If the mass of the driver is higher, the coil has to drive more mass, huh? So it has to be 'larger" as well (more coils?)... so that inductance, all other things being the same, is higher, huh?
Hmm.... you taking 'bout me?
I have mini monitors (4 pairs), big full size box speakers (2 pairs) and Maggies (2 pairs). Different speakers for different sized rooms.
Now, one thing the OP has not mentioned... HOW LOUD does the OP play music?
Classicalfan, you could possibly try porting the piccolos the way they were designed? Edit: I see they were designed both ways, so I rephrase……maybe you could try them the ported way? That is if you’ve given up on the bass module idea.
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Well, since I've heard a full sized symphony in a hall... plus live jazz, etc... a home stereo is just NEVER gonna sound right.
The best I can approach is that I can get back to playing music two days after the performance. Because, it just doesn't sound like the real thing... by a LOOOONG shot.
Sure, you can listen to the music, and you can get something with reasonable fidelity but, IMHO, those rich princes and kings of yore had it down right... get a live orchestra and a composer in your court. Want music? Get them to puff up their wigs, have your servants bring you some nice cheese and port wine and have the composer have a go with a minuet and a concerto.
Yes, thanks. I've been thinking about doing exactly that to see if it will make much difference. I built them with the back attached by screws rather than glued, so I can easily take it off and add the port tubes.
Still though, I just don't think the 5.9" woofer is going to give me what I want. But certainly worth a try.
Well, I am a physicist.... and I believe in fast bass.
It's related to the energy stored in the driver. The bass signal is not a sine wave but a very complex waveform with overtones all over the map. Some of those signals are handled by the midrange and treble units of the speaker, which are much lighter, store far less energy and are able to change direction very quickly: no 'overhang', no 'overshoot'.
So you get a discontinuity in the time domain of the bass waveform: the lower fundamentals have 'ringing' whereas the harmonics don't . This is easy enough to hear. This is 'slow' bass.
In order to solve this, many speaker designers go for multiple bass drivers and/or very light cones/assemblies. Or, widebanders, or... planar speakers.
If you've heard the Magnapan "bass slam" you understand what I'm getting to when I write about 'fast bass'.
BTW, my son has a dual 10" driver bass amp. It sounds much more accurate than his 12 and 14 inch cabs... which ones he prefers is another thing... but I can hear this fret work much better in the dual 10" cab.
I used to have some Burhoe acoustics ‘crimsons’ which had a ported 4” woofer that would go to unbelievable depths!
edit: another was the old minimus 7’s I had hooked up as a car stereo…….what were they, like a 3” woofer?
edit: another was the old minimus 7’s I had hooked up as a car stereo…….what were they, like a 3” woofer?
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I don't play it particularly loud. Loud enough to enjoy it, but certainly not at ear piercing levels.
But it's not the loudness per se that is the problem. It's the amount of air that is being moved by the drivers in the bass region with a small driver compared to a much larger one. And that makes a big difference in what finally arrives at your ears.
Hmm... my minimonitors are all ported. Maybe this is what you need to do, huh? Build the speaker as designed? The port will extend and smooth the bass response.
Does the 8 inch Audio Nirvana have this ringing anyone know? This is back to our classic fullrange compromises, highs or bass, but pretty good imaging either way. Maybe a driver smaller than 10 in an enclosure that is more efficient in the bass might be a a good option, that seems to be a popular way to go in the fullrange subforum though there's a lot of variety.
I guess I don't quite get this.
I asked about loudness because that is in direct relation to the acoustic energy that the driver transfers into the room. For a given loudness level, the acoustic energy is the same, regardless of driver size. It's the same volume of air being moved.
This means that a small area driver will have to travel further (in pistonic motion) than a larger driver. So, the way the "volume of air" is being moved is different when launched. But it is still the same volume of air. The WAVEFORM of the bass being launched into the room is different though.
Look, the Maggies and Acoustic Energy AE1 are extreme polar opposites of each other. The AE1s pump those cones in and out (ported, btw)... the Maggies just stand there. They both are shy in deep bass, but they are both very accurate. Yet, the Maggies load the room with a bass waveform that is huge. The small speaker is spherical, the large one is cylindrical. You can attempt to achieve some parity by putting the small driver in a large baffle (here I'm repeating what newvirus2008 wrote earlier). But still... they do sound different even though, technically, they both generate the same amount of acoustic energy into the room ( loudness ).
So, I will agree with you that the larger the radiating area of the speaker does make a difference in how the room is loaded -for a given frequency.
I'm assuming here the same frequency, ignoring low pass filtering issues by the smaller driver.
Perhaps this is what you're hearing with the larger driver? Deeper bass response? Which, in a small room, will soon present itself as an issue of resonances. Thus, my asking how loud do you play music? Because, IMHO, the main limitation of a small room will be how loud it can get before the resonances rear their ugly head.
You could try mocking up a larger front baffle in cardboard or foamcore to see if a larger front baffle would help. It's hard to define precisely what causes what we hear I know. The air pressure mushes out to the sides of a minimonitor and doesn't do much there. Porting the cabinet is going to give you more bass of course, but you might not want a ported cabinet for whatever reason.
I'm not suggesting that you can achieve the same experience at home as you get in a live performance. Not even close.
Just saying that there is a big difference in what you do experience at home depending on the specific speakers and particularly their relative sizes.
The design was published as being either ported or sealed with main difference being bass extension. Builder's choice. But that doesn't change the fact that a small woofer just doesn't move as much air as a larger one.
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I don't think this is right. A small area driver can produce exactly the same frequency wave form as a larger driver, but just not with as much energy. Or in other terms, not moving as much air volume. Perhaps others would like to comment and respond.
Yeah, one of the options I've been thinking about is a large full range driver. That might give me the bass and midrange I've been looking for, but at the sacrifice of the very high end.
Some of the recent Lii Audio products are interesting. They use a whizzer to get the high end, which I'm not thrilled about it, but their 10" model might be worth a try, nevertheless. They certainly get good reviews.
Yes, that's one of the things I've been considering. Anyone want to design a crossover for me? I could try to do it myself, but don't really have the experience that I think is needed to get it right.
Yes, the small transducer reproduces exactly the same waveform, but at lower SPL than a speaker that has a higher SD.
I am one of those who prefer a greater area and less movement of the cone and not the other way around.
Today's popular 6 1/2-inch drivers have long VC travel to compensate for their lower SPL, but placed in towers with 3 or four of them, they can match the SPL of a single 15-inch driver without much travel. . I have to do the calculations, but I can't right now. Sorry.
I am one of those who prefer a greater area and less movement of the cone and not the other way around.
Today's popular 6 1/2-inch drivers have long VC travel to compensate for their lower SPL, but placed in towers with 3 or four of them, they can match the SPL of a single 15-inch driver without much travel. . I have to do the calculations, but I can't right now. Sorry.
