Madmike2 said:I tried the no coil on the woofer trick right off i played with 1st 2nd 3rd order crossovers. This Morel does not like playing full range its nasty in the mid 3k area.
When i first got them a few weeks ago that is.
Does it burn? Yes, it does.
To complicate matters even more for you 🙂D ), you need to let the new cable-in for a few days.
Madmike2 said:
To complicate matters even more for you 🙂D ), you need to let the new cable
-in for a few days.Re: Does it burn? Yes, it does.
why on earth does a cable need to burn in? can you provide any proof that copper changes after a few days?
carlosfm said:
To complicate matters even more for you 🙂D ), you need to let the new cable
why on earth does a cable need to burn in? can you provide any proof that copper changes after a few days?
Re: Re: Does it burn? Yes, it does.
It is the well-known cross-latticing effect. When you move the cable around (and also during transportation) it causes vibrations in the material which loosens the field bonding in the crystals. This in effect causes micro-voids in the lattice that increase the oxygen contents in the material, and we all know what THAT means.
Give the cable a few days and the micro-voids will evaporate, tightening the field bonding and regularising the lattice. The low-level granularity of the cable will improve dramatically.
It isn't really necessary to have the cable carrying signals, but it will help in the same way a demagnetising coil in the old tape days would improve the low-level granularity of recording heads.
Jan Didden
Audiophilenoob said:
It is the well-known cross-latticing effect. When you move the cable around (and also during transportation) it causes vibrations in the material which loosens the field bonding in the crystals. This in effect causes micro-voids in the lattice that increase the oxygen contents in the material, and we all know what THAT means.
Give the cable a few days and the micro-voids will evaporate, tightening the field bonding and regularising the lattice. The low-level granularity of the cable will improve dramatically.
It isn't really necessary to have the cable carrying signals, but it will help in the same way a demagnetising coil in the old tape days would improve the low-level granularity of recording heads.
Jan Didden
SY said:
Indeed. ROSL (Relax On Second Level) is a much more subtle effect, which normally is taken for granted. It has nothing to do with the micro-voids, but with the physical change in the crystals due to localised pressure points resulting from the vibrations.
If the vibrations were so strong that the physical integrity of the crystals is damaged, then, even when, after a few days, the micro-voids disappear, ROSL will no longer take place and the cable is permanently damaged, and no burn in can rescue it.
But I must say that I have never seen such a cable, but the effect can be shown in lab conditions.
Jan Didden
The power of imagination never ceases to amaze me. Cable sound? Burn in!!?
. In the minds of the beholder I suppose. Reality is far, far removed from such foolishness. Perhaps those who make such assertions could provide a single shred of scientific evidence where any of this has been PROVEN to be audible. Yes,yes, I know - ABX testing is wrong because it reveals the hallucinating Audiophool quickly and embarassingly,etc,etc. A much more scientific method is listening in your own living room for months with no one else around to hear these dramatic changes. Thats all the proof needed. And of course, lets not forget our Shakti Stones, green markers and $10K power cords to really liven things up. Make sure to have a few drinks to really sharpen the senses also.
Me, I'm just plain deaf and dumb. I'll squander my hard earned $ on useless junk like better drivers and more advanced electronics,etc. Radio Shack or Home Depot has all the wire I'll ever need.
Cheers,
AJ😉
. In the minds of the beholder I suppose. Reality is far, far removed from such foolishness. Perhaps those who make such assertions could provide a single shred of scientific evidence where any of this has been PROVEN to be audible. Yes,yes, I know - ABX testing is wrong because it reveals the hallucinating Audiophool quickly and embarassingly,etc,etc. A much more scientific method is listening in your own living room for months with no one else around to hear these dramatic changes. Thats all the proof needed. And of course, lets not forget our Shakti Stones, green markers and $10K power cords to really liven things up. Make sure to have a few drinks to really sharpen the senses also. Me, I'm just plain deaf and dumb. I'll squander my hard earned $ on useless junk like better drivers and more advanced electronics,etc. Radio Shack or Home Depot has all the wire I'll ever need.
Cheers,
AJ😉
Hi all,
cables do have an effect on the ability of an amplifier to drive a load. The cable is effectively another load in both series and in parallel with your intended load (speaker and/or crossover).
It is possible that the amplifier/cable effect may result in a change in the sound coming from the transducer.
cables do have an effect on the ability of an amplifier to drive a load. The cable is effectively another load in both series and in parallel with your intended load (speaker and/or crossover).
It is possible that the amplifier/cable effect may result in a change in the sound coming from the transducer.
Hi Andrew.
Thanks for that revelation
. I thought that if my cables were 1000ft long they would still sound the same. Thanks for the info. I'm s-u-r-e thats what most of these audio"philes" were implying. That -
I'll just finish with a small excerpt from someone vastly less knowledgeable than all of you experts (remember, I'm deaf/dumb - no expert). His name is Paul Barton. I won't bother to pull up SL's (another much less informed individual) quotes on this since I quote him so often. Here you go, a interview in Soundstage magazine:
"Finally, and perhaps most controversially, Barton talks about the supposed break-in effect of components that has become so popular in audio today. Break-in refers to running components for a long time (sometimes hundreds of hours) to the point where their components "settle" into their proper operating mode. Barton doesn’t doubt that some components do change subtly, but he thinks that the major improvements people think they’re hearing aren’t in the components at all. Barton doesn’t doubt that people are hearing these changes, but thinks that what they’re hearing is actually brain break-in.
Barton has examined his own speakers to test this. He has taken a Stratus Gold loudspeaker, built and measured some ten years ago, and re-measured it today. The deviation is slight, perhaps 1/4dB at most. Although that deviation can possibly be heard, it is certainly not a huge difference that one may attest to hearing. Instead, Barton surmises that the difference in sound that people are hearing over time is conditioning of the brain. He cites experiments done with sight that indicate the brain can accommodate for enormous changes fairly quickly and certainly within the hundreds of hours that audiophiles claim changes occur in. Could this apply to hearing, too? Barton thinks that more often than not, what happens is that the changes in perceived sound that are attributed to component break-in are simply the brain becoming accustomed to the sound. He warns listeners not to fool themselves."
I think the last part speaks for itself. I'm sure most of you have never even heard of the NRC, Dr. Toole,etc. No need really. Enjoy your delusions if it makes you enjoy your music more. Thats what it's all about.
Cheers,
AJ😉
Thanks for that revelation
. I would never have known that
. I thought that if my cables were 1000ft long they would still sound the same. Thanks for the info. I'm s-u-r-e thats what most of these audio"philes" were implying. That -
- yes, thats it! "Possible". "May". I must just not have noticed.
I'll just finish with a small excerpt from someone vastly less knowledgeable than all of you experts (remember, I'm deaf/dumb - no expert). His name is Paul Barton. I won't bother to pull up SL's (another much less informed individual) quotes on this since I quote him so often. Here you go, a interview in Soundstage magazine:
"Finally, and perhaps most controversially, Barton talks about the supposed break-in effect of components that has become so popular in audio today. Break-in refers to running components for a long time (sometimes hundreds of hours) to the point where their components "settle" into their proper operating mode. Barton doesn’t doubt that some components do change subtly, but he thinks that the major improvements people think they’re hearing aren’t in the components at all. Barton doesn’t doubt that people are hearing these changes, but thinks that what they’re hearing is actually brain break-in.
Barton has examined his own speakers to test this. He has taken a Stratus Gold loudspeaker, built and measured some ten years ago, and re-measured it today. The deviation is slight, perhaps 1/4dB at most. Although that deviation can possibly be heard, it is certainly not a huge difference that one may attest to hearing. Instead, Barton surmises that the difference in sound that people are hearing over time is conditioning of the brain. He cites experiments done with sight that indicate the brain can accommodate for enormous changes fairly quickly and certainly within the hundreds of hours that audiophiles claim changes occur in. Could this apply to hearing, too? Barton thinks that more often than not, what happens is that the changes in perceived sound that are attributed to component break-in are simply the brain becoming accustomed to the sound. He warns listeners not to fool themselves."
I think the last part speaks for itself. I'm sure most of you have never even heard of the NRC, Dr. Toole,etc. No need really. Enjoy your delusions if it makes you enjoy your music more. Thats what it's all about.
Cheers,
AJ😉
I have been listening for hours, i put the cheap cables back on now and it still sounds the same to me. Only difference in cables so far have been the Interconnects. That i could tell the difference immediately.
Re: Re: Re: Does it burn? Yes, it does.
do you glue your wires to your speakers, box walls, speaker baskest, etc to make sure that the vibrations inside the box don't cause the cables to sway in the wind? How about the speaker leads themselves.... they are always in motion woven or not...
I can assure you that you don't... and that your "mirco-voids" are always present
I would put $1000 on that "change" you hear is simply you WANTING to hear the change coupled with you getting used to the speaker
janneman said:
do you glue your wires to your speakers, box walls, speaker baskest, etc to make sure that the vibrations inside the box don't cause the cables to sway in the wind? How about the speaker leads themselves.... they are always in motion woven or not...
I can assure you that you don't... and that your "mirco-voids" are always present
I would put $1000 on that "change" you hear is simply you WANTING to hear the change coupled with you getting used to the speaker
Audiophilenoob said:
Proof I can't, only my ears.
I've experienced that several times.
Build an interconnect with cat5 cable (stripped, 3~4 wires per cable), and you'll notice it only starts to sound decent after a couple of days.
On some (commercial) speaker cables I've noticed that too.
Believe those who want, laugh the non-believers.
I'm not in the mood to discuss cables.
I already gave to that peditory.
PS: I don't think anyone can give an explanation for this phenomenon, but it's easy to try it for yourself.
Audiophilenoob said:
If you don't know Jan, let me warn you that it seems he is inspired today.😀
What comes after that may evolve UFOs.
carlosfm said:
huh? 😕
I simply meant do you let your leads "vibrate" or do you glue them to the basket ? I mean any movement of the wire would "destroy" integrity right? I guess if you staples and glued it all to the enclosure walls and had no slack in the line anywhere you might cut down on this... but it would still vibrate if the walls flexed...
then all you would need to worry about are those pesky forever moving speaker leads 😀
i think there is a simple test that would solve the issue.
get yourself two sets of the same virgin cables. listen to one, then the other to make sure they sound the same. let one set burn in for days and days, listening and appreciating the improvement 😉. then put in the other set that is still virgin and listen.
is there a change?
get yourself two sets of the same virgin cables. listen to one, then the other to make sure they sound the same. let one set burn in for days and days, listening and appreciating the improvement 😉. then put in the other set that is still virgin and listen.
is there a change?
Noob, what Carlos is telling you is that Jan is pulling your leg. It apparently came off in his hand.
OMG hahahaha 😀 😎 I thought he was serious . I was actually thinking to myself . " how sad, this guy has such intelligent posts everywhere and now this 🙁 "
On a serious note though, i STILL cant hear a diff from the $1 per foot wire and the 3.95 for 25 foot wire. Both 14 gauge. I will have the Cat 5e ready tommorow. I better hear something or i am going to UHF/Hi-Fi+ magazine and pull a Rick James on someone there. 😉
On a serious note though, i STILL cant hear a diff from the $1 per foot wire and the 3.95 for 25 foot wire. Both 14 gauge. I will have the Cat 5e ready tommorow. I better hear something or i am going to UHF/Hi-Fi+ magazine and pull a Rick James on someone there. 😉
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