@Russellc
300µV is the output spec. of the cartridge.
I did this to lower the MC-gain. If you use R9 = 1K, you´ll have a gain of 64dB instead of 70dB.
This will also add to lower (at least perceived) noise floor.
The reason: My tube pre has a max voltage out of around 14 volt for rated input.
My monoblocks have a sensitivity of around 2 volt for max output (600w/4ohm)
My speakers have a sensitivity of 97dB.
So I needed a little more "playground" on the volume control.
So............. If you´re tired of only being able to turn the volume up to around 9´oClock for very loud output,
this will work for you too. 😉 👍
300µV is the output spec. of the cartridge.
I did this to lower the MC-gain. If you use R9 = 1K, you´ll have a gain of 64dB instead of 70dB.
This will also add to lower (at least perceived) noise floor.
The reason: My tube pre has a max voltage out of around 14 volt for rated input.
My monoblocks have a sensitivity of around 2 volt for max output (600w/4ohm)
My speakers have a sensitivity of 97dB.
So I needed a little more "playground" on the volume control.
So............. If you´re tired of only being able to turn the volume up to around 9´oClock for very loud output,
this will work for you too. 😉 👍
I fired up the really well built (expensive parts) P2 and later the P3 ( currently with the Burson v7 classic opamps ).
Played Santana Abraxas (*)... the sound from the P2 is gorgeous. The congas, the percussion, have rhythm and pace. You can hear the resonance on the skins, the crash cymbals.... the metal of the bells. The guitar is gorgeous... just sings. I meant to play only two songs... played the whole side. Very enjoyable, very good presentation,. Good harmonic sound, meaning that tonally the instruments have body to them.
A very good sound, really good sound.
Then, I plugged in the P3 ( running the balanced output ).
Dang! The music sounds... "faster". I think the rise time in the circuits is faster. The attack of the congas, the percussion is now faster... you can hear the impact now. The treble is not etched, just that you can hear how the drums and cymbals are hit. The guitar too, it sings nicely, but now you can hear the strings better... There is a sharpness in the percussion, the voices come out clearer as if someone had cleared their throat.
Hard to explain, I guess. Someone who compared my P2 with his P3 said that the P2 sounds more laid back, while the P3 is more forward. I would think that the harmonics of the P2, the body of the instruments, now is combined with sharperness....
Imagine.... I often wear the lowest power cheater glasses to work at my big PC monitor. The P2 works, the P3 is like seeing a bit sharper.
OK -my P3 has the Burson V7 Classics today- so it likely sounds different than his.
But, i wouldn't call the P2 laid back... I'd just say that the P3 is much more detailed (at least mine is). Both present a very good soundstage, but the P3 is a bit deeper front to back.
Then, I played the 2nd side of Heart's Greenboat Annie. Again, meant to play only one cut... played the whole thing. The vocal harmonies are very distinct. This is an album with beautiful female voices, very quick drums and lotsa of guitars. Hear how the guitars are plucked and twisted...
The P3 is more dynamic. Its micro dynamics are better.... instruments are clearer. It's macro dynamics are a little bit better than the P2.
Then I played just one cut... Do You Feel Like We Do?... from Frampton Live (I've owned his record since new). Well, half way through the long track I cranked it up. After that, I turned off the stereo. How can you top that?
The P3 is definitely here to stay long term. Now, with my table upgraded and as I'm getting familiar to the new sound... it's gonna be time to restart the op amp rolling.
At one point I though about comparing the SE vs the balanced outputs. Then, reality hit me and I realized that a cigar is a better endeavor.
Fun.
(*) My LP is the 2nd edition released, I bought it new in '74. Still in like new shape, very well cleaned. It turns out they got the L and R channels reversed. In Black Magic Woman the congas are on the left channel... they were supposed to be on the right channel.
Played Santana Abraxas (*)... the sound from the P2 is gorgeous. The congas, the percussion, have rhythm and pace. You can hear the resonance on the skins, the crash cymbals.... the metal of the bells. The guitar is gorgeous... just sings. I meant to play only two songs... played the whole side. Very enjoyable, very good presentation,. Good harmonic sound, meaning that tonally the instruments have body to them.
A very good sound, really good sound.
Then, I plugged in the P3 ( running the balanced output ).
Dang! The music sounds... "faster". I think the rise time in the circuits is faster. The attack of the congas, the percussion is now faster... you can hear the impact now. The treble is not etched, just that you can hear how the drums and cymbals are hit. The guitar too, it sings nicely, but now you can hear the strings better... There is a sharpness in the percussion, the voices come out clearer as if someone had cleared their throat.
Hard to explain, I guess. Someone who compared my P2 with his P3 said that the P2 sounds more laid back, while the P3 is more forward. I would think that the harmonics of the P2, the body of the instruments, now is combined with sharperness....
Imagine.... I often wear the lowest power cheater glasses to work at my big PC monitor. The P2 works, the P3 is like seeing a bit sharper.
OK -my P3 has the Burson V7 Classics today- so it likely sounds different than his.
But, i wouldn't call the P2 laid back... I'd just say that the P3 is much more detailed (at least mine is). Both present a very good soundstage, but the P3 is a bit deeper front to back.
Then, I played the 2nd side of Heart's Greenboat Annie. Again, meant to play only one cut... played the whole thing. The vocal harmonies are very distinct. This is an album with beautiful female voices, very quick drums and lotsa of guitars. Hear how the guitars are plucked and twisted...
The P3 is more dynamic. Its micro dynamics are better.... instruments are clearer. It's macro dynamics are a little bit better than the P2.
Then I played just one cut... Do You Feel Like We Do?... from Frampton Live (I've owned his record since new). Well, half way through the long track I cranked it up. After that, I turned off the stereo. How can you top that?
The P3 is definitely here to stay long term. Now, with my table upgraded and as I'm getting familiar to the new sound... it's gonna be time to restart the op amp rolling.
At one point I though about comparing the SE vs the balanced outputs. Then, reality hit me and I realized that a cigar is a better endeavor.
Fun.
(*) My LP is the 2nd edition released, I bought it new in '74. Still in like new shape, very well cleaned. It turns out they got the L and R channels reversed. In Black Magic Woman the congas are on the left channel... they were supposed to be on the right channel.
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🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
Never gonna happen.
My monoblecks are switchable between 80W Class A or 400W-8ohm/600W-4ohm Class A/B, and sound absolutely awesome, both
on my Maggie´s 3.6R and "Asathor´s".
They´ll be the very last of any of my music system to go...... if ever.
"Dampers" between pre and power, "R9 trick" in Pearl-3 does the trick.
NO problems here 😉
BTW......... It´s time to give the Audio Technica AT33-PTG/II a well earned spring break.
Next up is this little bugger, to see what the Pearl-3 is capable of 👍
Next up is this little bugger, to see what the Pearl-3 is capable of 👍
If your preamp is balanced... you could try bridged F4s into the Maggies.
They are indeed too much power for my 1.7, so I figure they'll do great into the 3.6R.
You could also try the Iron Pre...it sounds like... nothing.
Mostly, a 15V output preamp into a 2V max input amp is a bit of a mistmatch. Mind you, for eons I did that, I still do, as my tube preamps do 20Vrms. But then I can only use a small part of the volume range. Putting a "damper" between preamp and amp seems like dumping power... and running the P3 with less gain also forces the preamp to run with more noise.
IMHO, Ideally, the system should have enough gain to run at full blast... and maybe 3 db more.
Try this.... try that..... There´s a lot, I could try, but why would I??
Except for riaa´s (because it´s fun) and the odd new cartridge once and a while, I´m perfectly satisfied with my system.
I don´t proclaim, that others should do the same. Subjective opinions don´t really matter to me.
After 40-50 years of serching to improve my setup, I´m now homefree. And it stays that way. Period 😉
Suggesting, that my whole system is flawed, just because I advocated for a little less MC gain in the Pearl-3, seems to
me like the devil reading the bible, or you completely misread my comments.
That can only be, if you´re a pussy or lack impulse control on the volume knob.
I ran the same amps on my previous MG12QR...... they absolutely loved it.
Pussy?
Lack impulse control?
I smoked the XA252 SIT, twice. Literally.
Ran into the protection with the XA252 mosfet
The A2 I got will make the 1.7 panels "vibrate"... so do the bridged F4s.
As a matter of fact I got a pair of 12QR too. For those, I find the A5 monos are best. A CJ MF2100 actually drives them very well, but again, there's limits.
In my experience, Maggies have a loudness limit. The bigger the speaker the more they can handle.
Lack impulse control?
I smoked the XA252 SIT, twice. Literally.
Ran into the protection with the XA252 mosfet
The A2 I got will make the 1.7 panels "vibrate"... so do the bridged F4s.
As a matter of fact I got a pair of 12QR too. For those, I find the A5 monos are best. A CJ MF2100 actually drives them very well, but again, there's limits.
In my experience, Maggies have a loudness limit. The bigger the speaker the more they can handle.
Ay..... because you're throwing away gain...
We're in the same boat, maybe my house is bigger or my wife more understanding, I dunno know. I just like to experiment. I measure a life well lived by how many amplifiers you have. And preamps. And DACs... OK, turntable wise, you just need one... so long as it is a Linn LP12, of course. Just mixing and matching... fun.
I'm not saying your system is flawed... just that you have a lot of gain in the system. It's just an... observation...
I mean, you will never have the joys of turning it to 11.
Let me note further... that when you turn it to 11 and are playing Clapton and Freddie King you might actually blow up the midrange.
Sure, the factory won't believe it... but they will pay for all the repairs... because you will be the only one ever to do it.
Not woofer, not tweeter.... nope... midrange. BTW, I still have those speaker and receiver... ;-)
Fully rebuilt to OEM specs..
The Dual table and Stanton 681EE are long gone, but I still have the LP from the 70s.
The R&D guy from ADS called me.... I explained what I was playing... so he went and got the album... called me a couple a days later. He LOVED it.
They paid for the whole thing, and they really dug the song. Awesome.
Not a matter of gain there... a well tuned system that, well, when turned to 11 makes the entire house shake... you FEEL it...
Soundstage? System Gain? Pfftt.. the idea here is to have a well tuned system that well.... Who I'm I kidding? Even Physicists like to crank it UP when we drink lots of beer and don't think about it.. the point here is, as Nigel Tufnel put it, is to go to 11..
"...Well, it's one louder, isn't it? It's not ten. You see, most blokes, you know, will be playing at ten. You're on ten here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you're on ten on your guitar. Where can you go from there? Where?"
Indeed! Yes, IT WAS VERY, VERY LOUD.... listen to the interplay between the guitars and the drums... likely the best version of this song I've ever heard.
So, make your system so it doesn't need any kind of "damper"... Set it up so you can rip it... and watch out with those flimsy 45 watt amps...
Rock Starts At 110 db...
Caveat: I dunno about Euro Techno though...
Sure, the factory won't believe it... but they will pay for all the repairs... because you will be the only one ever to do it.
Not woofer, not tweeter.... nope... midrange. BTW, I still have those speaker and receiver... ;-)
Fully rebuilt to OEM specs..
The Dual table and Stanton 681EE are long gone, but I still have the LP from the 70s.
The R&D guy from ADS called me.... I explained what I was playing... so he went and got the album... called me a couple a days later. He LOVED it.
They paid for the whole thing, and they really dug the song. Awesome.
Not a matter of gain there... a well tuned system that, well, when turned to 11 makes the entire house shake... you FEEL it...
Soundstage? System Gain? Pfftt.. the idea here is to have a well tuned system that well.... Who I'm I kidding? Even Physicists like to crank it UP when we drink lots of beer and don't think about it.. the point here is, as Nigel Tufnel put it, is to go to 11..
"...Well, it's one louder, isn't it? It's not ten. You see, most blokes, you know, will be playing at ten. You're on ten here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you're on ten on your guitar. Where can you go from there? Where?"
Indeed! Yes, IT WAS VERY, VERY LOUD.... listen to the interplay between the guitars and the drums... likely the best version of this song I've ever heard.
So, make your system so it doesn't need any kind of "damper"... Set it up so you can rip it... and watch out with those flimsy 45 watt amps...
Rock Starts At 110 db...
Caveat: I dunno about Euro Techno though...
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Jeezzz..... You really are "high on yourself", aren´t you?? 🤣 🤣
Your ever so hidden "talking down" is pretty annoying.
To be clear..... I´m going on 72..... and got my primary (4 yrs) education and exam papers in Audio/Video in 1979. At that time, the education had come to a crossroad. Digital or Analog. Some of my classmates chose digital, visualizing high future salaries. I chose analog because
that was my passion, and never got near those earnings, my mates later acheived.
Your comments on"never too many amplififiers" etc. is just plain stupid typical american hoarding and has absolutely nothing
to with enjoying music.
Lets just agree to disagree on most of your points above and leave it at that, Your "Besserwisser" attitude doesn´t "ring my bell".
Ohhhh did I forget....... Last wednesday I had one of my friends over for dinner and a listen to my new cartridge,
We ended up sharing 4 bottles of redwine and had a really enjoyable evening.
Proof: When I woke up the next morning, the volume knob was parked at max = 5PM in your language.
So your comment on "never enjoy past 11"........... forget it.
No more from me about this story, so no reason to comment (unless you absolutely need to have the last word)..
This is after all a thread dedicated to Wayne´s PEARL-3, and it started with a question about gain-setting.
Wanting 60dB of MC gain doesn´t equal wasting gain.... Period. If it was, why would Pass use 60/64/68/72 on his riaa´s ?
Your ever so hidden "talking down" is pretty annoying.
To be clear..... I´m going on 72..... and got my primary (4 yrs) education and exam papers in Audio/Video in 1979. At that time, the education had come to a crossroad. Digital or Analog. Some of my classmates chose digital, visualizing high future salaries. I chose analog because
that was my passion, and never got near those earnings, my mates later acheived.
Your comments on"never too many amplififiers" etc. is just plain stupid typical american hoarding and has absolutely nothing
to with enjoying music.
Lets just agree to disagree on most of your points above and leave it at that, Your "Besserwisser" attitude doesn´t "ring my bell".
Ohhhh did I forget....... Last wednesday I had one of my friends over for dinner and a listen to my new cartridge,
We ended up sharing 4 bottles of redwine and had a really enjoyable evening.
Proof: When I woke up the next morning, the volume knob was parked at max = 5PM in your language.
So your comment on "never enjoy past 11"........... forget it.
No more from me about this story, so no reason to comment (unless you absolutely need to have the last word)..
This is after all a thread dedicated to Wayne´s PEARL-3, and it started with a question about gain-setting.
Wanting 60dB of MC gain doesn´t equal wasting gain.... Period. If it was, why would Pass use 60/64/68/72 on his riaa´s ?
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This banter is starting to draw attention and detract from the thread. You know who you are.
Reign it in now and before it lands you with posting restrictions.
Reign it in now and before it lands you with posting restrictions.
🤣 🤣
Good one @mhenschel
Warned in post #5.376 (above your last), let´s leave the personal stuff. Let´s just say, that the "Puritas" performed
excellent through the Pearl-3, which certainly is more than capable to reveil the differences between cartridges.
An example of the Puritas through the Pearl-3 below.......
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ia73...ey=uiolg1qiilbh8q2r78imtwru1&st=1iqc9ol0&dl=0