Why don't people build more coaxial systems?

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#141
I wouldn't be against bi-amping and active crossover or dsp. I'm exploring options. Thanks for sharing that bi-amp link, I listened to the whole thing (listening from a webpage in the car FTW).

Looking at the datasheet, The ASD1001 needs to be crossed at at least 2kHz. The D220ti maybe at 1.5kHz

To bi-amp, I'd need a separate amp and active crossover for each driver. The XKITZ crossover looks interesting and affordable xkitz
Or I could go the minidsp route, but that gets expensive, an extra $440 for two of them to handle 3 speakers.

6 decent amplifiers can get expensive quickly. The Fosi V3 looks like it might be an option at $90 for stereo (so $270 total), so does the Fosi V3 mono at $130 (would need 6, at $780 a lot more expensive).
 
#143
dotneck335 said:
Coaxial speakers can provide the very BEST stereo image, creating a soundstage that has unreal depth. Best I ever heard was a pair of UREI 813s.
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True... coax also excel at near field.

For years I've been driving Acoustic Energy AE1s. They are not coax, but with a 5" "woofer" it allows the tweeter to be placed very close. The drivers are also of very high quality and they can be biwired as well. If you place them about 12 feet from the listening chair and give 100 watts of very clean power ( and have a very high quality (sub)woofer ) they truly disappear.

In the near field ( these are monitors after all ) they also disappear. And I mean, disappear.

I have them about three feet from my ears and just above my head, with the tweeter outboards and they are truly superb as near field for my computer audio ( Using right now a Nuforce DDA100, but I've used others ).
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Last year I bought a pair of Elac Unifi 2 UB52 speakers. 3-way with a coax tweeter and midrange with a woofer under it. I won't say they are as good as the AE1... but they sound really good and again, with at least 50 watts they also paint a great soundstage. Not as dynamic as the AE1, but then they cost a bunch less. I even drove them with an F4 and they sounded fantastic, if somewhat volume shy... my preamp/amp combo was only good for ~35 watts and that's just not quite enough.

Then I put them as my wife's office system. She had another pair of AE1 but I have designs for them... so in went the Elacs with a Nuforce DDA120. Same location as mine but with the coax on the inside. Again, they flat out disappear and paint a holographic image.

I won't call the Elac Unifi 2 a baby TAD Reference but, that guy Phil Jones is a genius. Compared to the AE1s, their limitations are obvious, but the imaging is outstanding.
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I got to say that for a near field experience, the smaller speakers and specially small coaxes our simply outstanding. You get enough bass to sound convincing and a soundstage the goes deep beyond the wall.
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I got a pair of MarkAudio Tozzi kit.. those are very small full ranges... I plan on using them with two pairs of AE1s and a Schitt Syn to do surround in my home office.... except I keep thinking I could use the Tozzi, the Syn and a ParasoundZ amp to add some ambience to my main 2ch system.
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Yep, killer imaging. Oddly, the Maggies do it very well, but that's just a different kind of imaging.

I'm actually surprised there are so few coax speakers in the middle price ranges. Anyone heard the MoFi SourcePoint speakers? 8 or 10? They are on sale... hmm...
 
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#144
In any case, you need a lot more POWER than many people realize. With a sensitivity of 85 db (as in the above-mentioned Elac Unifi 2 UB52 speakers), you'll need 25 watts to get a modest 99db SPL rms. In most music, peaks are ~14db above the nominal rms level, so that's another 25x power to avoid any clipping. Which brings us to 625 watts. 99db SPL is not overly LOUD to me, just enough maybe to feel the music.
The Xkitz crossover is indeed a quite good value; but perhaps the best bang-for-the-buck would be some of Rod Elliott's projects.
 
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#145
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What are you trying to do? Go to 12? Go for maximum loudness regardless of compression artifacts?

The amount of power is actually based on the noise floor of the system and the static friction of the drivers.... ie: do they need a lot of power to get moving?

If the system has a low noise floor and the speakers are not "sticky" then you simply start looking at the dynamic range of the system.

The Elac Unifi 2 with the F4 driving 35 wpc is very good, it won't play loud but it will play softly very clearly... hence it has the dynamic range, just shifted downwards. Not a rocking speaker but an excellent system for late night, and most sane, listening.

Sure, not like the AE1 that, when driven with 2x100 wpc per side will truly rock ( just add the subwoofer ). But, that's a different animal.

The point is that those speakers image like crazy.
 
#147
^ well, it's not really an issue if the coax drivers are not asked to go very deep. For small speakers I have a pair of active woofers which do very well, and since bass is mostly non directional, so long as the level is smooth over the frequency range ( no bumps or dips in the mid to deep bass crossover region ) then the imaging of the small or coax drivers works very well. Also, without having to deal with the deep bass, they become a lot more dynamic.

In this, the AE1 are a rare bird in that you really want to run them full range... deep bass will just move the speakers about but you won't hear... however they are designed to handle the power. I haven't driven the Unifi 2 that hard but I suspect they can easily handle an Aleph 5. I know they can handle the power of a good 90 wpc SS class A/B, running full range, although the bass does get a little muddy.

The speakers I'm so curious about though, the MoFi SourcePoint speakers.. they are supposed to go deep and they are Andrew Jones babies too.

At 91db/w they seem like they'd be Class A friendly... but I worry they recommend a minimum of 30W... why? And not that I care that much for The Julian Hirsh approach but the Stereophile graphs show a pretty smooth frequence response at the crossover. Red is the SourcePoint 10, blue is the Mission 770 speaker.

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https://www.stereophile.com/content/mofi-electronics-sourcepoint-10-loudspeaker-measurements
 
#148
A must-watch/must-read video for every serious speaker/driver designer :


For those with low budget and accepting compromises (minor) , a similar 5 inch Coax is offered by KEF , the Q150 , in germany only 359 Euro for the pair :

https://www.amazon.de/KEF-Lautsprecherpaar-Heimkino-Regallautsprecher-Stereoanlage/dp/B0728GJWD9/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2O4531JBDE8BV&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.2d2jl13iTY51SDcWN8z1b48B_04PMo6y4zSmremzKgQlnNMGQDUfuEm-er-oXGzje0Nag0adYbEOGPJ0-wZ-aWNjDlgND7gTKXMShjTL-D_cXi6BeZNEqOY8RVakFvU64alQaIBxEqpx7wxQ2jxH7CDKuNRm2dAeC1AENY5gtM4P5q1Lsp9Ilpc8riBV2aqjobtTULWPU8W5POmQDgxTPekvo0Ru_g5xsUTmS_QZ2o.JpZAg-XQoBSwwwc329Ro7Ne8MsGWYOdl7Mp05rMdtrE&dib_tag=se&keywords=kef+q150+white&qid=1711735949&sprefix=kef+q150,aps,629&sr=8-1&th=1

Measurements : https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/kef_q150/

For best sound balance adjust distance to the wall behind the Q150 ...

Can it get any better 🙂 (for the price/without a sub)
 
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#154
wafflesomd said:
The choice of good coax in diy is poor. Good coax to me is kef level stuff. I can get a good woofer and tweeter pair for like 70 bucks but a good coax is like sica 5.5 is 120 each.
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It's the pattern control and even dispersion that makes the difference for me, especially with regard to seating position. Normal midrange/tweeter arrangement change more - in my room at least.
I just started saving up, when wanting certain gear or drivers. Better to buy a few expensive things that you'll love for longer, rather than a lot of stuff you just end up throwing out or selling way cheaper to someone else. But it's great that some do buy stuff and sell it again cheaper.... that's how I got started 😆 👍
 
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