I think he already said he had a great system, I'm not about to waste my time looking for a quote
I'M SORRY BUT I HAVE THE RIGHT TO PRESENT MY OPINION SO DON'T GET UPSET BECAUSE I DO SO
Now I finally understand!.
You see ?. This is the exact psychological profile of those saying audio caps are marketing .
Beware .Some of those guys don't even listen to music or they just have a small mono old radio.
Such people will never ever agree that audio caps do any better because such argument will fight against their small radio and they will feel miserable by not sitting in front of actual real music !.
Now I feel so SO SO SO SO
stupid ! because I try to explain those things to those people because they will attack and not agree with the truth even If they know is true !.Is about their small radios or some are listening to their TVs or no music at all . I know I know many old electro engineers and they have a small old radio or a TV that is playing footbal or news ....
I'M SORRY BUT I HAVE THE RIGHT TO PRESENT MY OPINION SO DON'T GET UPSET BECAUSE I DO SO
This is the reality so please don't get upset ...I know many many old electro engineers ..sorry.
They have almost nothing to do with music
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Has your original question been discussed enough?
If so, why not start a new thread in The Lounge or somewhere to continue enjoying unhealthy debate about capacitor types? It is really a different topic.
Or try the John Curl thread (John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part III) which is misnamed now as it is a general place to discuss all audio theory among people who may provide more fruitful discussion.
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I'M SORRY BUT I HAVE THE RIGHT TO PRESENT MY OPINION SO DON'T GET UPSET BECAUSE I DO SO
Now I finally understand!.
You see ?. This is the exact psychological profile of those saying audio caps are marketing .
Beware .Some of those guys don't even listen to music or they just have a small mono old radio.
Such people will never ever agree that audio caps do any better because such argument will fight against their small radio and they will feel miserable by not sitting in front of actual real music !.
Now I feel so SO SO SO SO
Is about their small radios or some are listening to their TVs or no music at all . I know I know many old electro engineers and they have a small old radio or a TV that is playing footbal or news ....
I'M SORRY BUT I HAVE THE RIGHT TO PRESENT MY OPINION SO DON'T GET UPSET BECAUSE I DO SO
This is the reality so please don't get upset ...I know many many old electro engineers ..sorry.
They have almost nothing to do with music
Somebody said above something like the more a guy sinks in a self made hole, because of his utter incompetence and poor reasoning, the crazier his answers become.
I have to agree, we are witnessing a nervous breakdown now going in full swing.
robert2017,
Maybe you are referring to characterization in hugely incomplete parameter spaces that along with multiple consequence relations, preposterous idealization and simplification, painfully unspecific generality, notorious opaqueness and dearth of content plagues all symbolic formal systems.
Although not formulated clearly, I do sympathize with your thoughts pointing toward a deeper dimension. It is better to avoid the popular textbooks parroting the standard opinion learned through rote memorization.
Maybe you are referring to characterization in hugely incomplete parameter spaces that along with multiple consequence relations, preposterous idealization and simplification, painfully unspecific generality, notorious opaqueness and dearth of content plagues all symbolic formal systems.
Although not formulated clearly, I do sympathize with your thoughts pointing toward a deeper dimension. It is better to avoid the popular textbooks parroting the standard opinion learned through rote memorization.
the truth is hard to swallow 🙄 I know Is right under your nose (is your small radio that is having a small mono speaker) of those who say all audio caps are marketing are those who have a small radio or they listen to music 10 minutes a day in their car or their TV s because movies also have a little music in them so is far from enough for those guys that will always disagree against any audio cap.
This is the reality so please don't get upset ...I know many many old electro engineers ..sorry.
They have almost nothing to do with music. They just repair broken circuits and they prefer watching sports or doing talks over music
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Who is getting upset here? Could you point us to the post where one of us forbids you from freely expressing your opinion?robert2017 said:
Some of which guys?
I asked you to present some mathematics (always the best sort of explanation for scientific matters) but we are still waiting.
We used to have a guy from Canada who wrote meaningless poetry like that.N101N said:
Do you always throw a tantrum when someone disagrees with an opinion you have expressed?robert2017 said:
Just for the record, could you confirm that you have no commercial interest in audio electronics? I ask because your behaviour is indicative of someone whose livelihood may be at stake.
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Hi robert2017,
Many here among us have not only designed commercial products, some even designed the transistors and ICs we use today. That collective "we" is open to learning or discover things that extend our knowledge in this topic. That "we" have invested a great deal of time both in test equipment, but time on the bench learning through practical application of what was learned about electronics in this way. What you are proposing would require that thousands of hours on the benches didn't happen. Impossible of course!
The reason you are meeting with such resistance is because the rules affecting actual constructed circuits do not support your case. I don't know how old you are (since you raised the topic), or your professional occupation. It does appear that you do not have practical knowledge of building circuits. Your contacts with practicing engineers tells me that you are not one to learn from others skilled in the art either. There is only one way to learn enough about electronics in order to form an accurate opinion on how things actually work. The easiest, quickest and east expensive way to gain the knowledge you need would be to take some courses in university. I was lucky enough to attend an institution that taught us electronics from an atomic level on up, and reinforced those classes with practical labs. If you insist to argue these technical topics, you would do well to become educated in the field. You will also enjoy more satisfaction from your work. Interestingly, I have to wonder whether your participation is academic, a hobby or as a professional career. Each is perfectly valid along as you have educated yourself in the field of study accurately. You might want to start at the most basic levels as there appears to be a misunderstanding of the basic forces at work and the "rules" that describe how they are related to one another.
Best, Chris
Many here among us have not only designed commercial products, some even designed the transistors and ICs we use today. That collective "we" is open to learning or discover things that extend our knowledge in this topic. That "we" have invested a great deal of time both in test equipment, but time on the bench learning through practical application of what was learned about electronics in this way. What you are proposing would require that thousands of hours on the benches didn't happen. Impossible of course!
The reason you are meeting with such resistance is because the rules affecting actual constructed circuits do not support your case. I don't know how old you are (since you raised the topic), or your professional occupation. It does appear that you do not have practical knowledge of building circuits. Your contacts with practicing engineers tells me that you are not one to learn from others skilled in the art either. There is only one way to learn enough about electronics in order to form an accurate opinion on how things actually work. The easiest, quickest and east expensive way to gain the knowledge you need would be to take some courses in university. I was lucky enough to attend an institution that taught us electronics from an atomic level on up, and reinforced those classes with practical labs. If you insist to argue these technical topics, you would do well to become educated in the field. You will also enjoy more satisfaction from your work. Interestingly, I have to wonder whether your participation is academic, a hobby or as a professional career. Each is perfectly valid along as you have educated yourself in the field of study accurately. You might want to start at the most basic levels as there appears to be a misunderstanding of the basic forces at work and the "rules" that describe how they are related to one another.
Best, Chris
I fell asleep for a time and woke to find that, in post #71, JMFahey has answered you better than I could possibly do.
That man knows what he is talking about. I listen to him and learn. As evidenced by your replies, at least you are listening.
From a psychological standpoint this could be considered a very interesting thread. Not only Robert2017's posts, also the way others respond, but...
This is DIY Audio, right? Anyone who might wonder if they can use a capacitor rated at a higher voltage and clicks on this thread might read everything. They'll probably be more confused since so much misinformation, assumptions and pointless rants due to one poster. One poster who got the answer to his question on another site.
I've never posted on this forum before, but have read many informative threads that have greatly helped me in my own diy. This seemed like a place for people who were serious, knowledgeable, experienced and very helpful. This thread has done nothing to change that opinion.
Robert2017 and his ilk are the opposite. The "instant expert" who has some take on audio nobody else could. Robert, Nelson Pass (and Wayne C.) don't use audio capacitors in his designs and he's not young. Go argue this in the Pass Labs section.
Robert2017, according to his profile on another forum, is 40.
Robert, go back to that forum or to one where your looney concepts and ignorance will not confuse those who truly want to expand their understanding of audio electronics.
This is DIY Audio, right? Anyone who might wonder if they can use a capacitor rated at a higher voltage and clicks on this thread might read everything. They'll probably be more confused since so much misinformation, assumptions and pointless rants due to one poster. One poster who got the answer to his question on another site.
I've never posted on this forum before, but have read many informative threads that have greatly helped me in my own diy. This seemed like a place for people who were serious, knowledgeable, experienced and very helpful. This thread has done nothing to change that opinion.
Robert2017 and his ilk are the opposite. The "instant expert" who has some take on audio nobody else could. Robert, Nelson Pass (and Wayne C.) don't use audio capacitors in his designs and he's not young. Go argue this in the Pass Labs section.
Robert2017, according to his profile on another forum, is 40.
Robert, go back to that forum or to one where your looney concepts and ignorance will not confuse those who truly want to expand their understanding of audio electronics.
This is simply just mind blowing how far some are willing to go in order to believe something that is just not real .
I and a some of my friends did participate in many blind tests in which 2 identical amps where used one with audio caps and the other with china small cheap caps .
We made measurements to every cap before installing . There was night and day difference between A and B and I'm speaking about blind tests made with 5 subjects .
On every blind test all 5 subjects where able to distinguish between the A and B it was night and day difference .
Sorry but is getting ridiculous
From a psychological standpoint...........
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Hi Robert,
The test you performed would have had some more value had you and your club tested these capacitors for some characteristic that you could have quoted before installing them. I routinely test new capacitors and ones coming out of equipment for dissipation and value. This gives me a great deal more information than your uncontrolled observations - oops, conclusions.
The problem with group events is that some, not wanting to seem unintelligent or un qualified will typically agree with the most commented or respected individual. So a group test, like the types of listening sessions I have observed, are useless and tend to give a false result with high agreement between members. The same holds true with articles written for audiophiles, this was probably also guided "white papers" (ads in disguise).
Knowing this, I don't lay the blame for mis-information at your feet. You are a victim to all the white papers and fanciful articles written by people without technical training who want to make a name for themselves, and worse, a living doing everyone a dis-service.
Ever get the feeling that it's the world against you? There is a good reason for that. IT is the world against you and people like you. I can only hope that some day you can educate yourself enough to understand this subject from a physics standpoint. When you do, you'll understand why it is so easily dismissed by the educated folks around here.
-Chris
The test you performed would have had some more value had you and your club tested these capacitors for some characteristic that you could have quoted before installing them. I routinely test new capacitors and ones coming out of equipment for dissipation and value. This gives me a great deal more information than your uncontrolled observations - oops, conclusions.
The problem with group events is that some, not wanting to seem unintelligent or un qualified will typically agree with the most commented or respected individual. So a group test, like the types of listening sessions I have observed, are useless and tend to give a false result with high agreement between members. The same holds true with articles written for audiophiles, this was probably also guided "white papers" (ads in disguise).
Knowing this, I don't lay the blame for mis-information at your feet. You are a victim to all the white papers and fanciful articles written by people without technical training who want to make a name for themselves, and worse, a living doing everyone a dis-service.
Ever get the feeling that it's the world against you? There is a good reason for that. IT is the world against you and people like you. I can only hope that some day you can educate yourself enough to understand this subject from a physics standpoint. When you do, you'll understand why it is so easily dismissed by the educated folks around here.
-Chris
What ?. You're getting absurd I already mentioned that I tested all caps before installation and the ESR and V-loss was pretty good in the chinese cheap caps like in most cheap caps that you and your club are loving si much .
And the hearing test was blind and the difference was night and day .
Also an audio cap can be 3 or even 4 times the size of a Jamicon or Teapo or even a Panasonic.
Don't tell me they make those audio caps so big just for marketing reasons
I can only hope that some day you can educate yourself enough to understand this subject from a physics standpoint. When you do, you'll understand why it is so easily dismissed by the educated folks around here.
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Not presuming .
The test was blind made with more people and was night and day difference .
The audio caps were better.
We did not see what amp is A and what amp is B but we always where able to hear
the amp with audio caps a good clean sound
vs
amp with cheap caps a congested tiny without resolution and with nasty high freq
The audio caps used where 2 1000uf black gates , and an equal number of Silmics combined with KZs
The cheap normal caps used in the other amp where all ok regarding specs with good esr and v-loss so there was no defective caps in the test
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Ok, I think that's the first time you've said the audio caps were preferred, previously you only mentioned a difference I think. Often a difference is perceived as better, this is why measurements are important.
the amp with audio caps a good clean strong sound the high freq sounded pleasantly mellow, the mid freq sounded with a fresh vibe ...etc
vs
amp with cheap caps a congested ,tiny, blurred 3 D image without resolution and with nasty high freq sound
vs
amp with cheap caps a congested ,tiny, blurred 3 D image without resolution and with nasty high freq sound
Well I'm convinced...
...convinced Robert2017 writes copy for those junk pieces from China sold on eBay.
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