Do you have any way of knowing if these would be representative of a random new pair from an official distributor? You liked the older versions, right?
@howardg Yes, I like the older version better. This newer redesign shows some skimping in important areas. The faceplate is flimsy and the back chamber is resonant at Fs, but that can be easily dealt with using some surface dampening. The FF is easy to deal with, as I'd remove it regardless of application. It can always be added in later. As far as the overall FR and performance above 1k, it's the same as the old one. It does sound very good overall. If I'd compare the DSM50FFL to the Dayton 2" metal mid dome, its quite a step up from that one. It doesnt have the typical Ti breakup most other domes have. Be aware that the replacement domes they sell don't fit the older version. The connector tabs are placed differently. I dont know the cutoff date for the changeover of diaphragm styles.
I'm also thinking about this for my pair, especially as the finished speaker can't handle brutal levels as it will only be equipped with an 8-inch woofer in BR. The cooling properties of FF may then not even be necessary.
In any case, I'm curious to see what will become of your pair. 🙂
As far as my pair is concerned, I'll see if I can at least test the match of my two specimens with impedance measurements in the next few days. Incidentally, I bought the two DSM50FFLs second-hand, but so far I've only measured RE to make sure they're not broken.
I find the shape of the faceplate comparatively difficult to rout in. I could probably manage it somehow, but I could also look around for two defective G50FFLs, as their round front panel supposedly fits the naked DSM50FFL. Or I could ask nicely at Visaton.... 🙂
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I do not assume that anybody in particular, (including you, Azreal😉) do not know this technique; but I put it here for those who have not tried it yet. This is a small shop technique for those of us without a CNC router:
A router flush trim bit that has its bearing above the cutting edges can be called a "pattern bit". If one makes a pattern of sufficient thickness, a driver rebate (or other cut-out) can be made by attaching the pattern on top of the work and running the top bearing along the pattern. These are also good for exactly repeating a cut-out multiple times.
Patterns of unusual shape can be tedious to make----much more skill and patience involved (and sometimes some plastic body filler to fix mistakes) than round patterns; but tracing the face plate and using appropriate wood bits for the radiused corners can get one most of the way there.
The audio world is a world of the greatest contradictions. I have indeed heard a lot of different top hiend systems, with very different solutions. I've also been building speaker systems myself for years, based on speakers like and top speakers like Scan Speak Ellipticor or Bliesma beryllium drivers, but by far, the absolute best speakers I've listened to were built on Accuton diamond domes, and the crossover filters used were ultra-steep. Below is a test of the exact same pair of Gauder speakers that I had the great pleasure of listening to.
https://soundrebels.com/gauder-akustik-berlina-rc11-black-edition-english-ver/
My solution for this has been 3d printing a template. I then stick it to the wood and then just sink in my router bit by bit. Perfect size/shape every time
If designing and printing is easier for the crafts-person, than is creating the template by more manual methods, I can see how it would be preferred. For me either type of template seems easier to use/create than the one in the video, but each person approaches a task in the way that appeals to them. The method in the video did seem to get good results.
I do CAD daily and 3d print daily for my job. I could see how learning these skills would be more difficult to learn, however, it takes me under 60 seconds to model up a template, slice it, and send it to the 3d printer. Then I just go do something else for 20 minutes, come back, and I have a perfectly accurate template. Once you have the skills, its impossible to beat when comparing work put in to effect.
@Bryguy Regardless of routing method you use, it still necessitates cleaning up the corners which the bit can't copy exactly. You're always left with a soft corner with a shape of the router bit radius. You'll have to clean it up by hand which isn't easy.
The smallest bit you'll safely be able to run on a reasonably powerful router is 1/4", but you can use 3/16" plunge cut bits if you go SLOW. I've had a few of these bits come apart on me in my wimpy 1/4 hp Dewalt.
To get a nice sharp corner when routing a rebate into a baffle, you need to route it following the outer basket shape exactly, then use a small flat chisel to notch out the remaining corner, making it as sharp as the driver basket. There's no way around this. Even then, you're still left with a tiny bit of cleanup on the corners, unless you're happy with routing a slightly larger cutout (adding the radius size to your cutout) and having a small gap around the basket.
My preferred method of dealing with countersinking weird basket shapes is adding a thinner gauge top panel to the baffle that has the basket shape previously cut out of it. This makes it easier to clean up the sharp corners with a file after the basket pattern is cut with a router and a 1/4" bottom flush cut bit. You can file the whole depth of the top panel this way to get more precise corners.
I use a scroll saw to cut out a negative template of the driver basket shape. Then secure the new template to the upper baffle panel and route the basket shape with a 1/4" dia bottom flush cut bit (equipped with a ball bearing above the cutting bit). You just following the inside of your template, routing the basket pattern. You then have to file out the sharp corners which the radius of the bit couldn't copy. Using this method allows you to file from the top. This ensures you don't splinter out a chunk of wood from the top of the baffle. In the worst case scenario, if you screw it up, you can at least cut a new upper panel instead of ruining the entire baffle.
The smallest bit you'll safely be able to run on a reasonably powerful router is 1/4", but you can use 3/16" plunge cut bits if you go SLOW. I've had a few of these bits come apart on me in my wimpy 1/4 hp Dewalt.
To get a nice sharp corner when routing a rebate into a baffle, you need to route it following the outer basket shape exactly, then use a small flat chisel to notch out the remaining corner, making it as sharp as the driver basket. There's no way around this. Even then, you're still left with a tiny bit of cleanup on the corners, unless you're happy with routing a slightly larger cutout (adding the radius size to your cutout) and having a small gap around the basket.
My preferred method of dealing with countersinking weird basket shapes is adding a thinner gauge top panel to the baffle that has the basket shape previously cut out of it. This makes it easier to clean up the sharp corners with a file after the basket pattern is cut with a router and a 1/4" bottom flush cut bit. You can file the whole depth of the top panel this way to get more precise corners.
I use a scroll saw to cut out a negative template of the driver basket shape. Then secure the new template to the upper baffle panel and route the basket shape with a 1/4" dia bottom flush cut bit (equipped with a ball bearing above the cutting bit). You just following the inside of your template, routing the basket pattern. You then have to file out the sharp corners which the radius of the bit couldn't copy. Using this method allows you to file from the top. This ensures you don't splinter out a chunk of wood from the top of the baffle. In the worst case scenario, if you screw it up, you can at least cut a new upper panel instead of ruining the entire baffle.
I like this also. This is part of what I described in post #1464
The wave-guide extension is something that I have done a couple of times---with decent results. Here it also facilitates having the tweeter flange mounted behind the mid flange----by flaring the tweeter opening into the "wave-guide extension"
Another time this 5.2mm plywood with "wave-guide extension" was part of a grill frame on a classic KLH 19, that I refitted with Wavecore drivers. The KLH 19 baffle was recessed about 1/4", so when the grill was in place, it made a pretty seamless transition, with no abrupt edges, all concealed behind the original linen grill cloth. It made a stock mid-60's look, with kick-@ss performance. A recycled Mackie/Loud Technologies 6x9" PR occupied much of the back panel.
There is such a wide range of quality in router bits. I sometimes buy cheap bits, but when performance and endurance is important, the American brand "Whiteside" is pretty dependable. I think that this may be especially true for solid carbide cutters, like the ones that are suited for circle cutting jigs and plunging.
I think your enclosure workmanship likely blows mine away.
I am engineer first and woodworker second. I am probably less worried about the woodwork craftmanship than the average person on here.
I've done similar with either Dynamat type damping sheets built up to the correct thickness and then covered with nice looking vinyl or Tolex. You can also achieve a nice result with cork applied to the front baffle. It comes in many thicknesses and colors/patterns.
Good points 👍
I´ve made a gigg for 130 & 210 Audaxdrivers, but hate when a really want a non circular driver hahaha
You can be "the best" carpenter, it´s trickey anyway
I apologize in advance for the long OT post.
I agree with everyone here. I'm likely overly observed with alot of the details that goes into making enclosures. I see this as an extension of the driver in how it delivers its sound. The transfer of energy (both good and bad) to the air as well as to the ground, with which the enclosure is coupled, both matter equally. Its not always an exact science. You just go with what your instincts tell you.
@jawen I will let you and everyone else in on a small secret - sometimes its just better to throw out all that perfectionistic crap and just build something. I tend to be very picky about the way a cabinet fits together. Its really tiring being this way and sometimes keeps me from stepping out of my comfort zone. When I cut my panels, I try to aim for a size tolerance of a few thousandths of an inch. IOW, I treat cutting wood like its metal work. Obviously there will be some warpage and out of square stuff, but as long as its a little bigger, you can use a flush cut bit to make it even.
@studiotech I'm not so great at veneer work so I tend to use the top layer baffle panel that had the basket cut out as my finished wood surface. The sides just get a thinner layer added to it which had a nicer finish. I hate sanding. Its messy and labor intensive.
Up until it was harder to buy baltic birch, I'd use the better looking side of that material as my finished surface. I used to use higher grade Formica as a finish, mainly because it was easy to deal with and ended up being the finish that didn't need sanding or staining. Its harder to find nice Formica now that Corian is popular for countertops.
@Bmsluite I'd wager to say my cabinet work is obsessively accurate, but its not always pretty or creative. I tend to use the original format of the wood to its fullest potential, being guided by that for the sake of using as much of the material as possible without waste. I'm often blown away by people who can pull off a large radius on a baffle. You can buy this special bendy type of plywood, but its hard to work with if you're trying to end up with a nice solid and stiff enclosure wall. I used to use fiberglass, but thats now too far out of my comfort zone, plus its messy, bad for you and labor intensive. Bondo and other filler is the same type of thing. Thats why I don't do painted finishes.
@howardg I've had too many close calls with cheap, low quality router bits. I dont run them fast when I'm loading them heavy to avoid a catastrophic bit failure. I learned my lesson with cheap bits after I had a cutting bit shatter apart, embedding a big fragment in my stomach. It looked like someone shot me with a 9mm, just missing my spleen. Now I wear a leather apron to be safe. I always recommend using 1/2".shank bits. They're more durable. As far as brands, I like Freud, Whiteside and Amana. They're expensive, but much better quality and much safer than those Chinese POS bits that come in a big assortment, costing only $30. I'm not against Chinese stuff, but critical things like tools can actually badly hurt you. I haven't had a single bit failure since I started buying higher quality bits. These will actually save you money in the long run because they're serviceable with the availability of replacement bearings.
If you work with MDF (which I avoid like the plague), you'll know how hard this stuff is on your tools and blades. Sometimes you just don't have a choice. It just gums up all your bits and blades, swells up like a pretzel and has a shelf life.
Again, sorry for the long OT post.
I agree with everyone here. I'm likely overly observed with alot of the details that goes into making enclosures. I see this as an extension of the driver in how it delivers its sound. The transfer of energy (both good and bad) to the air as well as to the ground, with which the enclosure is coupled, both matter equally. Its not always an exact science. You just go with what your instincts tell you.
@jawen I will let you and everyone else in on a small secret - sometimes its just better to throw out all that perfectionistic crap and just build something. I tend to be very picky about the way a cabinet fits together. Its really tiring being this way and sometimes keeps me from stepping out of my comfort zone. When I cut my panels, I try to aim for a size tolerance of a few thousandths of an inch. IOW, I treat cutting wood like its metal work. Obviously there will be some warpage and out of square stuff, but as long as its a little bigger, you can use a flush cut bit to make it even.
@studiotech I'm not so great at veneer work so I tend to use the top layer baffle panel that had the basket cut out as my finished wood surface. The sides just get a thinner layer added to it which had a nicer finish. I hate sanding. Its messy and labor intensive.
Up until it was harder to buy baltic birch, I'd use the better looking side of that material as my finished surface. I used to use higher grade Formica as a finish, mainly because it was easy to deal with and ended up being the finish that didn't need sanding or staining. Its harder to find nice Formica now that Corian is popular for countertops.
@Bmsluite I'd wager to say my cabinet work is obsessively accurate, but its not always pretty or creative. I tend to use the original format of the wood to its fullest potential, being guided by that for the sake of using as much of the material as possible without waste. I'm often blown away by people who can pull off a large radius on a baffle. You can buy this special bendy type of plywood, but its hard to work with if you're trying to end up with a nice solid and stiff enclosure wall. I used to use fiberglass, but thats now too far out of my comfort zone, plus its messy, bad for you and labor intensive. Bondo and other filler is the same type of thing. Thats why I don't do painted finishes.
@howardg I've had too many close calls with cheap, low quality router bits. I dont run them fast when I'm loading them heavy to avoid a catastrophic bit failure. I learned my lesson with cheap bits after I had a cutting bit shatter apart, embedding a big fragment in my stomach. It looked like someone shot me with a 9mm, just missing my spleen. Now I wear a leather apron to be safe. I always recommend using 1/2".shank bits. They're more durable. As far as brands, I like Freud, Whiteside and Amana. They're expensive, but much better quality and much safer than those Chinese POS bits that come in a big assortment, costing only $30. I'm not against Chinese stuff, but critical things like tools can actually badly hurt you. I haven't had a single bit failure since I started buying higher quality bits. These will actually save you money in the long run because they're serviceable with the availability of replacement bearings.
If you work with MDF (which I avoid like the plague), you'll know how hard this stuff is on your tools and blades. Sometimes you just don't have a choice. It just gums up all your bits and blades, swells up like a pretzel and has a shelf life.
Again, sorry for the long OT post.
I have a saying: "Perfection is the enemy of completion". Being slightly autistic and having a strong tendency toward similar perfection, I fully understand what you deal with. I have battled this my whole life and I think found a happy medium that doesn't put me in a "freeze" state where I cannot make a decision or do something because I might mess it up. So, I must tell myself that saying over and over or nothing will ever get done. My version of "pick your battles" but in my own head
@Bmsluite We have something significant in common. I'm also blessed with ASD. As we say, its a blessing and more of a curse. The main blessing is being able to hear stuff most people can't. Its also the curse. Fussing over 1/2 dB fluctuations in FR gets to be tiring very quickly.
I agree with your view on perfectionism. Its my nemesis.
I agree with your view on perfectionism. Its my nemesis.
Yup, no one else can even tell.
Another benefit is being able to learn things at a lightening pace. I don't even take that for granted.
I am good at making wood things, but it takes serious time. I have learned to make prototypes, so that I know the sound works before committing to a finished product. I like to rebuild classic walnut cabinets with new drivers. It is satisfying. I suspect many of us have O'LSD---- Obsessive Loudspeaker Spectrum Disorder.