With fullrangers, a lot depends on the amplifier, too. Most do not give their best with solid state, low DF amps. Try it with some tube amp, or some higher output impedance amp. (Pass F2 or similar).
Well I think the Redback/Altronics driver is a lot more expressive and vivid in the midrange.There is a hint of the Goodmans Axiom 80 in their midrange.The SB has better bass for sure but I can't hear much appeal in the midrange.I put my vintage Alnico Fostex FE103 in the same box and that sounds a lot better to me.Midrange on them is pretty nice if a bit lacking in dynamics.
I will give the SB another try on the weekend. in a different room.This time with my Almarro valve amp.
That size will sound gorgeous .You will be able to follow the bass right down to where it concludes.
Can you give me the notch filter values ? thanks , also your enclosure volume is the perfect size for a sealed box .
I had mine for about 8 months and have never been conscious or aware of beaming .
SB20 FRPC are a little bit too hot on axis if you don't do any filtering, but it sounds perfect 15 to 20 degrees of axis. In smaller room (15 m2) I liked it more on axis because it had more bass....in bigger room (40 m2) it sounded lighter and balance was better of axis...
It can't cope with the very best tweeters but it has really nice and extended sound, Maybe the best fullranger which I heard and I'm not really fan of most of fullrangers, especially not of those too small...
Absolutely nothing comes close for price of 50 euros/bucks...
My plan is to make 2.5 way BR tower of approx 80 liters with two of SB20FRPCs and maybe Monacor DT300 in waveguide for real 94dBWm 4 ohm speaker...
It can't cope with the very best tweeters but it has really nice and extended sound, Maybe the best fullranger which I heard and I'm not really fan of most of fullrangers, especially not of those too small...
Absolutely nothing comes close for price of 50 euros/bucks...
My plan is to make 2.5 way BR tower of approx 80 liters with two of SB20FRPCs and maybe Monacor DT300 in waveguide for real 94dBWm 4 ohm speaker...
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As with most FR drivers, these have a rising response. Combined with the baffle step, yes, that would make them sound far from optimal.
If you measure and add a proper baffle step compensation to them, I'm sure you will like them a lot better.
Adding baffle step and /or notch filters/zoebels networks etc to them sort of defeats the purpose.You might as well just make a multi way using drivers better suited to specific frequency range.
I understand the appeal of wide range type drivers but suspect the good aspects of their sound has very little to do with their wide/full range and much more to do with the type of construction of the drivers including things like using highish efficiency ,short excursion,light paper cones ,lowish power handling , low moving mass and alnico magnets.
I have some circa 1965 Aurex Toshiba SS 30 speakers that are three ways that use those sorts of drivers.They have a similar type of sound to the best full range drivers I have heard except they are better.Much better.They go lower because they use a 9 inch woofer and passive radiator,a dedicated 4 inch midrange and the treble is better because they use a small bullet tweeter rather than a cone or wizzer.Incredible sounding speakers really.
I understand the appeal of wide range type drivers but suspect the good aspects of their sound has very little to do with their wide/full range and much more to do with the type of construction of the drivers including things like using highish efficiency ,short excursion,light paper cones ,lowish power handling , low moving mass and alnico magnets.
I have some circa 1965 Aurex Toshiba SS 30 speakers that are three ways that use those sorts of drivers.They have a similar type of sound to the best full range drivers I have heard except they are better.Much better.They go lower because they use a 9 inch woofer and passive radiator,a dedicated 4 inch midrange and the treble is better because they use a small bullet tweeter rather than a cone or wizzer.Incredible sounding speakers really.
Sorry to be blunt but I think this is the wrong thread for you.
Here we are discussing the possible uses of a specific full range driver.
Not full range vs multi way.
If you insist on talking about your topics maybe start a new thread. Who knows, it may attract even more interest.
Here we are discussing the possible uses of a specific full range driver.
Not full range vs multi way.
If you insist on talking about your topics maybe start a new thread. Who knows, it may attract even more interest.
This thread is what motivated me to waste money and time on those specific drivers.Within that context I think a dissenting opinion might add some balance to the discussion and might make others more cautious before doing the same thing.
No it definitely doesn't, the sound from a 8 inch full range will still be completely different.
Things like directivity as well as distortion characteristics are very different compared to a multi-way system.
Some people enjoy that sound and there is nothing wrong with that.
You can't blame other people for wasting your money.
You're still responsible for your own actions.
Besides, I have seen distortion measurements of these woofers, and they perform extremely well.
Especially for their price.
If you don't like them full range, there is nothing stopping you from using them as a woofer in a multi-way system.
I suspect the problem is that in an attempt to get bass extension they have allowed for too much excursion .Which is not typical of the breed and means the wizzer cone is moving a lot .Which probably accounts for the dirty/resonant sort of sound.I guess if you limited excursion by modifying the suspension or cutting off the bass below say 70 hz it could sound better.
Doppler distortion is rarely a limiting factor, it would also definitely show up in the distortion measurements.
The SB are relatively high-efficient, at 1 or 2mm excursion you're already well with proper listening levels.
A whizzer cone is also only responsible for the top-end, we are talking 8kHz and up.
That is most definitely not going to ruin the entire experience, but changing a bit of nuance at most.
Reading from the other speakers you like that are much more vintage, I personally think that you are either not used to the transparency that lower distortion gives or you just simply don't like that sound.
Which is totally fine in either case!
But it can sound different that's for sure.
Assuming that freq resp of both are the same as well (which they probably aren't)
The SB are relatively high-efficient, at 1 or 2mm excursion you're already well with proper listening levels.
A whizzer cone is also only responsible for the top-end, we are talking 8kHz and up.
That is most definitely not going to ruin the entire experience, but changing a bit of nuance at most.
Reading from the other speakers you like that are much more vintage, I personally think that you are either not used to the transparency that lower distortion gives or you just simply don't like that sound.
Which is totally fine in either case!
But it can sound different that's for sure.
Assuming that freq resp of both are the same as well (which they probably aren't)
Cone breakup then.There are plenty of two ways with that too of course but it usually less obvious because it is at least partially attenuated by the crossover.
Yes , using the Sb with a crossover and a tweeter is a serious way to reduce the upper range brightness ,and will be my next project .
@jtgofish
only to be sure:
did you experiment with the box?
Balance between bass and mids can be influenced by more or less damping and lower tuning of the reflex port.
did you ever try a current driven amplifier?
its the holy grail for fullrange drivers
for my part I always treat the paper cone with metal foils what adds resolution
here a thread i started on it
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/how-to-make-a-loudspeaker-sandwich-cone.402917/
only to be sure:
did you experiment with the box?
Balance between bass and mids can be influenced by more or less damping and lower tuning of the reflex port.
did you ever try a current driven amplifier?
its the holy grail for fullrange drivers
for my part I always treat the paper cone with metal foils what adds resolution
here a thread i started on it
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/how-to-make-a-loudspeaker-sandwich-cone.402917/