Yep. Only in magic full range driver fairy tale land there's a 4" driver that can go down to 80Hz (40Hz in fact as crossovers aren't brick walls) for home theater applications where other manufacturers have to use 6.5" or even a lot more Sd...
I agree that small drivers aren't always ideal, but if used within their limitations, where high volumes are not required, they can work well. I think it depends on the specific application.
I understand that 80hz is the standard in the HT world, but if using multiple subs or a well positioned single sub, one can push the crossover point higher to gain additional power handling.
Robert - while many current HT receivers allow XO frequencies to the LFE channel well above 80Hz and deliver the benefit you describe, I wonder if the resulting mono mixed LFE channel might result in localization artifacts, particularly in larger rooms? - albeit they'd likely be more problematic when the system is used for music only, with no "visual clues"
Definately valid. Simply suggesting Its a compromise one could make if they require more power handling than there small speakers can handle.
The ideal arrangement would be to use a pair of subs, crossed higher, to left and right channels to relieve any 4" driver of the output requirement at lower frequencies. A lot depends on output level, room size and whether we're going for full THX certification.
When HT receivers are involved most are still somewhat limited in their ability to internally bi-amp any of the main channels - but those with line outputs for the surrounds allow the option of outboard XO and active bi-amping that substantially increase the flexibility of using "smallish" FR drivers and woofers for any of the front row, and the mono LFE channel.
There are quite a few models that allow assignment of unused front surround channels for passive bi-amping of front L&R, and a smaller number with facility for digital XO and active bi-amping of those channels. My Onkyo has that feature, of which I've availed myself more than once in playing with FASTs . Too bad this option doesn't include the center channel.
There are quite a few models that allow assignment of unused front surround channels for passive bi-amping of front L&R, and a smaller number with facility for digital XO and active bi-amping of those channels. My Onkyo has that feature, of which I've availed myself more than once in playing with FASTs . Too bad this option doesn't include the center channel.
Based on my personal experience, I wouldn't use a 4 inch driver below about 300HZ, with an active 4 pole crossover, if it was part of a stereo system in my fairly normal sized living room. I tried taking some 3.5 inch drivers down to 150HZ (4th order active crossover) , and it didn't have the SPL output it needed. I learned a lesson the hard way. Two 6.5 inch or 8 inch drivers per side, in closed boxes, could be taken down to 80HZ with 4th order active crossovers, but I wouldn't recommend less than that for 80HZ, if the system will be used in a "normal sized" living room. Above 500HZ, going to a small diameter driver (such as a 3 inch) gives an off axis response that is closer to what the tweeter will do when it kicks in, so the "room sound" (including all room reflections) will be nicer to listen to.
Bob- FWIW, I think we're describing much the same approach -perhaps differing on slopes and exact XO points to suit particular system goals - i.e. SPL, room size, yada yada
I have Eikonas in VTL. Have recently crossed them over at 125Hz with 4 HiVi M12 woofers in U frame and removed back from VTL so they are open baffle as well. Works very well
I agree with Bob.
I use a 12" crossed at 120hz, with mid bass boost also.
But I'm a bass head also.
I use a 12" crossed at 120hz, with mid bass boost also.
But I'm a bass head also.
I'm intrigued. Given the baffle width of the VTLs I would have thought output from the Eikonas would start to drop off below 500Hz. Are you using EQ?
No EQ as yet, still work in progress. Slight dip around 250Hz. Response perhaps mitigated by 70mm depth of original cabinet and that I have them right next to the U frame. Also I listen near field.......cuz it's a small room!
Also Colin they are the original Eikonas I bought from you a couple of years ago if that makes any difference, I think they have slightly more bottom end?
The Eikona 1 had a slightly higher Qts but not enough to effect it in the chosen application. I'll have to do some OB experiments some time.
I'll second the Chp70. This is great driver, very mellow and not shrilly at all, with a good amount of bass.
Here's the response of the Gradient AX 8 measured by a German online magazine. Very low variance between 0° and 15° which gives you a very consistent response over 30° which is outstanding for any full range driver. And if you're 50+ the huge dip at about 12kHz doesn't have any detrimental effect anymore 😉
Source https://www.lautsprecherbau.de
Waiting for one of these to arrive. Can't believe the HF is really that good.
...and it isn't that good. Someone obviously confused 5° and 15° 🙂 This is what the driver looks like in a very bad test box laying on the floor.
Frequency variance around 0° isn't bad and on par with something like the Seas FA22RCZ. Huge hole between 11 and 16kHz though.
Attachments
Hi All,
As the original poster, I wanted to thank everyone who posted. Appreciate the wealth of information presented by all the experts.
A final decision has been made.
This morning I ordered 5 Jordan Eikona drivers. I made my decision based on my perception that the Jordan drivers are robust (which is important for an HT application) and the best sounding of the reasonably priced medium sized full ranger drivers.
Thanks again.
As the original poster, I wanted to thank everyone who posted. Appreciate the wealth of information presented by all the experts.
A final decision has been made.
This morning I ordered 5 Jordan Eikona drivers. I made my decision based on my perception that the Jordan drivers are robust (which is important for an HT application) and the best sounding of the reasonably priced medium sized full ranger drivers.
Thanks again.
Jim,
I've used Jordan JX92S drivers for nearly 10 years as my 5.1 home theater set-up. My configuration is my 'Crossing over Jordan' configuration in MLTLs for the front left and right speakers and the bookshelf version (9 liters) for the rears. The tweeter is the Aurum Cantus G2si. Details in the DIYAudio forums for my designs if you search.
The Eikona drivers will be very nice for your project.
Jim
I've used Jordan JX92S drivers for nearly 10 years as my 5.1 home theater set-up. My configuration is my 'Crossing over Jordan' configuration in MLTLs for the front left and right speakers and the bookshelf version (9 liters) for the rears. The tweeter is the Aurum Cantus G2si. Details in the DIYAudio forums for my designs if you search.
The Eikona drivers will be very nice for your project.
Jim
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