I have a question to ALL.
Two years ago I had cheap tweaks with my KEF Q100 coaxial speaker. It was trial and error.
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1ª Why when I add a RF ferrite to the woofer wires I have more bass and faster?
2ª Why when I add a RF ferrite to the twitter wires I have more too much HF?
3ª Why do bypass with a small 10nF polystyrene the HF are less shrill and more pleasing despite being more detailed than before?
I have my hypothesis and I have read others but I still do not have it clear. Please, serious answers.
Two years ago I had cheap tweaks with my KEF Q100 coaxial speaker. It was trial and error.
[comment]
[/comment]
1ª Why when I add a RF ferrite to the woofer wires I have more bass and faster?
2ª Why when I add a RF ferrite to the twitter wires I have more too much HF?
3ª Why do bypass with a small 10nF polystyrene the HF are less shrill and more pleasing despite being more detailed than before?
I have my hypothesis and I have read others but I still do not have it clear. Please, serious answers.
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You are just imagining things. Such a tiny inductance has no effect.
Measure fr response with and without and you will see.
Measure fr response with and without and you will see.
If I ask the question it is because it works. The effect of RF ferrite on sound is very evident, undeniable.
The effect of the bypass is much smaller in comparison.
Since I can not find a logical explanation, I ask the question here.
The effect of the bypass is much smaller in comparison.
Since I can not find a logical explanation, I ask the question here.
Have to agree with the others. Toole and many others shown that blind (ideally double blind) testing is the only way to remove expectation bias. In your case it shouldn't be hard to set up a blind test:
- Un-modify one of your Q100 speakers.
- Use a simple DPDT switch from one channel of your amp to switch between speakers from your listening position. This also requires enough cheap zip cord wire to reach your amp and to both speakers.
- Have an assistant connect the speakers (without your knowledge) to the DPDT switch. My wife is a great disinterested party when it comes to this. I leave the room while she's connecting the speakers and putting them side by side.
- Put the speakers side by side directly in front of you. An acoustically transparent cloth is required if you can physically distinguish the speakers.
- Play music of your choice and see if you can tell a difference.
An ABX test would be better, but is more complicated to perform. It would also be better if the speakers could be moved to occupy the exact same physical location, but again it would complicate the testing process. Shouldn't be a deal breaker with small bookshelf speakers.
I use the above test when developing crossovers, especially when doing small tweaks so I know if it's really making a difference. I save the zip cord and switch harness and have reused it several times.
PS - If possible, it would be best to un-modify both speakers and run the test as a control. It's not unheard of to have two speakers in a pair sound different due to production differences.
- Un-modify one of your Q100 speakers.
- Use a simple DPDT switch from one channel of your amp to switch between speakers from your listening position. This also requires enough cheap zip cord wire to reach your amp and to both speakers.
- Have an assistant connect the speakers (without your knowledge) to the DPDT switch. My wife is a great disinterested party when it comes to this. I leave the room while she's connecting the speakers and putting them side by side.
- Put the speakers side by side directly in front of you. An acoustically transparent cloth is required if you can physically distinguish the speakers.
- Play music of your choice and see if you can tell a difference.
An ABX test would be better, but is more complicated to perform. It would also be better if the speakers could be moved to occupy the exact same physical location, but again it would complicate the testing process. Shouldn't be a deal breaker with small bookshelf speakers.
I use the above test when developing crossovers, especially when doing small tweaks so I know if it's really making a difference. I save the zip cord and switch harness and have reused it several times.
PS - If possible, it would be best to un-modify both speakers and run the test as a control. It's not unheard of to have two speakers in a pair sound different due to production differences.
The ABX test is not necessary with the RF ferrites. As I do not need it to know if the day is sunny or cloudy, such is the difference in sound. Maybe with the bypass.
The loudspeakers were logically placed the same, on top of their supports (filled with sand).
And it is logical/evident I did first in one speaker to be able to compare. First with RF ferrites and later the bypass.
I did not even perform the capacitor as it can be seen in the photo, in case I had to desolder it! I had planned to change the original with a more expensive Jantzen Z-Cap because I did not think the bypass would have any effect. Being so cheap I did not hesitate to buy them and do the test and get out of doubt.
The loudspeakers were logically placed the same, on top of their supports (filled with sand).
And it is logical/evident I did first in one speaker to be able to compare. First with RF ferrites and later the bypass.
I did not even perform the capacitor as it can be seen in the photo, in case I had to desolder it! I had planned to change the original with a more expensive Jantzen Z-Cap because I did not think the bypass would have any effect. Being so cheap I did not hesitate to buy them and do the test and get out of doubt.
If there really was a change in the level of bass sound when adding a ferrite then the only explanation has been given in post 6: an amplifier design fault.
Marantz SR4500 A/V Receiver HT Labs Measures | Sound & Vision
The sound I have now is much better than two years ago, once solved my very great problems with DC, high voltage, RF/EMI interferences, noise.... and my W10 Pro is better optimized to multimedia.
I bought it second hand to go testing while solving my very great problems. Now it sounds so good that weeks ago I decided not to buy the kit with the class D IcePower 1200AS2 poweramp that sold bavmike. Only $750, a very great bargain I think. Now it is more audiophile and much expensive.
The sound I have now is much better than two years ago, once solved my very great problems with DC, high voltage, RF/EMI interferences, noise.... and my W10 Pro is better optimized to multimedia.
I bought it second hand to go testing while solving my very great problems. Now it sounds so good that weeks ago I decided not to buy the kit with the class D IcePower 1200AS2 poweramp that sold bavmike. Only $750, a very great bargain I think. Now it is more audiophile and much expensive.
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I would be nice if you could measure it, or at least make a recording. Because it doesn't make sense, having some sort of objective comparison would help.
I know it does not make any sense from there the thread. The first stranger was me. I expected a subtle change or nothing.
For now I do not have measurement equipment. I have been focusing these years on solving the aforementioned problems.
These KEF Q100 have low sensitivity so they are not appropriate for DIY class A ALPHA. If I found a DIY project with high sensitivity coaxial I would buy the microphone and take measurements and after I would make the ALPHA but for now I do not need it, so good is the sound. And as it is the second computer, connected to the computer, I almost always hear it in the near field so the room does not seem to affect much and these speakers have a very flat response to have such an elementary crossover.
I have been following the motto for years: step by step.
For now I do not have measurement equipment. I have been focusing these years on solving the aforementioned problems.
These KEF Q100 have low sensitivity so they are not appropriate for DIY class A ALPHA. If I found a DIY project with high sensitivity coaxial I would buy the microphone and take measurements and after I would make the ALPHA but for now I do not need it, so good is the sound. And as it is the second computer, connected to the computer, I almost always hear it in the near field so the room does not seem to affect much and these speakers have a very flat response to have such an elementary crossover.
I have been following the motto for years: step by step.
From the picture, I can see that the ferrite is a common-mode type, which means its effects on the differential frequency response amount to zilch, nix, zero, nada, and it would have the same effect if it was simply placed on the top of the cabinet.
Common-mode effect can be excluded too, because the drivers are completely passive and have a low capacitance/coupling wrt. their surroundings
Common-mode effect can be excluded too, because the drivers are completely passive and have a low capacitance/coupling wrt. their surroundings
I just did the test with my Big cases in the main room (kidnapped by TV and family). They are three way (with a 27 cm woofer).
I put the ferrites on the speaker wires, on the side of the box.
I have lost many bass!!!
I suppose that being another crossover the behavior is different.
I put the ferrites on the speaker wires, on the side of the box.
I have lost many bass!!!
I suppose that being another crossover the behavior is different.
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How did you open the Q100 speaker enclosure? I see the front baffle has 4 rubber plugs, but I don't know what to use to remove the baffle after taking out the plugs.
Thank you,
Geordon
Thank you,
Geordon
Running a single speaker wire (the + lead for example) through an 'RF Ferrite' (do you mean a bead ?) can cause actually cause severe distortion, distortion that is easily visible on a scope. Once the ferrite saturates, the distortion sets in.
Just to clarify that a bit more, I suspect a lot also depends on the material of the conductor running through the bead. I speak from experience here... this has actually happened to me.
Just to clarify that a bit more, I suspect a lot also depends on the material of the conductor running through the bead. I speak from experience here... this has actually happened to me.
I have never had two speakers sound the same when switching between them. So such testing is somewhat floored. Perhaps as my drivers are never matched pairs. Some uni-q speakers are among those tried. I have even moved outside with them, which obviously helped, but not enough to make those final tweaks show in an A-B test. Not until weeks of listening. After which you know them well enough to not need an A-B test.
As I say, no components I've had are matched pairs. Plus I rarely pass the £100 mark per unit. Which likely explains this.
My worst case was some TDL T-Line 3's I stripped out and sent back for individual testing. They all passed, but I have the feeling they just used a multimeter. Though even a simple DC resistance test was showing differences. My group of unwilling testers (who always say it sounds no different, put the tv on) Thought they were terribly matched (using words I won't here) So that was my last commercial set purchased from new. £750 wasted. I sold them for £250 with great relief. I hope they didn't use a multimeter, but they wouldn't say. They mashed up both tweeters though, and said they arrived that way. So I got another set from them, which turned up exactly the same. The magnetically held mesh, having jumped off and landed on the metal dome. They wouldn't believe me though. Another £100 on the bill (£850 plus lots of posting now). Thanks Lockwood Audio, you suck.
I wish this post was shorter.
If you think it sounds better with these parts, I suggest you leave them in. I don't have such a choke to try it, or know enough about your choke to get one. It's hard to join up the dots though. Could the positioning of the choke be playing a part? Modifying the load your crossover is seeing. Perhaps waft some magnets around it, just to help build the picture of whats happening.
As I say, no components I've had are matched pairs. Plus I rarely pass the £100 mark per unit. Which likely explains this.
My worst case was some TDL T-Line 3's I stripped out and sent back for individual testing. They all passed, but I have the feeling they just used a multimeter. Though even a simple DC resistance test was showing differences. My group of unwilling testers (who always say it sounds no different, put the tv on) Thought they were terribly matched (using words I won't here) So that was my last commercial set purchased from new. £750 wasted. I sold them for £250 with great relief. I hope they didn't use a multimeter, but they wouldn't say. They mashed up both tweeters though, and said they arrived that way. So I got another set from them, which turned up exactly the same. The magnetically held mesh, having jumped off and landed on the metal dome. They wouldn't believe me though. Another £100 on the bill (£850 plus lots of posting now). Thanks Lockwood Audio, you suck.
I wish this post was shorter.
If you think it sounds better with these parts, I suggest you leave them in. I don't have such a choke to try it, or know enough about your choke to get one. It's hard to join up the dots though. Could the positioning of the choke be playing a part? Modifying the load your crossover is seeing. Perhaps waft some magnets around it, just to help build the picture of whats happening.