One of the reasons why I like the added "confusion" from my OBs. 
To me, they sound more natural than two drivers "shooting" directly at my head.
It emulates the sound of, lets say a violin, playing in front of me. The violin sound emanates in 3D, not just a projection of two drivers trying to fool me into a 3D sound. The OB, with their open back, are closer to what I feel when I listen.
YMMV, of course!
To me, they sound more natural than two drivers "shooting" directly at my head.
It emulates the sound of, lets say a violin, playing in front of me. The violin sound emanates in 3D, not just a projection of two drivers trying to fool me into a 3D sound. The OB, with their open back, are closer to what I feel when I listen.
YMMV, of course!
The most important part for me is something I've said for a long time: make up your own mind about what you like.
On this forum it stays pretty civil but at times it feels like on ASR you have to be devoted to the scripts of Toole to fit in, or expect a whole lot of "you know what".
It is OK to like something intensely while someone else might have a different preference. Don't let others 'decide' or 'prescribe' what you like, just figure it out yourself.
I guess that's the most important part that I get out of it, something that I've striven to find out for myself.
On this forum it stays pretty civil but at times it feels like on ASR you have to be devoted to the scripts of Toole to fit in, or expect a whole lot of "you know what".
It is OK to like something intensely while someone else might have a different preference. Don't let others 'decide' or 'prescribe' what you like, just figure it out yourself.
I guess that's the most important part that I get out of it, something that I've striven to find out for myself.
A quick comparison, not completely honest, due to my living room remodel, but interesting...
Raw measurement graphs, no DSP applied, I'll compare the ETC of the unshaded arrays with their frequency shaded counterpart:
The pure raw unshaded arrays as measured in June 2018:
And their pure raw frequency shaded counterparts, as measured in August this year:
While the reflection at 6.5 ms in the first graph could very well be a misplaced cushion between my poster and the couch, the most notable thing is the sudden drop after the peak of the frequency shaded arrays. The living room renovation helped, as I got rid of that awful metal ceiling we had before, plus I could center the damping panel/poster a bit more precise to go between both arrays (making it act similar left and right). Different drivers, different room characteristics and added filters, but it does seem to do something.
Just now looking at it I notice the switch in colors Left and Right, but heck, so much have changed, it isn't even a valid comparison anyway.
Raw measurement graphs, no DSP applied, I'll compare the ETC of the unshaded arrays with their frequency shaded counterpart:
The pure raw unshaded arrays as measured in June 2018:
And their pure raw frequency shaded counterparts, as measured in August this year:
While the reflection at 6.5 ms in the first graph could very well be a misplaced cushion between my poster and the couch, the most notable thing is the sudden drop after the peak of the frequency shaded arrays. The living room renovation helped, as I got rid of that awful metal ceiling we had before, plus I could center the damping panel/poster a bit more precise to go between both arrays (making it act similar left and right). Different drivers, different room characteristics and added filters, but it does seem to do something
.Just now looking at it I notice the switch in colors Left and Right, but heck, so much have changed, it isn't even a valid comparison anyway
.
I just loved to see this when browsing the forum this morning:
A very sensible idea to combine the OS waveguide with Synergy technology. Tasteful execution, about the only thing I would have done different is a round over on the sides only. Even though this look probably says: "business!". It fits in the total picture. More info here. I do think this execution is prettier than Danley's planned home speaker. And it won't hurt to use the OS waveguide either.
I showed them to my girl: it's not that she didn't like them, but they just are too big! Go figure I got away with arrays. Probably still the smart choice for me and I don't regret it. But if I didn't have to save space, I'd like to imagine I would have come up with something like this. If I could hold myself back enough and wouldn't have gone for a tower array of bass speakers with a synergy horn stuck in the middle of them.
A very sensible idea to combine the OS waveguide with Synergy technology. Tasteful execution, about the only thing I would have done different is a round over on the sides only. Even though this look probably says: "business!". It fits in the total picture. More info here. I do think this execution is prettier than Danley's planned home speaker. And it won't hurt to use the OS waveguide either.
I showed them to my girl: it's not that she didn't like them, but they just are too big! Go figure I got away with arrays. Probably still the smart choice for me and I don't regret it. But if I didn't have to save space, I'd like to imagine I would have come up with something like this. If I could hold myself back enough and wouldn't have gone for a tower array of bass speakers with a synergy horn stuck in the middle of them
.
My wife didn't mind my phy open baffle.
It was 6' tall which made it seem not as room dominating as 39" tall x 24" wide double 15 cabinet, let alone the 2384 horn on top.
Center panel of the open baffle was 16" wide with piano hinges. Wings were angled 45 degrees back but 24" deep.
My jbls now are room friendly, at 14.5" wide and 28" tall.
It was 6' tall which made it seem not as room dominating as 39" tall x 24" wide double 15 cabinet, let alone the 2384 horn on top.
Center panel of the open baffle was 16" wide with piano hinges. Wings were angled 45 degrees back but 24" deep.
My jbls now are room friendly, at 14.5" wide and 28" tall.
I can imagine that the difference between acceptable and horrendous can be a small nuance at times. Heck, I don't know why my girl has accepted these arrays. It clearly is a boy toy with that many speaker drivers staring at you. Those OS Synergy monsters scream the same... If I would have been single, no family to take into account, I would have come up with something far worse... As my Pinterest Audio link will show . Almost all of them scream testosterone...
. Almost all of them scream testosterone...
On other news this week, I'm zooming in to something worthwhile to keep, DSP settings wise. Yesterday afternoon, while enjoying a few days off from work, my girl and my son were fighting to pick the next song to play. That's always a good sign. While it still is a bit on the dark side, to me tonally, it does do a whole lot of music very well. While it may seem easy enough to make it sound brighter, it isn't all that easy in practice. What's missing is knowing what it should be if you start with a speaker that isn't flat naturally.
Arrays need EQ, so we don't start with a sort of natural balance like with most speakers that are properly designed.
Mid/side EQ + ambience channels isn't making things easier either, it is a balancing act and small tweaks can go a long way. You know, the kind of tweaks that people keep telling us you shouldn't be able to hear. Guess what, remove enough room effects in the early period after the main peak and you'll be surprised what small nuances you can hear. What is there already is entertaining though.
I've made the switch to Windows 10 (yeah I know, still one version behind) from Windows 7 and thoroughly regret the move. It doesn't hurt me on the audio side, but I have to find several cures on the movie side where, despite my use of a powerful enough RTX 3060 TI, I suddenly can't run 4K of MadVR madness anymore without weird hick-ups. It looks beautiful picture wise, but I get sudden dropped frames and strange render times etc. Never had that problem with Win 7 Pro.
Arrays need EQ, so we don't start with a sort of natural balance like with most speakers that are properly designed.
Mid/side EQ + ambience channels isn't making things easier either, it is a balancing act and small tweaks can go a long way. You know, the kind of tweaks that people keep telling us you shouldn't be able to hear. Guess what, remove enough room effects in the early period after the main peak and you'll be surprised what small nuances you can hear. What is there already is entertaining though.
I've made the switch to Windows 10 (yeah I know, still one version behind) from Windows 7 and thoroughly regret the move. It doesn't hurt me on the audio side, but I have to find several cures on the movie side where, despite my use of a powerful enough RTX 3060 TI, I suddenly can't run 4K of MadVR madness anymore without weird hick-ups. It looks beautiful picture wise, but I get sudden dropped frames and strange render times etc. Never had that problem with Win 7 Pro.
I'm having doubts over my choice of words here... by 'boy toy' I din't mean 'toy boy' or any other modern explanation.
I only had a version of No. 1. in mind, be it that it was supposed to be about material matters... I guess toys for boys was a better description?https://www.collinsdictionary.com/ said:
I mean I'm a grown man, 55 years of age, yet I still like certain kind of toys, like some cars and bikes (I owned a 911 for 16 years as a daily driver and made myself a custom Harley many years ago) or ... speakers with an attitude...
My heart still beats faster (or skips a beat) when hearing toys like this:
Inside I'm still that little boy, only the toys got bigger...
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Wesayso, All,
Have you tried HQPlayer? I fell down that rabbit hole a few days ago. It has filters and oversampling algorithms, things that a DAC would normally do. Initially, it sounded spooky good. More natural and airy. But after more thorough comparison with JRiver, I concluded that it is fun on some tracks but not so good on the others. HQPlayer also needs a front end and I tried Roon, which is great except it doesn’t make it easy to play from iTunes, whereas Jriver is like a swiss amry knife with the WDM driver.
Ken Newton and others on this forum did a study and found oversampling at the source and then feeding the DAC at the highest sample rate allowed sounds better. I tried this and found it to be absolutely true. This is what HQPlayer is doing. Doing this with JRiver is equally effective though.
Curious to hear if you played with it and have any thoughts. It is one of those things that you might enjoy investigating.
Edit: I found the FIR and IIR filters very intuitive in HQPlayer and especially the graphing function is very nice.
Have you tried HQPlayer? I fell down that rabbit hole a few days ago. It has filters and oversampling algorithms, things that a DAC would normally do. Initially, it sounded spooky good. More natural and airy. But after more thorough comparison with JRiver, I concluded that it is fun on some tracks but not so good on the others. HQPlayer also needs a front end and I tried Roon, which is great except it doesn’t make it easy to play from iTunes, whereas Jriver is like a swiss amry knife with the WDM driver.
Ken Newton and others on this forum did a study and found oversampling at the source and then feeding the DAC at the highest sample rate allowed sounds better. I tried this and found it to be absolutely true. This is what HQPlayer is doing. Doing this with JRiver is equally effective though.
Curious to hear if you played with it and have any thoughts. It is one of those things that you might enjoy investigating.
Edit: I found the FIR and IIR filters very intuitive in HQPlayer and especially the graphing function is very nice.
I don’t know, but why would it not work on a regular DAC? I tried on my non-NOS DAC and my non-blind listening test suggested it works. It sounded better when I fed it with the highest sample rate it could take and did the OSing in Jriver. I do have an NOS DAC and the effect is the same. Again, totally non-blind evaluation, so take it for what it is
Ken’s report:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...between-some-dacs.386815/page-24#post-7047652
Ken’s report:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...between-some-dacs.386815/page-24#post-7047652
Hi ra7,
I never played with HQPlayer. I do over-sample all audio within JRiver to the highest value my DAC allows me though. Long story, but I ran into some incompatibility issues once and oversampling solved all of those problems so it seemed a good way to go. I had tested it previously and it worked quite well, even within a loop-back of DAC to mic-in it showed good results. (clean impulse) My DAC isn't a NOS, it actually is an oversampling DAC. The updated second generation, using it with S/PDIF.
Whenever I do testing on these matters, I come to my own conclusion, with sighted tests but then let my son hear (unsuspecting, so blind) and let him tell me his opinion.
And I always retest him to make sure he isn't just hearing things because I was feeding him. I can even downplay something and he will still be brutally honest stating his opinion. So far he hears the things I hear, I've made him into a music addict for life. He has his own stereo (using old components from me) and he's become a huge Pink Floyd fan, as well as loving Ayreon (Arjen Lucassen) and Infected Mushroom. It's a good thing he also has his own musical taste besides that. Always hoped that he would share my love for Cars, but it has become a shared passion for music instead. That works for me too.
Within JRiver I did try SoX for resampling duties but that didn't go too well. I got very nasty sounds and I could trace it back to using that option within JRiver. I had used SoX quite often for FIR filter handling, and figured I could trust the program to do a good job, but I guess it just doesn't work well in real time with my elaborate DSP chain.
I'm currently moving towards JRiver's 64-bit version, due to still using an old VST plugin that's 32 bit only, I kinda stuck to the 32 bit version of JRiver.
With the newer Metaplugin VST I use I can simply bridge 32 bit apps if needed. Or I'll have to find a proper replacement... I kind of stuck with what worked and was still using JRiver 22 until about 4 months ago. I figured with everything new I'd have to move towards more 'current' software at some point. So far it's been rather painless except for the Video part within Windows 10 Pro. That rather painless isn't without upgrading files here and there, but in the end it should bring everything close to current versions again. I had ea few days off, I figured I'd upgrade all of it, so far I'm still not a fan of Win 10 (used it extensively as system administrator at work) as it just puts layers in between everything (to protect it from user abuse). Having to tell Windows to allow apps to be able to scale video etc. And if it does scale, it's randomly slow at it while Win 7 never had any hick-up like that. If I were convinced I could do all I want to do on Linux, I'd make the move. But my favorite 3D design software can't run on that...
I never played with HQPlayer. I do over-sample all audio within JRiver to the highest value my DAC allows me though. Long story, but I ran into some incompatibility issues once and oversampling solved all of those problems so it seemed a good way to go.
I had tested it previously and it worked quite well, even within a loop-back of DAC to mic-in it showed good results. (clean impulse) My DAC isn't a NOS, it actually is an oversampling DAC. The updated second generation, using it with S/PDIF.Whenever I do testing on these matters, I come to my own conclusion, with sighted tests but then let my son hear (unsuspecting, so blind) and let him tell me his opinion.
And I always retest him to make sure he isn't just hearing things because I was feeding him. I can even downplay something and he will still be brutally honest stating his opinion. So far he hears the things I hear, I've made him into a music addict for life. He has his own stereo (using old components from me) and he's become a huge Pink Floyd fan, as well as loving Ayreon (Arjen Lucassen) and Infected Mushroom. It's a good thing he also has his own musical taste besides that. Always hoped that he would share my love for Cars, but it has become a shared passion for music instead. That works for me too
.Within JRiver I did try SoX for resampling duties but that didn't go too well. I got very nasty sounds and I could trace it back to using that option within JRiver. I had used SoX quite often for FIR filter handling, and figured I could trust the program to do a good job, but I guess it just doesn't work well in real time with my elaborate DSP chain.
I'm currently moving towards JRiver's 64-bit version, due to still using an old VST plugin that's 32 bit only, I kinda stuck to the 32 bit version of JRiver.
With the newer Metaplugin VST I use I can simply bridge 32 bit apps if needed. Or I'll have to find a proper replacement... I kind of stuck with what worked and was still using JRiver 22 until about 4 months ago. I figured with everything new I'd have to move towards more 'current' software at some point. So far it's been rather painless except for the Video part within Windows 10 Pro. That rather painless isn't without upgrading files here and there, but in the end it should bring everything close to current versions again. I had ea few days off, I figured I'd upgrade all of it, so far I'm still not a fan of Win 10 (used it extensively as system administrator at work) as it just puts layers in between everything (to protect it from user abuse). Having to tell Windows to allow apps to be able to scale video etc. And if it does scale, it's randomly slow at it while Win 7 never had any hick-up like that. If I were convinced I could do all I want to do on Linux, I'd make the move. But my favorite 3D design software can't run on that...
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Oh btw I'm sorry if I missed it but the thread is absolutely massive, what 3D design software do you use?
Autodesk Inventor, I've used it professionally as a Mechanical designer but I also gave training etc.
These days I still use it at work (teacher's license) for educational purposes, as I'm no longer working in the technical field.
I've used it (extensively) for all of my hobby projects too.
https://www.vandermill-audio.nl/
http://www.apfelbeck.nl/ and https://www.facebook.com/ApfelbeckOHC,
Sold this project to a friend, but I've re-designed those heads from scratch.
If you're looking for a good option for hobby use I'd recommend using Fusion 360.
These days I still use it at work (teacher's license) for educational purposes, as I'm no longer working in the technical field.
I've used it (extensively) for all of my hobby projects too.
https://www.vandermill-audio.nl/
http://www.apfelbeck.nl/ and https://www.facebook.com/ApfelbeckOHC,
Sold this project to a friend, but I've re-designed those heads from scratch.
If you're looking for a good option for hobby use I'd recommend using Fusion 360.
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djk (rip) was impressed with the big western electric 15a...............
and he was hard to impress.
could use some eq, but dynamics and immediacy !!
I'd put dynamat on the outside of the horn and felt where the horn walls come together at 90 degrees, or any breaks in the horn path by the mouth.............
and he was hard to impress.
could use some eq, but dynamics and immediacy !!
I'd put dynamat on the outside of the horn and felt where the horn walls come together at 90 degrees, or any breaks in the horn path by the mouth.............
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Metaplugin does what it needs to do and I have free upgrades regularly . It was an old linear phase EQ tool that does not want to work well in a 64 bit environment.
Metaplugin accepts it (it can bridge 32 bit VST's) but I cannot get the complete GUI to show to properly use it. In other words useless. I'm currently working to use another linear phase EQ tool, but all Q factors differ so it is a labor of love to find the right values.
. It was an old linear phase EQ tool that does not want to work well in a 64 bit environment.Metaplugin accepts it (it can bridge 32 bit VST's) but I cannot get the complete GUI to show to properly use it. In other words useless. I'm currently working to use another linear phase EQ tool, but all Q factors differ so it is a labor of love to find the right values.