As well as keeping the cabinet volume the same, the enter of gravity is also an issue when modifying the design.
Boxing an amp on the back would require moving the pole mount towards the rear to be balanced.
I prefer amplifiers and DSP placed where they don't require being lifted overhead, and running a single cord to the speaker cabinet, but DIY any way you like!
Art
I am getting around to the final stretch of my "rig in 20 minutes" DJ setup with 2x syntripps, 2x monitors and subs according to venue and available power?
I am looking for the best password protected dsp amp options to pair with the syntripps that can be set with good calculated limiters so I can leave the syntripps without supervision and people can put whatever stupid input gain alterations during an evening without me worrying. Suggestions?
I also have had insane success with my dbx pa2 dsp for room eq and my 2x 2x8 2-way img line + 15-18" subs. I would never had imagined I could get such a "club pressure" within a small building and too large PA for the location. Current recipe for very small venue consists of a room calibrated mono setup with a 40hz 36db Lpf and 6-12db slope from 4000 Hz paired with a stereo fill with full range stereo high output hifi 6.5" 2-ways on top of the mono cabs. I also like to do a general eq drop around 120hz in order to increase overall output and pressure in the 150-400hz area without room drooning. Unconventional but chest thumping clarity at a volume where no one can disturb each other with talk and without fatigue 😅
Can I for best end result do source to dbx pa2 DSP and then to DSP amps of syntripps (mid + high) aswell as low output to active subwoofer chain or stack of amps for passive subs? I am thinking dsp on syntripp amps provide the exact open air calibration and the dbx pa2 before them provided room correction? Correct limiters on syntripp amps should take care of dangers any eq gains give right?
I am looking for the best password protected dsp amp options to pair with the syntripps that can be set with good calculated limiters so I can leave the syntripps without supervision and people can put whatever stupid input gain alterations during an evening without me worrying. Suggestions?
I also have had insane success with my dbx pa2 dsp for room eq and my 2x 2x8 2-way img line + 15-18" subs. I would never had imagined I could get such a "club pressure" within a small building and too large PA for the location. Current recipe for very small venue consists of a room calibrated mono setup with a 40hz 36db Lpf and 6-12db slope from 4000 Hz paired with a stereo fill with full range stereo high output hifi 6.5" 2-ways on top of the mono cabs. I also like to do a general eq drop around 120hz in order to increase overall output and pressure in the 150-400hz area without room drooning. Unconventional but chest thumping clarity at a volume where no one can disturb each other with talk and without fatigue 😅
Can I for best end result do source to dbx pa2 DSP and then to DSP amps of syntripps (mid + high) aswell as low output to active subwoofer chain or stack of amps for passive subs? I am thinking dsp on syntripp amps provide the exact open air calibration and the dbx pa2 before them provided room correction? Correct limiters on syntripp amps should take care of dangers any eq gains give right?
Whatever you use, the secret to good sounding protection is using separate peak and long term RMS limiters for each pass band, with different attack and release setttings appropriate for each range.
I never completed safe "bulletproof" settings before selling my SynTripP cabinets and processors, so can't give you anything specific.
That will work.
Yes.
Check posts around 1123-1125 for more details.
I happened to have a 16ohm demo CDX14-3050 when I started the project, ended up with an 8 ohm pair that did not match particularly well. I used neo drivers to save weight, but they will not fit everyone's budget.
Several different drivers have been used, posts around #729 have alternate HF driver options.
I prefer dealing with B&C, so would probably go with their DE920TN.
You posted in the PA forum you were looking for 130+db@1m usable to 100ish Hz above a pair of Skhorn double 21”s.
The SynTripP won't get that loud, or keep up with Skhorn's for PA use.
Art
Hi Leo,
This looks amazing, is there any cad plan of the syntripp for download ?
What drivers do you recommend ?
Good Day Everyone, first of all I take off my hat to the whole community of dedicated builders that are feeding this adventure with valuable knowledge and data. infinite gratitude to you all.
Also a big thanks to you Art for your dedication and hard work, I believe the wolrd is a better place thanks to people like you.
Now here comes some tricky questions for which I could not find answers within the 61 pages of this thread, but maybe some background first :
As my Sound Quest moves forward, I am currently designing Sound Systems using only Analog devices on the entire sound chain. At the exception of the original media player which can be a "CDJ" type of device, the entire audio path is analog from DJ mixer to Amp. Signal Processing is done using mastering grade and 90s 19" rack units like Drawmer compressor and EQs, 500 series module and 31 Band EQs. The crossover work is usually done using near vintage Rane crossovers or similar second hand units and I have been getting great results as far as sound quality is concerned. I do know how to use DSP and am very familiar with them in every way, however I would like my future builds to be compatible with a fully analog processing chain. This would be my 11th criteria right after the 10 criterias you based your work on (which I all fully agree on and would like to maintain valid).
Now the use of Analog Crossovers usually comes with serious limitation vs. DSP capabilities, the biggest ones being fixed filter slopes (in most case LR24 or BW24 with some exception for very hard to find devices) and the lack of analog delay tools for time alignment. I do own some units with 2ms delay capabilities on the LF output but delay on HF is a tool I haven't seen anywhere so far on analog crossovers. I could of course try to build one myself but I still lack some knowledge and skills to do so.
So here come my questions : do you see any adaptation to the current design that would remove the need for delay between outputs on the active configuration, and do you think that using identical filter slopes for every driver could work if well compensated with EQing and level matching ?
Thanks again for all the brain juice already provided to the community, as analog processing is a topic I haven't read about around here I thought it would make a nice addition to the conversation (as I see around me more and more DIYers going back to full analog systems, it would be great to find a solution to allow the use of the Syntripp design to this criteria).
Cheers,
H
Also a big thanks to you Art for your dedication and hard work, I believe the wolrd is a better place thanks to people like you.
Now here comes some tricky questions for which I could not find answers within the 61 pages of this thread, but maybe some background first :
As my Sound Quest moves forward, I am currently designing Sound Systems using only Analog devices on the entire sound chain. At the exception of the original media player which can be a "CDJ" type of device, the entire audio path is analog from DJ mixer to Amp. Signal Processing is done using mastering grade and 90s 19" rack units like Drawmer compressor and EQs, 500 series module and 31 Band EQs. The crossover work is usually done using near vintage Rane crossovers or similar second hand units and I have been getting great results as far as sound quality is concerned. I do know how to use DSP and am very familiar with them in every way, however I would like my future builds to be compatible with a fully analog processing chain. This would be my 11th criteria right after the 10 criterias you based your work on (which I all fully agree on and would like to maintain valid).
Now the use of Analog Crossovers usually comes with serious limitation vs. DSP capabilities, the biggest ones being fixed filter slopes (in most case LR24 or BW24 with some exception for very hard to find devices) and the lack of analog delay tools for time alignment. I do own some units with 2ms delay capabilities on the LF output but delay on HF is a tool I haven't seen anywhere so far on analog crossovers. I could of course try to build one myself but I still lack some knowledge and skills to do so.
So here come my questions : do you see any adaptation to the current design that would remove the need for delay between outputs on the active configuration, and do you think that using identical filter slopes for every driver could work if well compensated with EQing and level matching ?
Thanks again for all the brain juice already provided to the community, as analog processing is a topic I haven't read about around here I thought it would make a nice addition to the conversation (as I see around me more and more DIYers going back to full analog systems, it would be great to find a solution to allow the use of the Syntripp design to this criteria).
Cheers,
H
H,
1/3 octave EQ on each output won't provide the filter Q resolution to achieve flat response with the SynTripP design. You could use analog parametric EQ to do it and still use LR 24 slopes, though using the same frequency and slopes for the 10" and HF driver will require more PEQ bands to compensate for the differing slopes.
The 0.4ms delay on the HF could perhaps be done with an analog all pass filter, you may find response "close enough" without.
Art
1/3 octave EQ on each output won't provide the filter Q resolution to achieve flat response with the SynTripP design. You could use analog parametric EQ to do it and still use LR 24 slopes, though using the same frequency and slopes for the 10" and HF driver will require more PEQ bands to compensate for the differing slopes.
The 0.4ms delay on the HF could perhaps be done with an analog all pass filter, you may find response "close enough" without.
Art
Art,
Thank you for confirming my thoughts, I expect an accurate build to provide a strong base to tune the Syntripp speaker with analog tools. I do plan to use exclusively stereo parametric EQ to tune the boxes, the graphic EQ is mostly used to treat very localized acoustic events (like wood resonance of a stage structure).
My research on allpass filters for HF delay tends to show that delaying the HF driver will lead to a non linear delay (as shown on the attached picture). I don't know how this would affect the perception of "unified sound" coming out of the synergy horn, but looking forward to test and measure it.
H
Thank you for confirming my thoughts, I expect an accurate build to provide a strong base to tune the Syntripp speaker with analog tools. I do plan to use exclusively stereo parametric EQ to tune the boxes, the graphic EQ is mostly used to treat very localized acoustic events (like wood resonance of a stage structure).
My research on allpass filters for HF delay tends to show that delaying the HF driver will lead to a non linear delay (as shown on the attached picture). I don't know how this would affect the perception of "unified sound" coming out of the synergy horn, but looking forward to test and measure it.
H
Attachments
(Sorry for being off topic I'm unable to send direct messages as a new user) Pelanj I'm in Cz too, preparing to build a pair, can we get in touch?
We’d like to share some of our experiments with additive manufacturing methods, i.e. large scale 3d printing with pellets instead of filament. We have made a keystone subwoofer quite some time ago, you can find it in the keystone thread.
We have adapted the SynTripp design to make it printable. Also we’ve adjusted the throat horn curve a tiny bit, as well as the extension. We've increased the extension length by a bit to increase directivity to lower frequencies. Here are some photos of the build process. We nickname it the "SynTripPp" with the last p for printed.
It feels really dead and stiff. It's made of a composite which has a substantially higher tensile strength than baltic birch. The downside, the way we designed it, it is also heavier than made off wood. You can't have it all
What are your thoughts?
This looks clean and interesting. Would you mind sharing additionnal information please? I'm interested to know the
This build is impressive.!! It looks neat. Did you went ahead with additional measurements? Any advice for people willing to go this way? Would you mind sharing the files here? what were the costs please?We’d like to share some of our experiments with additive manufacturing methods, i.e. large scale 3d printing with pellets instead of filament. We have made a keystone subwoofer quite some time ago, you can find it in the keystone thread.
We have adapted the SynTripp design to make it printable. Also we’ve adjusted the throat horn curve a tiny bit, as well as the extension. We've increased the extension length by a bit to increase directivity to lower frequencies. Here are some photos of the build process. We nickname it the "SynTripPp" with the last p for printed.
It feels really dead and stiff. It's made of a composite which has a substantially higher tensile strength than baltic birch. The downside, the way we designed it, it is also heavier than made off wood. You can't have it all
What are your thoughts?
Are there any other commercial options of the SynTripp than this one? https://www.additaudio.com
Hello everyone! Merry Christmas and a happy new year.
So I'm on holiday and of course I have brought my SyntripP with me in order to make some measurements and get it EQed flat.
I've downloaded REW and set it up for my soundcard, I have an external dBmeter and a measurement microphone and plenty of good will.
What's the best way to measure a frequency response? (without hanging it 10m up high!)
At 1 meter from the edge of the cabinet? 1m from the compression driver? 10m?
Any advice is appreciated 👍
Have a good one!
So I'm on holiday and of course I have brought my SyntripP with me in order to make some measurements and get it EQed flat.
I've downloaded REW and set it up for my soundcard, I have an external dBmeter and a measurement microphone and plenty of good will.
What's the best way to measure a frequency response? (without hanging it 10m up high!)
At 1 meter from the edge of the cabinet? 1m from the compression driver? 10m?
Any advice is appreciated 👍
Have a good one!
Hello Leo,
Awesome Build! Our local collective wants to replicate that! Since we are students and don't have experience with woodworking our uni will help us out.
I still got a couple of questions though:
1. In the pictures you use this i assume Rubber Belt thingy to mount the secondary horn. Could you give me a name of that or tell me where to find something like that? Seems easier to mount than with ratchets!
2. You also seem to have added some more structural support to the secondary horns with those horizontal and vertical beams. Could you be so kind as to explain why that was necessary, if at all? We would preferably just cnc everything and then screw everthing together so we don't have to first learn some woodworking haha.
3. From your pictures I gather you have actually made the parts for the secondary horn by hand, right? That seems a bit too hard for us with all the curves and angled edges etc. Do I understand correctly that the angled edges on the curved parts of the secondary horn are only for better visual presentation? Just leaving them out would make it a lot easier.
Thank you for your answers!