph's (Aleph mini, Aleph 30, Aleph X) but at one point I realize that I don't have that much time for listening to music,so I don't have that extra one hour for heat up time.
I can't say that hypex NCXXXMP sound better or not (vs Aleph's) as I didn't make direct comparation.
I like the sound of NC252MP which for me is neutral, and nothing is in the face, there is nothing wrong with the picture.
It have great control for my type of music ( but I like electronic music, my favorite artist are aphex twin and squarepusher, but I like radiohead, even like billie eilish
for it simplicity, I listen jazz too....so I'm open minded about music, but I like good sound ).My speakers have Satori BE tweeter, MW16P and peerless XLS sub, amplifiers are NC100HF+NC250MP+NC252MP and analog precision DSP as digital crossover.
Now, this setup sounds really good.Very neutral, and people (audiophiles) who hear it say that it sound great.
Now the only thing you mide say that vocals miss a little warm in the sound...but only little.This mide be because of drivers, not just amplifiers.
I think that you can balance that if you use tube based preamplifier.
But I like them just as thay are and I have no need for anything else...maybe NC400 but...
Any way, I'm happy with my setup with NCXXXMP.
Last edited:
There has been a row at ASR about Hypex power ratings. Precisely not about the ratings provided by Hypex which are correct, but the use of peak power values as amplifier power rating versus continuous power rating. Thats a marketing argument I don't care about and I don't want get in between. Anyway, it raised some new questions.
I was content that FA123 power rating of 60 watt into 8 ohm is pretty much enough for my current listening levels (probably never higher than 80-85 dB at listening position). I could also change DSP settings for higher SPL if I want to use my speakers for some theater situation, which could happen. Anyway, these amps could last a lifetime, sorta.
But 60 watt RMS is peak power of NC122MP. Continuous power is 25 watts! For BTL-mode, I did not find differentiation of continuous vs. peak power at all. Now I am a bit unsure. Because I want to invest into an amp which I can use for long. Update the speaker, maybe go from 2-way to 3-way, keeping the plate amp and so on. The Fusion manual states the FA123 has 2x125 Wrms, which is in the manual of NC122MP the value for peak 4 ohm power. But if I would once decide that I want to run high SPL and bass assisted I easily reach 80+ VA at low frequencies and this is not possible then, right? At least if the music is bass heavy. So I would have to expect the amp shuts down some time, because it can only provide 25 watts continuous? This would be a bit disappointing. And what about BTL continuous power?
I was content that FA123 power rating of 60 watt into 8 ohm is pretty much enough for my current listening levels (probably never higher than 80-85 dB at listening position). I could also change DSP settings for higher SPL if I want to use my speakers for some theater situation, which could happen. Anyway, these amps could last a lifetime, sorta.
But 60 watt RMS is peak power of NC122MP. Continuous power is 25 watts! For BTL-mode, I did not find differentiation of continuous vs. peak power at all. Now I am a bit unsure. Because I want to invest into an amp which I can use for long. Update the speaker, maybe go from 2-way to 3-way, keeping the plate amp and so on. The Fusion manual states the FA123 has 2x125 Wrms, which is in the manual of NC122MP the value for peak 4 ohm power. But if I would once decide that I want to run high SPL and bass assisted I easily reach 80+ VA at low frequencies and this is not possible then, right? At least if the music is bass heavy. So I would have to expect the amp shuts down some time, because it can only provide 25 watts continuous? This would be a bit disappointing. And what about BTL continuous power?
Last edited:
The continous power is per channel, so in BTL mode they stacks. I am not an electrician but I read that the continous power is defined with test signal. Music, movies etc. are not test signals, they contain much less continous electrical power than a continous sine wave.
I would not worry about that.
I would not worry about that.
I was also given the advice that continuous power is a matter of cooling, so it could be extended if one would implement more heat dissipation. With a plate am this is not easily achieved, the only cooling device being the back plate, but still possible with heatpipes if actually necessary. I will try without.
What sort of pre-amplification is necessary? I cannot tell from technical specifications, High Line/Low Line Input Voltage? I have read the whole thread a while ago but forgot the relevant passages by now. I have as sources CD Player (RCA), record player (obviously needs a phono preamp), and PC either S/PDIF straight from Motherboard or RCA from Focusrite 2i2. But I assume the DAC in the Fusionamp is superior to the 2i2. For now I would like to spend as little as possible for pre-amplification.
What sort of pre-amplification is necessary? I cannot tell from technical specifications, High Line/Low Line Input Voltage? I have read the whole thread a while ago but forgot the relevant passages by now. I have as sources CD Player (RCA), record player (obviously needs a phono preamp), and PC either S/PDIF straight from Motherboard or RCA from Focusrite 2i2. But I assume the DAC in the Fusionamp is superior to the 2i2. For now I would like to spend as little as possible for pre-amplification.
Last edited:
Speaking of BTL-mode again: Did you hear a difference in sound when using BTL-mode compared to normal? I was wondering because BTL-mode flattens out second order harmonic distortion products, so there could a difference in sound quality.
Sheeple, I advise you read the Fusionamp manual, all is written down. Yes, the continous power is thermal limited but there is airflow vents on the plates for cooling, so if you completely flush-mount the amps, there is an airflow too. Of course you can increase the airflow with some creative mod, below is mine.
You don't necessarily need a preamp because the Fusions have that function. Of course you can use one if you want for additional functionality or sound signature etc.
The sensitivity of the analog inputs is described on page 17 of the Fusionamp manual.
https://www.hypex.nl/documenten/download/1726
Personally, I haven’t tried BTL mode, so I can’t comment on that. I don't know if it reduces HD 2 or not, but this type of distortion is already in the -100dB range in normal mode anyway, I don't think it's audible or problematic.
You don't necessarily need a preamp because the Fusions have that function. Of course you can use one if you want for additional functionality or sound signature etc.
The sensitivity of the analog inputs is described on page 17 of the Fusionamp manual.
https://www.hypex.nl/documenten/download/1726
Personally, I haven’t tried BTL mode, so I can’t comment on that. I don't know if it reduces HD 2 or not, but this type of distortion is already in the -100dB range in normal mode anyway, I don't think it's audible or problematic.
Last edited:
I'm writing here because the other thread is closed. How can i start two nc250 modules simultaneously from a single button, using j6.3 to j6.9 jumpers stand-by power on. Do you need a 4-pole button? I noticed that by linking from one j6.3 to the two j6.9 does not work. How do you start more modules? using a relay? Thanks.
I tried that (start up one module from another) yesterday and give up...
Now I just use remote wire with external power supplay (5V, on source side) that trigger relay inside ''plate amp'' that short 6.3 and 6.9 on amplifiers ( NC252MP and NC250MP)
Would like to know anwer too
Attachments
I'm also having this problem of it going in protection mode. Loud pops occur when I play the other amp and restart the amp. Not much time left before I can send it back so if you have an a answer it explanation, I'm curious.