I am sorry. I am not sure whare the offer to mod somthing came from, was it in the SS15 thread ? Andy
tb46; Ahh-now I see. You had me going, that post was not directed to me. I would ask him to help with a "mod" but I dont know how much it woud help and dont what to push it....but if the big box can be made smaller and the small box can be bigger than maybe a medium box would be helpfull? Andy
looks like several posts have happened while I was installing a couple hs12 tops and a single ss15 sub in a gymnasium today.
I had reasonable bass at moderate listening level across the room (120x100) and my volt meter was occasionally seeing 6 volts... (insert big smile here)
No need to make the big box smaller, or the small box bigger. Each one is good at what it does.
The only reason I mention using the kappa15's is the obvious... you already have them. If you didn't have them, I'd suggest a horn loaded 12, like my hs12 tops.
You're overthinking this at this point -- time to start making saw dust.
And yes, the dcx2496, with 6 outputs will allow you to biamp your tops, run a sub channel, and still have outputs to spare. I either use a dcx2496, or run crown xti amps. The xti has all of the dsp that the dcx2496 has and it's built into the amp.
Hi Don,
For myself I have been working on a HT enclosure, but the horn path is too long for this. This PA model has 425cm total horn length, and a L45 of 75cm, so with the fold of the stadium or the fury box you would have to add some folds. Wood1y has a nice fold w/ measurements that could be adapted (also needs more folds/depth):
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/170749-15-tapped-horn-rcf.html
The layout of jbell's Stadium horn is so efficient, that I doubt, that this box can be squeezed into the same external size, even if the net internal volume is about the same. Anyhow, from my HT work I arrived at the fold I'm attaching. It's modified for the horn's path length, but not the sectional areas, nor the mouth size. (In other words it needs much more work, you've been there.) For PA use people are probably not interested in tuning out peaks, so there could be one more loop (or wiggle?) through the now empty area.
I have always liked your LAB12 fold (that may be the way to go), and TD's DTS-20 with or without the bifurcation.
Well, not much, but a start.
Regards,
For myself I have been working on a HT enclosure, but the horn path is too long for this. This PA model has 425cm total horn length, and a L45 of 75cm, so with the fold of the stadium or the fury box you would have to add some folds. Wood1y has a nice fold w/ measurements that could be adapted (also needs more folds/depth):
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/170749-15-tapped-horn-rcf.html
The layout of jbell's Stadium horn is so efficient, that I doubt, that this box can be squeezed into the same external size, even if the net internal volume is about the same. Anyhow, from my HT work I arrived at the fold I'm attaching. It's modified for the horn's path length, but not the sectional areas, nor the mouth size. (In other words it needs much more work, you've been there.) For PA use people are probably not interested in tuning out peaks, so there could be one more loop (or wiggle?) through the now empty area.
I have always liked your LAB12 fold (that may be the way to go), and TD's DTS-20 with or without the bifurcation.
Well, not much, but a start.
Regards,
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Regarding Jbell's statment that hornflares does not work, I agree, the thing is that on the THAM15 mkII proposal (currently being built) the flare is a result of an internal refelctor, and I thought it look good enough to leave it there.
Seeing how the unintentional flare does not add or withdraw anything substantial from the sum preformance, I simply left it in place, not adding anything to recreate the originals S4 (mouth area).
One could argue as to if the MKII's being an improvement over the origninal THAM15 at all, true, there is nothing conclusive enough to show that on paper, the only way to find out is as ususal to simply build it, and messure, and compare, and then reveal the results.
However I'm pretty sure it will not be a noticable step back in preformance, if in doubt fall back on the original, it has proven to be a good preformer both in professional, and home surroundings.
That is if you feel it's intresting enough, If so I would like to refer to this thread for further infomation :
15" Tapped Horns Reprise - Speakerplans.com Forums - Page 1
It' aslo shows the results when loaded with a cheaper driver then the specified B&C 15TBX100.
Seeing how the unintentional flare does not add or withdraw anything substantial from the sum preformance, I simply left it in place, not adding anything to recreate the originals S4 (mouth area).
One could argue as to if the MKII's being an improvement over the origninal THAM15 at all, true, there is nothing conclusive enough to show that on paper, the only way to find out is as ususal to simply build it, and messure, and compare, and then reveal the results.
However I'm pretty sure it will not be a noticable step back in preformance, if in doubt fall back on the original, it has proven to be a good preformer both in professional, and home surroundings.
That is if you feel it's intresting enough, If so I would like to refer to this thread for further infomation :
15" Tapped Horns Reprise - Speakerplans.com Forums - Page 1
It' aslo shows the results when loaded with a cheaper driver then the specified B&C 15TBX100.
I have no issues with a TH-mini clone, THAM-115, or any of the other designs with the speaker toward the 'bottom' of the cabinet. In fact I took martinson's design, and stretched it into this: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/127908-jbells-set-four-tapped-horns-23.html#post2148260
What I have found through MANY different designs, is that multiple parallel surfaces, and multiple path lengths that are the same distance (like my 2' cube) seem to accentuate the peaks/valleys of a tapped horn. Oblique angles and multiple different lengths of pathway seem to smooth the peaks/valleys. One of the things sometimes overlooked in TH folding is the angled baffles, etc... and how they affect the overall tuning/sound of the cabinet. My 2x2x4 cabinet in the above link was almost a complete disaster due to all of the 24" and 48" long paths, and all of the parallel surfaces. A shallow reflector, and a 45 degree reflector saved it.
This is the reason I like my single sheet design so much. Try and find 2 paths that are the same distance, and try to find parallel walls... And it accomplishes it without a bunch of added reflectors. Now there is (my opinion) a place for a parallel reflecting surface, and depending on dimensions, it belongs in different places. A theory (not mine) is that it is beneficial to break up the wave that is heading back down the horn path somewhat. In my single sheet design it's in the upper back corner. In scotts furysub it's in the upper front. In my big cabinet (stadium horn) well, there are no reflectors, but I would assume the upper back serves this purpose. The stadium horn has a slight dip in the 80hz area that a carefully tuned reflector could remove I'm sure.
The reason I post all of this? Hornresp gets you close, but then you have to tune from there. Driver middle of cabinet, or bottom, or somewhere else... You have to be willing to tune.
What I have found through MANY different designs, is that multiple parallel surfaces, and multiple path lengths that are the same distance (like my 2' cube) seem to accentuate the peaks/valleys of a tapped horn. Oblique angles and multiple different lengths of pathway seem to smooth the peaks/valleys. One of the things sometimes overlooked in TH folding is the angled baffles, etc... and how they affect the overall tuning/sound of the cabinet. My 2x2x4 cabinet in the above link was almost a complete disaster due to all of the 24" and 48" long paths, and all of the parallel surfaces. A shallow reflector, and a 45 degree reflector saved it.
This is the reason I like my single sheet design so much. Try and find 2 paths that are the same distance, and try to find parallel walls... And it accomplishes it without a bunch of added reflectors. Now there is (my opinion) a place for a parallel reflecting surface, and depending on dimensions, it belongs in different places. A theory (not mine) is that it is beneficial to break up the wave that is heading back down the horn path somewhat. In my single sheet design it's in the upper back corner. In scotts furysub it's in the upper front. In my big cabinet (stadium horn) well, there are no reflectors, but I would assume the upper back serves this purpose. The stadium horn has a slight dip in the 80hz area that a carefully tuned reflector could remove I'm sure.
The reason I post all of this? Hornresp gets you close, but then you have to tune from there. Driver middle of cabinet, or bottom, or somewhere else... You have to be willing to tune.
The more I learn, the more I don't know either.... I kinda wish the mods could sticky your last post, it's very true.
The big box (stadiumhorn) was the real start of my learning curve, after being lead down the garden path so to speak on a published FLH design that didn't live up. You can see -- I'm still learning.
The only thing I can do to help you out, is to hopefully get you to a place where you are comfortable in punching in the numbers you see in some of these threads into hornresp, and then having the faith that the numbers you see -- will actually happen. Once you get there, line up a few different tried and true designs that you can find on this forum, or others -- plug them into hornresp and see how they compare apples to apples. Once you find the apple that suits you best -- go with it. I really don't think you want to risk this to an untried design, that may or may not work.
Here's a short list of designs that I think are worth your time to at least investigate what makes them tick:
stadium horn (jbell) Big, efficient and low, but not loudest.
furysub (screamersusa) great tone, loud, good all around box. My brother has 4 of them.
singlesheet (jbell) low cost, simple, lightweight. Not quite a furysub in tone or low, but just as loud.
THAM15 (martinson) Good general purpose sub, I've built one and tested, was my inspiration for at least a couple designs of mine. (2' cube and 2x2x4)
Mini clone (flipc) great small TH. it's claim to fame is size, size, size.
oliver (tb46) has drawn up several designs worth looking into, and other forums have worthwhile designs.
Once you get done reading, and punching some numbers into hornresp, you'll start to get comfortable,and you can pick the design you like the best. Since you are dedicated to eminence, I think you'll end up coming back to a 3015lf and either the furysub or the singlesheet design. You can't go wrong with either one. The furysub will go lower than the singlesheet and may be the ultimate 'one box does all' box that you are looking for. A caution, it's not a super easy build, but it's not extremely tough either. Scott literally gave blood sweat and tears over that design.
so... go make yourself comfortable with hornresp, learn, and then the most important part. do. As lilmike says: at some point you gotta stop pushing pixels, and make some dust.
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Diyaudio
Hi 4pyros,
It's a lot of fun learning about these modelling programs. Without Hornresp and AkAbak I would not even try to work on something like a tapped horn. Here are some links:
Lilmike's tutorial on the AVS forum may be helpful:
Simple Tapped Horn Tutorial using Hornresp - AVS Forum
Once you get comfortable with Hornresp you can use the Export feature to get an AkAbak script, and you are on your way.....
And soho54 has a nice intro to AkAbak:
AkAbak for Dummies
- AVS Forum
And I'll attach Cordraconis's AkAbak post from the Collaborative thread.
Regards,
Hi 4pyros,
It's a lot of fun learning about these modelling programs. Without Hornresp and AkAbak I would not even try to work on something like a tapped horn. Here are some links:
Lilmike's tutorial on the AVS forum may be helpful:
Simple Tapped Horn Tutorial using Hornresp - AVS Forum
Once you get comfortable with Hornresp you can use the Export feature to get an AkAbak script, and you are on your way.....
And soho54 has a nice intro to AkAbak:
AkAbak for Dummies
- AVS ForumAnd I'll attach Cordraconis's AkAbak post from the Collaborative thread.
Regards,
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Jim; Thanks for your words of encouragement.
You are right, I will most likely go with a design that is tryed and tested. Thanks for the list. I have looked at most of them and I will look at the rest, but it would still be nice to play with some new stuff if given the opportunity.
It will be some time yet before I get to make saw dust. I need to finish making all the new pipes and racks before I start a new project. In the mean time I will keep reading and pushing pixels. Thanks Andy
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