What joke? Who's joking? Those things work! I can hear it quite clearly in "my" living room. HUGE diffences. Just because it can't be measured does not mean that it is not present. It just means that the electrical parameters to measure have not yet been found. So the test themselves are flawed.
But it's there! I can hear it. I have the only measuring instrument needed. My ears! And please don't insult me and tell me it's my imagination. I CAN HEAR IT. What more proof do I need than that?
Cheers,
AJ
But it's there! I can hear it. I have the only measuring instrument needed. My ears! And please don't insult me and tell me it's my imagination. I CAN HEAR IT. What more proof do I need than that?
Cheers,
AJ
Audiophilenoob said:seems that a lot of the people supporting that cables make a difference live in countries where drugs are legal
No, not in my country.
Notice that a cable, with it's inductance and capacitance parameters, in fact forms a filter.
Output impedance of the source component + cable + input impedance of the destination (like the pre) = filter.
A cable has several pf capacitance (sometimes tens) per meter.
If this doesn't make any difference, then what does?
The difference is clear to those who have an open mind.
What happens is that your mind is much stronger than you ears.
If you have so impregnated your mind that it doesn't make a difference, your ears may he hearing it, but your mind will make you ignore it.
Or Zen, for that matter
As a matter of fact, if any of you guy's want to know the fact's, I am sure I can provide some evidence on my previous post! I am on vacation right now, so you will have to wait a bit! I have some Welding EE's on my job, being quite sure about this!!I did laugh at them at first, but they are persisting, claiming their right's
This magnetic thing is not pure, upspin
Steen
Audiophilenoob said:
seems that a lot of the people supporting that cables make a difference live in countries where drugs are legal
That's counter-intuitive, because in countries where it's illegal, there's more use. That's the whole point, but you'r in good company, EVERYBODY misses that.
Nice try, though, but no points.
Jan Didden
PS The real story is, that in NL you are legally allowed to posses 5 grams of marihuana. Because it is considered for personal use. More, and you are arrested because you are considered a dealer. So, you ask, how do I get my 5 grams?? You buy it what we call "koffie-shops" (I know, lousy creativity with names). Under state supervison. So, we have ZERO crime related to soft drugs. Cheap, clean, everybody happy. Wish we could solve alcohol adddiction so well!
And no, 5 grams hash is not addictive, not unhealthy, helps you cope with life and beats prozac hands down. Any more questions?
carlosfm said:[snip]Output impedance of the source component + cable + input impedance of the destination (like the pre) = filter.
A cable has several pf capacitance (sometimes tens) per meter.
If this doesn't make any difference, then what does?
The difference is clear to those who have an open mind.
What happens is that your mind is much stronger than you ears.
If you have so impregnated your mind that it doesn't make a difference, your ears may he hearing it, but your mind will make you ignore it.
Carlos,
You have a voltage source (amp), and you put couple 1000pF in parallel. What does that to the amp output voltage? Nothing, niente, nada. Yet you hear a diffrence.
Your problem is, your mind is much stronger than you ears.
If you have so impregnated your mind that it DOES make a difference, your ears may not be hearing it, but your mind will make you perceive it.
Jan Didden
I just did my own wire break-in. I plugged the wire right into the 120V AC line (yes one wire into each) and voila!
Instant void elimination, no clogged wires. So plum simple, I can't figure out why I never did it before. What a difference. The 60 Hz signal is spectacular. I say it's better than the boutique cables now.
Anyone else tried this?
Cal
Instant void elimination, no clogged wires. So plum simple, I can't figure out why I never did it before. What a difference. The 60 Hz signal is spectacular. I say it's better than the boutique cables now.
Anyone else tried this?
Cal
OK, I must confess. I am deaf.
Several years back (in the good old days, when the 16,5kHz
from my TV was still 6db louder ... LOL... ), I tried to proove to my
brother that I could hear the difference. Before that I did a lot of
trials and ended up with some 150x0.1mm stranded HF litz.
Well, during the double blind test I did 17 'wrong' and 15 'right'
decisions. Or 15 right and 17 wrong? Anyway, close to half / half.
Hm, since that I am usually using any suitful standard wire, just taking
care for proper connectors ....prefering screwed connectors.....
Nevertheless I can fully agree that after changing something
in my stereo set... besides my intended upgrade there is a mysterious improvement of sound which needs up to two weeks to grow to full extend....
But I noticed this after most of my changes. And up to now I was convinced that this is simply the effect of getting used to it.
People, does anyone have a test speaker crossover layout on the make these days? Please move the components from + rail to - rail. Mirror swap. No technical difference for every simulator and test rack on earth. Can you listen to some difference? Subtle territory? See for yourself.
As for cables...come on, they cry out loud their sonic signatures. Kimber and VDH are just cable makers not mass hypnotists. Every audiophile who has exchanged a couple of interconnects or speaker cables in his system, knows there is a definite signature.
Its an established fact. Else the special cable industry would have collapsed on day 1.
I dont like to have to deal with obscure factors in systems either, its annoying. But to ignore them? OK if it disturbs my tranquility. But then again modern world may do when I get older. Hmm I can always move to Salt Lake City.
As for cables...come on, they cry out loud their sonic signatures. Kimber and VDH are just cable makers not mass hypnotists. Every audiophile who has exchanged a couple of interconnects or speaker cables in his system, knows there is a definite signature.
Its an established fact. Else the special cable industry would have collapsed on day 1.
I dont like to have to deal with obscure factors in systems either, its annoying. But to ignore them? OK if it disturbs my tranquility. But then again modern world may do when I get older. Hmm I can always move to Salt Lake City.
janneman said:
Actually I was talking about interconnects, which are also cables.
Talking about speaker cables, I have seen amps heating like hell, triggering their protections because of a pair of cables.
Those same amps sounded bad with those cables from the first second you switched them on. Loose bass, no treble... a mess.
Those same cables worked fine with other amps.
Now... I know you can have a zobel, those amps that behaved bad are badly made, blah, blah blah...
But the point is: cables DO make difference.
Those who don't know or don't believe didn't even cared to try it and they make their words as the last ones.
For me, those in doubt will have to prove me wrong (and not the reverse), because this is very old story for me.
I've tested LOTS of amps, cables, speakers, CDPs.
The most important for me is the active components, of course.
But cables do make difference, and who says otherwise doesn't have experience in the field.
Sorry...
Mike started this thread by stating that he was not impressed with speaker cables prices and couldn't understand why all the fuss when you are eventually running the signal through a passive XO.
He mentionend nothing about interconnects. No one is arguing that interconnects don't make a difference. (well...not in this thread yet anyway)
The "why" in the topic refers to why one would spend that kind of money on speaker cables. It's a question I often ask myself.
That's a "why" that anyone has yet to answer satisfactorily. Hence these 10 pages of...well...you decide.
Carlos,
I believe cables make a difference. Sometimes you can hear that difference, sometimes you can't. But I also believe they make much more of a difference if you want them to.
Cal
He mentionend nothing about interconnects. No one is arguing that interconnects don't make a difference. (well...not in this thread yet anyway)
The "why" in the topic refers to why one would spend that kind of money on speaker cables. It's a question I often ask myself.
That's a "why" that anyone has yet to answer satisfactorily. Hence these 10 pages of...well...you decide.
Carlos,
I believe cables make a difference. Sometimes you can hear that difference, sometimes you can't. But I also believe they make much more of a difference if you want them to.
Cal
Cal Weldon said:
That's where you failed to understand me, because I don't want them to.
I don't give too much importance to cables, but they do make difference.
I've already said on this thread that the speaker cables on my main system are 15 years old.
If I lost my sleep with cables, where would they be now?
Cal Weldon said:
Take a bad system (speakers, amp, source) and change the source component to a much better one.
You will hear improvements.
So what's the point?
Actually, most times speaker cables make more audible difference than interconnects.
And with passive crossovers it can be even worse.
An amp doesn't like very complex loads, and if you have a very complex crossover the speaker cable may be the last shot to the amp.
Some things are as easy as 1+1=2.
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