No... the volume ( for a cone in pistonic motion ) is:
V = pi x r^2 x z
Where r is radius and z is piston travel ( in and out ). For a given volume, the larger radius driver will move in and out less... At the limits, with something like a large planar, the diaphragm travel is miniscule.
Another thing will be velocity... given that the volume needs to be generated within the same time, the time between in and out is the same for all kinds of drivers, it means that the peak velocity ( at 0 and 180 degrees of motion ) will be larger for the smaller driver.
Note:, these are my coordinates.
0 degrees, cone in the middle, moving inwards, velocity max inwards, acceleration 0.
90 degree, cone all the way in. velocity = 0, acceleration max outwards
180 degrees, cone in the middle, moving forwards, velocity max outwards, acceleration 0
270 degrees, cone all the way out. velocity = 0, acceleration max inwards
360 degrees = 0 degrees...
Equation of motion... ay! I need to think about it... since it has a sine in it.... let me edit this later if I can get around it. Needless to say, the scalar of the velocity will be 0 at both extremes of travel ( fully in, fully out ) for all kinds of drivers:
Note that the vector will be opposite, meaning at
scalar (V (0 deg)) = scalar (V (180deg) ) = 0
scalar (V (90 deg)) = scalar (V (270 deg )) = max
Now, here I'm using a steady sine wave signal. Meaning that d(omega)/dt = 0.... no change in frequency with time. With actual music, you will have changes with respect with time, so the velocity and acceleration will change at their peak intensity, but not at their zero points.
But I digressed...
So, the energy associated with the a given volume will be the same...
You trade pistonic motion for cone area. Within limits of course. Haven't you seen your small woofers move in and out?
The port will help out as it provides another source of energy that normally gets trapped within the enclosure. Sealed cabinets have a single bass peak, whereas ported cabinets tend to have a saddle shape, both of lower amplitude than the sealed peak, with the port providing the lower frequency peak. That smooths and extends the bass downwards.
This looks pretty solid to me..
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/seas-fa22rcz-build.369282/
My post 419 :
I forget to mention that obviously the designs in towers point to the real estate market of apartments and not houses, and also have a higher WAF
The guys in the marketing department rule, the engineers obey.
I forget to mention that obviously the designs in towers point to the real estate market of apartments and not houses, and also have a higher WAF
The guys in the marketing department rule, the engineers obey.
I had thought about it that, actually.
Put a blanket and/or a pillow over the tweeter. I did this once with my ADS L810s.. using them as bass augmenters for the Maggies.
The only issue is... if you want to hear "Slooooooooooow" base, this is a sure way of doing. Oh, it's deeper alright, but just not time coherent at all.
But, WTH, why not? Just need a second amp. With an AVR, can you use the spare channels to biamp?
Some other stuff I found. mltl.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/seas-fa22rcz-full-range-project.180014/#post-2414571
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/seas-fa22rcz-full-range-project.180014/post-2716419
Got curious myself.
Don’t know about the current cast one. I had some older stamped basket ones, that while not as bad still exhibited issues.
The modeling i have done with the cast makes it more of a midTweeter than a FR, hard to get decent bottom out of.
dave
Last edited:
FA22 is one of my 2 favorite 8”. And they work very nicely in a sealed box.
They do need phase plugs. A tiny bit of tweaking on the base and these work.
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/downloads/B200-phase-plug.pdf
dave
They do need phase plugs. A tiny bit of tweaking on the base and these work.
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/downloads/B200-phase-plug.pdf
dave
No, Sir, in case you meant to say "talk" instead of take, as to "take someone about" usually means taking them for a tour. It was just a general statement on speakers made by prominent designers.
Mentioning the situations (SPL, room size, listening distance, frequency range etc.) the designer's speakers are not suited for would not only ensure that the speakers find the right application, but also make things easier for customers, the majority of whom are not likely to be acoustics experts.
Last edited:
(1) Hmm... I was being funny, you know? Like the movie Taxi,, "You talkin' to me?"...
(2) I'd guess the customers don't need to be experts... I'd expect them to listen and buy what they like. The designers provide a guide but ultimately it's up to the consumers what they feel like.
(3) A few years ago, at the Irvine Audio Show, we heard a pair of Martin Logan Neoliths in a small hotel room. I thought it was impossible because the speakers simply visually overpowered the room... the seats were about 10 feet from the speakers. Yet with a pair of 1KW McIntosh mono amps and playing some jazz, those speakers drove into the room and created a soundstage that was incredible. I was surprised that such large speakers could sound so good in such a small room. The people at Martin Logan sure knew their stuff and created an incredible demonstration in the most unlikely of venues. Would a customer for speakers like the Neolith even contemplate such a small room? Likely not. Yet, they speakers managed to sound outstanding!!
Last edited:
Well, I was actually thinking the other way round (i.e. speakers too small for the space) in my earlier post. In short, I meant that the designers need to acknowledge the limitations of the speakers they sell, as opposed to advertising them as all-purpose. Yes, it's business, but the claims need to be sustainable for business to be fair, that's all.
Welcome to the world of audio. A world where sustainable claims are rare, and business are built on the construction of powerful expectation bias.
Classicalfan I'd stay with what you have and maybe add a little sub. You were perfectly happy with the system only a few weeks ago. I was always taken with those British music societies auditioning music together on really basic consumer grade equipment. If you start on the road of audiophilia you may loose your happiness with music . Just saying. Best speakers for classical music I've ever encountered were Spendors from classic line with 8" woofers. They don't have a speed of modern transducer but tonality and integration of drivers is exemplary in the context of classical music. New Spendor Classic line is very expensive these days but used older models are still accessible price wise. I have a pair of SP 1/2E and they are simply wonderful and don't need a ton of amplification to shine. Just my 2 cents . Quad systems are also said to be made for people who simply want to enjoy music without dividing the hair on four .
Hey, on eBay I just got a couple of "mint" Tice Clocks with the signature Mark II Mongolian copper wiring. They help the timing quite a bit even if one of them sort of runs slow.
I'm just impressed that anyone remembers the Tice Clock! I had one of the Radio Shack portable CD players everyone was excited about. It died. I buried it, right next to my Audio Brick.
I'm still using the mPingo discs I stole from the old lady with the "mint" Superscope stereo she bought over eBay.
..now don't laugh. Back in '94, three of us went to an audio shop to listen to the MBL 101 E Radialstrahler speakers. They sounded great, but were way off our budget.... The owner, though, was a cool guy... and he whips out some mPingo discs and places them on various part of the speaker.
I'll be darn, but I could hear some differences..
But, on the way back, we all realized that we ALL had heard differences indeed but our consensus was: "Was it worth it?".
Tice Clock... no, I didn't go that far, but I admit that idea that you could call the guy and over the phone he could "enlarge the soundstage" and "remove asynchronous distortions" if you just paid him $1K with your credit card... well, that idea was so over the top... ;-)
It seems to me that:
1. The Piccolos already meet your mid and high frequency needs, Therefore you want to retain the present mid and hf drivers in substantially the same configuration. So you have the answer to your original question: neither replacing the amplifier nor the speakers is an appropriate solution.
2. So you need to rephrase the question to something like: "What are the cost/benefits of augmenting or replacing the bass performance of the mid/bass driver?" I think that it may be best to look at this as an iterative process. I.e. You should ask:
a) "What action will achieve the biggest improvement with the least cost in time, money etc..."
b) "Are you satisfied with the results?
i. If No, go to a) above.
ii. If Yes, job done. Sit down and enjoy the sound. 🙂
Music can be enjoyed on absolutely any system be it modest factory car or midfi tower from 80' s with Japanese speakers . However, if one desires to have playback with high end attributes like sounstaging , air , fine detail and realistic tone there is no way around spending some $$$$ . Here we have what I assume modest consumer grade Dennon HT receiver and equally modest source complimented by decent but small and relatively cheap 2 way monitors and pretty high expectations on hand.