To the Op... Like I said earlier it makes no difference to me what gear you decide to use but if you want to plug straight into an aux input on hifi some thing like this is cheap and easy : https://www.ehx.com/products/headphone-amp/
Or you could DIY something similar by yourself if you want a project. Or there are some high impedance pre-amp ic's that could be suitable something like: https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDet...7qaqXxcPvty7ykAOg1jdI1yXZlQs1HhRoCXJ8QAvD_BwE
If that one isn't suitable then I've definitely seen something similar that can take unbalanced instrument input maybe bt by "THAT'S"...
Or you could DIY something similar by yourself if you want a project. Or there are some high impedance pre-amp ic's that could be suitable something like: https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDet...7qaqXxcPvty7ykAOg1jdI1yXZlQs1HhRoCXJ8QAvD_BwE
If that one isn't suitable then I've definitely seen something similar that can take unbalanced instrument input maybe bt by "THAT'S"...
Just another of your groundless assumptions randy... stop being so insulting and have a conversation. From what you say here "set levels to suit equipment", I can only guess you mean gain staging?
What would you like to know about it?
Are you being deliberately vague because that's the way it's coming across
To the OP again,
... a few years ago I designed and built a custom mixing desk for a solo artist that had a very complicated looping live show, if I get time later and I can find the schematics I'll tell you what IC's I used for instrument input... You could use those to interface directly with a TPA3116.
BTW I use 3116 for the woofer amps in my studio monitors and they are very good but also helping that is the fact the room has been built specifically for audio and there is also a dual driver sub with an electronic xover with about 12 filters set with sweep tests for the monitoring position..
... a few years ago I designed and built a custom mixing desk for a solo artist that had a very complicated looping live show, if I get time later and I can find the schematics I'll tell you what IC's I used for instrument input... You could use those to interface directly with a TPA3116.
BTW I use 3116 for the woofer amps in my studio monitors and they are very good but also helping that is the fact the room has been built specifically for audio and there is also a dual driver sub with an electronic xover with about 12 filters set with sweep tests for the monitoring position..
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ESP ( Elliott Sound Product) bass amp input stage.
Not a bad choice at all. Opa2134 sound great with bass. Jfet input are great for instruments!
Good choice imho.
It could be nice to include an fx loop at output ( to insert a stompbox compressor). It would give a 'chance' in case amp/loudspeakers are not able to withstand the dynamic.
Not a bad choice at all. Opa2134 sound great with bass. Jfet input are great for instruments!
Good choice imho.
It could be nice to include an fx loop at output ( to insert a stompbox compressor). It would give a 'chance' in case amp/loudspeakers are not able to withstand the dynamic.
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Yes ... it gives some gain control before the 3116 ... although the electro harmonix headphone amp I linked above might be fine and even simpler.
I think the OP is specifically looking for a project rather than simplicity though?
Maybe some direct link to the site could help understand the 'technical' needs for instruments?
https://sound-au.com/instamps.htm
Where is @JMFahey ?! We need you in there...
https://sound-au.com/instamps.htm
Where is @JMFahey ?! We need you in there...
I screen shotted it from an image from google search for bass pre-amps ... can't be that hard to find though ...
UPDATE: I wrote the below before reading all the replies, my bad. Check12, thank you for the input and the schematics and suggestions. If you feel like explaining some of the more philosophical questions below, I would appreciate it....
Like I said there are no rules but there are obvious reasons why professionals do not regularly choose hifi equipment as instrument amplification
ORIGINAL POST:
Check12, that's the thing that is missing - in my opinion - from your side of the conversation: explanation or at least clear statement of those reasons. I have no problem understanding the designs and explanations of Randy, I understand both advantages and flaws.
From your side so far, I see statements of opinions based on authority. This is fine but I'd like to understand the reasons too, this is just how my mind works.
For example, you keep saying "professional amp like Rumble". I'd like to understand what makes it special: I took apart a simple guitar amp from the same brand, there is nothing magical inside. There is a very simple box, a cutout, a driver bolted to the cutout, and a simple solid state amp board.
I am guessing that Rumble is about the same.
Perhaps I'm missing something, it would be good to know. If not, then perhaps "professional amp" at this low end level is nothing "magical", nothing that cannot be put together from components on hand...
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Yes. Here is Rod's article on the linked circuit.
https://sound-au.com/project152-1.htm
https://sound-au.com/project152-2.htm
Thank you Allen! 👍
Yes imho, most instruments amplifier have nothing 'magical' in them, at least for the power amp section ( preamp can be different though).
The difference lie in the driver: guitar drivers is where the sound is 90% ( the other 10% is in the preamp). They exhibit 'issues' which are in fact used to give the sound.
Hifi drivers try ( or should) to lessen this effects...
And they are sized according to the need.
If i talked about the 100w head guitarists i played with it's because for bass you'll often see this 4/1 power ratio ( as well as more drivers in bass cabinets) when seeing bands playing.
There is a reason beyond that: physic tell each time you go down an octave you need 4 times the displacement capability ( x max) or four time the membrane area ( speaker size) for distortion to not go through the roof...
That said, bass amplifier ( as keyboard amp) are the closest to an hifi sound you'll find in instruments familly. They are usually clean sounding.
I talked about tuned or voiced cabinets because this is what happen: an Hartke 4x10" will bring in front your hi mid which will help to cut through the guitar sound for example. This is metal genre so exagerated but you got the idea. It is true for each style/music genre by the way...
Another example could be Korn's bass player sound on first album: it is a heavily filtered di sound ( the fat low end) mixed to the miced piezzo horn of a 4x10" cabinet. It makes that huge midrange hole which gives space to the guitars, voice and drums... and it gives the feeling of something huge...because of fret noises and other high present.
Randy approach is valid. It works for him. Fine, it probably give him a distinct sound and character for reggae and dub. As Check12 said there is no rules...but we know some things are prone to fail in some context.
I like this kind of approach too. But it's not something to start with imho: better focus on playing, technique or musicality than struggle with gear.
When all this is acquired then...why not? If you need a kind of tone everything is good: Lemmy Kilmeister ( RIP) used to play on ( modified) guitar amps with guitar cabinets 4×12" in which he made holes in the drivers... it was part of his sound.
People usually laugh when they see a boss HM2 on my pedal board. Until i activate it.
Yes imho, most instruments amplifier have nothing 'magical' in them, at least for the power amp section ( preamp can be different though).
The difference lie in the driver: guitar drivers is where the sound is 90% ( the other 10% is in the preamp). They exhibit 'issues' which are in fact used to give the sound.
Hifi drivers try ( or should) to lessen this effects...
And they are sized according to the need.
If i talked about the 100w head guitarists i played with it's because for bass you'll often see this 4/1 power ratio ( as well as more drivers in bass cabinets) when seeing bands playing.
There is a reason beyond that: physic tell each time you go down an octave you need 4 times the displacement capability ( x max) or four time the membrane area ( speaker size) for distortion to not go through the roof...
That said, bass amplifier ( as keyboard amp) are the closest to an hifi sound you'll find in instruments familly. They are usually clean sounding.
I talked about tuned or voiced cabinets because this is what happen: an Hartke 4x10" will bring in front your hi mid which will help to cut through the guitar sound for example. This is metal genre so exagerated but you got the idea. It is true for each style/music genre by the way...
Another example could be Korn's bass player sound on first album: it is a heavily filtered di sound ( the fat low end) mixed to the miced piezzo horn of a 4x10" cabinet. It makes that huge midrange hole which gives space to the guitars, voice and drums... and it gives the feeling of something huge...because of fret noises and other high present.
Randy approach is valid. It works for him. Fine, it probably give him a distinct sound and character for reggae and dub. As Check12 said there is no rules...but we know some things are prone to fail in some context.
I like this kind of approach too. But it's not something to start with imho: better focus on playing, technique or musicality than struggle with gear.
When all this is acquired then...why not? If you need a kind of tone everything is good: Lemmy Kilmeister ( RIP) used to play on ( modified) guitar amps with guitar cabinets 4×12" in which he made holes in the drivers... it was part of his sound.
People usually laugh when they see a boss HM2 on my pedal board. Until i activate it.
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You seems to be a person who despise authorities. The first, very important thing you should learn about authorities: authority is always earned! Authority builds on years and years of learning and practicing.
You want to understand the reasons for something - OK, but it is not that easy. My knowledge (4.5 years of Faculty for electronics, 30+ years of professional work in electronic and 40+ years in loudspeakers) is impossible to squeeze in a just few sentences, for you to be able to understand why your approach and reasoning is catastrophically wrong. If it was so easy to understand everything, everybody can become brain surgeon (or rocket scientist) with just asking how, on the appropriate forum!
You don't have a clue about amplifiers - there is a huge difference between hi-fi and guitar amplifiers, in spite of superficial similarity for your laymen eye (both amps contain transistors, capacitors and resistors, aren't they?). It takes years to learn sufficiently about amplifiers.
A professional bass driver has about 10 dB higher sensitivity than hi-fi woofer, so for the same SPL (Sound Pressure Level) it needs 10 times less amp power. Or easier for you to understand: For the same loud sound, bass driver from Fender bass combo needs just 100 W, and hi-fi woofer needs 1000 W (!!!) - which will melt it in a second!
No magic, but pure scientific knowledge of electronic and acoustic (which you don't have).
For now, just accept the knowledge of authorities (and buy a proper bass-combo!). Later, gradually you can learn many things in audio, so one day maybe you can build guitar amplifiers and combos.
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Crocobar I have not kept saying that at all! ... I wish you and randy would stop making up stuff to suit yourself, stick to what's actually been said.
Again your trying to quote something I haven't said, have I even mentioned an amp brand?
What are you actually talking about? ... is "Rumble" an amp brand? ... or are you refering to the "Fender Rumble"?
If so which model? ... there's lots of different one's.
I'm taking it you have tried out some of the actual amps you seem so against?
Stop trying to steer what has been said, if you are determined to use a DI box, mixing desk, set of adapter cables, and a 2.1 satellites + sub system (or something else based on a TPA3116) as a bass practice amp then I already said more than once that's your choice.
Would I advise a beginner who's not interested in electronics and just wants to learn to play to choose that setup over a good quality purpose designed bass practice amp? ..... no.
I'm still not sure if you are specifically wanting to build a project or if you think you are going to get a better sounding bass guitar amplifier by doing it this way?
Please if you going to quote me, make sure it's something that I've actually said ...
Yes I have been making a living from pro-audio since 1987 ... some people are very hard to help.
I think though in Crocobars case he just wants the outcome to be one specific way and only really wants to hear what suits that no matter whether it is the best outcome or not.
Randy I am not sure about ... always needy, demanding and constant insults when they are not appropriate and doesn't want to have a technical conversation even though he claims complete superiority.
He has concluded that I will not be able to converse on his level because I asked for his definition of "live mastering" ... I have never used or heard the term used ever. Mastering in my world is the final step of post production before publication but I am getting old now so I wondered if "live mastering" was maybe a new process that I didn't know about (I'm mainly a guitar tech. now) but it turns out he uses that as a term for gain staging (I think) ..... he never came back to tell.
So is "live mastering" a commonly used term in Australia?
Well, yes and no: the simplest is almost always to buy something. I can certainly buy a rumble without hardship. But some things are fun to do, up to a point. We are at a diy site after all.
So, my original thought that started this thread was something like, "I have some speakers/drivers lying around, I have good experience with premade cheap tpa3116 boards, is there a solid reason why I cannot relatively easily slap something together that will be no worse than entry level consumer system, FOR NOVICE PRACTICE IN A LIVING ROOM?"
Playing stadiums, I feel, are not an immediate concern for us.
My conclusion from this thread so far is: yes I can, given that I properly convert the signal and preferably add compression.
Randy also hit on my second and third interests/priorities: how to record and how not to duplicate equipment. I don't want two amps and two speakers for two guitars if I can help it.
You are probably right, it might have been Sonce who said that. I admit that your and his voices mixed a bit in my head. I apologize if I misunderstood and misquoted.Crocobar I have not kept saying that at all! ... I wish you and randy would stop making up stuff to suit yourself, stick to what's actually been said.
...
That said, please try to understand what I'm trying to get at. "Don't invent things and just buy off the shelf" just is not a helpful answer for me in this context. This is me paraphrasing, I am not quoting you. This is how I understood the main argument in this thread that is in the opposite end of Randy's.
"Buy Rumble" might turn out to be the end result! But before and if I arrive at it, I want to understand the alternatives better.
Ok.
Then why not invest in a 10" dedicated to the task, build a nice looking cabinet and add a diy preamp and amp card?
I don't know if you could compete with a brand's commercial offer though.
A dedicated 10" bass driver could be found easily USSpeakers have some on offer: 100$ and you have a 'standard' sound like a stratocaster, tele or lespaul. A sealed box and you are done.
There is more chance of an happy outcome than using unknown drivers.
Given it will be in a living room it'll be more than enough.
And if you don't want to design a preamp then a Sansamp bass driver ( or Behringer clone) into your amp board and this is it. It works, i've done it.
Then why not invest in a 10" dedicated to the task, build a nice looking cabinet and add a diy preamp and amp card?
I don't know if you could compete with a brand's commercial offer though.
A dedicated 10" bass driver could be found easily USSpeakers have some on offer: 100$ and you have a 'standard' sound like a stratocaster, tele or lespaul. A sealed box and you are done.
There is more chance of an happy outcome than using unknown drivers.
Given it will be in a living room it'll be more than enough.
And if you don't want to design a preamp then a Sansamp bass driver ( or Behringer clone) into your amp board and this is it. It works, i've done it.
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Finally the kind of direct question I was asking for in my first post ... no, no reason that's why I posted suggestions ...
I think it's only you and randy that have over exaggerated to that extent, I don't get the point.Playing stadiums, I feel, are not an immediate concern for us.
You know Crocobar I genuinely think your only going to be happy with advice from randy on that subject and I can see a lot of conflict for anybody else who gets involved, I'm real busy at the moment and I find randy too much hard work to deal with.
But I do wish you and your daughter all the best for your future music endeavours, it's always good to get a young person started in music & I hope whatever you make works out well for you ...
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