Dave/Chris,
did you ever get to make some plans for the subs-in-stands to match the fonkens? I've often planned to go back and make them using a PLLXO and separate amp for the bass. Got diverted by some sachikos.....
Fran
did you ever get to make some plans for the subs-in-stands to match the fonkens? I've often planned to go back and make them using a PLLXO and separate amp for the bass. Got diverted by some sachikos.....
Fran
I was doing some research on a single subwoofer with smaller driver to better integrate with the fonkens in my small room. In particular, I was looking into the 30Hz volvotreter tapped horn project that uses the tang band w6-1139 driver.
The CSS SDX7 suggested by Dave also fits in this kind of enclosure. Playing with hornresp I came up with the following:
The response seems to be reasonable plain from 35Hz to 100Hz which is the the freq. intended to cut the subwoofer and let then fonken play.
Values from hornresp:
30Hz - 102dB
35Hz - 107db
40Hz - 109db
90Hz - 109db
100Hz -108db
The displacement is excellent at the main energy level. Maybe a sub-sonic filter to protect the driver?
Any comments?
thanks
Highef
The CSS SDX7 suggested by Dave also fits in this kind of enclosure. Playing with hornresp I came up with the following:
The response seems to be reasonable plain from 35Hz to 100Hz which is the the freq. intended to cut the subwoofer and let then fonken play.
Values from hornresp:
30Hz - 102dB
35Hz - 107db
40Hz - 109db
90Hz - 109db
100Hz -108db
The displacement is excellent at the main energy level. Maybe a sub-sonic filter to protect the driver?
Any comments?
thanks
Highef
Wouldn't take long, i just need to mod the existing ones to reflect the changes we are going to make.
dave
Keep pokin' me for them... my queue is so long, and so many of these are 20 min, 45 there, a poke will often get them cleared.
dave
dave
Just as curiosity, here is a graph of my fonkens (after the make-up treatment)
The measurement was done in semi-anecoic conditions with some room influence (most around 100Hz) and up to 10 kHz (the upper limit precision threshold of my measurement equipment).
Regards
HF
The measurement was done in semi-anecoic conditions with some room influence (most around 100Hz) and up to 10 kHz (the upper limit precision threshold of my measurement equipment).
Regards
HF
Just as curiosity, here is a graph of my fonkens (after the make-up treatment)
The measurement was done in semi-anecoic conditions with some room influence (most around 100Hz) and up to 10 kHz (the upper limit precision threshold of my measurement equipment).
Regards
HF
pretty colours on the polka-dots
but howzit sound?
I didn't apply the Gloss coat yet.
I will listen during this week before glossing and then I post my impressions here.
thanks
HF
I will listen during this week before glossing and then I post my impressions here.
thanks
HF
Hi Folks,
yesterday I have made many tests and comparisons with the fonkens.
The equipment available was the following:
Speakers
One pair of lowther DX3 with phase equalizer in voigt pipe enclosure
One pair of Fonken 127 with Planet-10 Trifoil + EnABL
Amplifiers:
1-Solid State 12-Watts (Constant Current amplifier)
2-Triode Class A Push Pull 12 Watt tube amplifier
3-Triode Push Pull 18-Watts (owned by me).
4-Single Ended 2-Watts tube amplifier
The Tubes used are not known tubes like KT88, 300B, etc... The amps are manufactured by a very specialized local expert that is able to do anything related to amplifiers. (all the amps used were built by him).
Results:
Well, the reason of the test was not to compare the fonken x lowther, also I'm not sure if the DX3 was ok or in the right cabinet, but when comparing to the fonken, it sounded weird. The fonken was much more natural and organic. But lowther seemed with more controlled highs. In the right cabinet (and also with EnABL, why not) the DX3 should perform much better.
The real reason of the test was to see how the Fonken behaves with that different amplifiers. With the amplifier 1, it had a lot of bass, but the highs was artificial and also the mids.
With 2 and 3 (triodes push pull) it was much better in relation to the medium and highs and less bass than before.
And with 4 (Single ended 2-Watt) poor bass but incredible middle and very smooth highs, but the 2 watts I think was the flaw. The room was very big. But I really enjoyed this amplifier.
Soon I will be able to test with single ended 5-Watt with 2A3 tubes. Have anyone tested the fonken with this type of amplifier?
Although amplifiers are something to be in personal taste, I would appreciate to hear from you what kind of amplifier you like in you fonkens or 126/127-based speaker and what would you recommend?
We are able to build any topology with any tube here.
thank you
HF
yesterday I have made many tests and comparisons with the fonkens.
The equipment available was the following:
Speakers
One pair of lowther DX3 with phase equalizer in voigt pipe enclosure
One pair of Fonken 127 with Planet-10 Trifoil + EnABL
Amplifiers:
1-Solid State 12-Watts (Constant Current amplifier)
2-Triode Class A Push Pull 12 Watt tube amplifier
3-Triode Push Pull 18-Watts (owned by me).
4-Single Ended 2-Watts tube amplifier
The Tubes used are not known tubes like KT88, 300B, etc... The amps are manufactured by a very specialized local expert that is able to do anything related to amplifiers. (all the amps used were built by him).
Results:
Well, the reason of the test was not to compare the fonken x lowther, also I'm not sure if the DX3 was ok or in the right cabinet, but when comparing to the fonken, it sounded weird. The fonken was much more natural and organic. But lowther seemed with more controlled highs. In the right cabinet (and also with EnABL, why not) the DX3 should perform much better.
The real reason of the test was to see how the Fonken behaves with that different amplifiers. With the amplifier 1, it had a lot of bass, but the highs was artificial and also the mids.
With 2 and 3 (triodes push pull) it was much better in relation to the medium and highs and less bass than before.
And with 4 (Single ended 2-Watt) poor bass but incredible middle and very smooth highs, but the 2 watts I think was the flaw. The room was very big. But I really enjoyed this amplifier.
Soon I will be able to test with single ended 5-Watt with 2A3 tubes. Have anyone tested the fonken with this type of amplifier?
Although amplifiers are something to be in personal taste, I would appreciate to hear from you what kind of amplifier you like in you fonkens or 126/127-based speaker and what would you recommend?
We are able to build any topology with any tube here.
thank you
HF
I have RH84 and DynaMutt (set in Pentode, have to try triode). Chris has 2A3 SE, EL84 PP Class A triode, EL34 SE, and 300B SE (the last is falling off the bottom). GainClones & Tripath amps are a big notch down.
dave
dave
Thanks for the answer Dave,
some friends told me that the DX3 played very well with 2A3 SET (the best they achieved so far). I'm curious to know about the EL84 and EL34 it would be interesting to build them here for comparison.
Do you have some impressions or preferences between them? Chris, any input?
thanks
HF
I'm currently in the middle of a drawn-out kitchen rebuild, and haven't much opportunity to listen to my audio rig since Christmas break.
Indeed, since some of the electrical, plumbing and ventilation rework had to be accessed through the suspended ceiling in my listening room, the system has been torn down for over a month - so my wife's MacBook/airtunes and EL70 microtower system have filled the bill.
2A3 is Bottlehead Paramour II (now discontinued in favour of the Paramount) - Paul's Stereomour currently in final development stages would probably be close in sonics.
300B are George Wright Mono7 - 6SN7 driver. Few folks can claim to have heard every possible iteration with this output device, but of the half dozen or so I've heard in different systems, these are the smoothest and least romantically colored 300B SE I've experienced so far.
EL84 is DIY hack-job 😀 on old Scott integrated organ donor - 3.x of P/P triode, with the Eli Duttman/Jim McShane "El Cheapo" LTP driver stage. It's actually now running Russian 6P15-P EP or whatever they're called (ruggedized version of SV83), to allow for the Hazen suppressor grid trick as recently promoted by Steve Deckert. Whatever this might be doing to the operating conditions, or phase / distortion spectra I can't say, but I quite like what it does for the soundstage/dimensionality.
The same trick is also incorporated in the EL34 SE, which is a custom amp by Eddie Vaughn, builder of the Carina EL84. At a nominal 5W, this is far and away the most powerful of single digit lot, both on paper and most significantly when making music.
OTOH, the Jolida EL34, which even in triode mode has several times the power of any of the other amps, and can certainly play louder, is the least intimate and delicate of the bunch.
I'm frequently reminded when composing this type of commentary just how crazy this hobby can become. While my collection is extremely modest compared to many seriously addicted audio junkies, with over 6 distinctly different speaker designs and the amps listed above (plus 2 Class T amps and a Sony stereo receiver), there too many possible combinations from which to choose.
BUT, if I did have to pick only one amp from the above list, it would depend on the room/speaker. For FE127 or Mark Audio/CSS EL70, it'd be the Vaughn Audio EL34; if the room could accommodate FE126E in BLH or such, the 300B, for tonality - particularly in the upper midrange.
Again, depending on room and enclosure...
Best I've heard for Lowthers were 75TLs, for something efficient (FLH, ~106dB),
and 304TLs (OBs, lower efficiency ~100dB).
But topology- driver, iron, etc make at at least as much difference as output tube. Both those amps had Slagle nickle interstage and output transformers, MV rects, etc...
I've also heard 126/127s w/ EL84 SET, PP 300b, blah, blah...
Personally found those drivers rather wanting for an amp with more uh, harmonic structure, and power to support them?
But if you have Lowthers, why mess w/ 127s???
Thank you for the answers.
I don't have lowther, maybe in the near future for some rea$ons. I have friends that are lowther fans. But I really like my Fonkens and don't see a deep distance between them. I want still try other fullranges before going to Lowther.
If you have to choose an amplifier for Fonken 127, for a small room, lets say 150ft2 (14m2). What would be your choose?
I'm inclined to choose 5 Watt 2A3 Single Ended, what do you think?
thanks
HF
I don't have lowther, maybe in the near future for some rea$ons. I have friends that are lowther fans. But I really like my Fonkens and don't see a deep distance between them. I want still try other fullranges before going to Lowther.
If you have to choose an amplifier for Fonken 127, for a small room, lets say 150ft2 (14m2). What would be your choose?
I'm inclined to choose 5 Watt 2A3 Single Ended, what do you think?
thanks
HF
that's even smaller than my long/skinny L-shaped room (8'6" w x 22' long ), and for my listening habits (being a gentleman of a "certain age" - generally under 90dB SPL) the 3-5 watt range is more than enough to satisfy my requirements
the 2A3 is certainly a great candidate in that territory, and there are probably hundreds of designs from which to chose
in the larger areas of "family/TV room" (320 ft^2) and upstairs (close to 400 ft^2 with the latest renos), larger (FE167) or multiple drivers (dual EL70s) and 20-30watts of SS power are the case
but of course, to each his own
I don't have a budget to travel for my audio habit, and aside from the generally non-ideal listening conditions at a few local audio shows (VSAC 2001,2003 & 2008), I've not had the opportunity to carefully audition as wide a range of electronic and speaker designs as Robert. Even so, there's no doubt he couldn't be more correct that in regards to amps, topology and implementation can easily swamp differences between types of devices.
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Fonken woof
I have been listening to a pair of Fonkens that I built for a little under a year now and I'd like to say they are a very musical speaker and a pleasure to listen to.Big thank you to the team at Planet 10 HiFi.
I'm at the point where I'd like to add some bass support, I was thinking of using either the CSS SDX7 or Trio8, foot print isn't to big of a deal to me as long as my fonkens sit on top and don't look to out of place.
My cabinets are 233mm wide x 306 deep, slight deviation from the plans as I used thicker ply.
Any suggestions welcomed.
I do have pictures, not to sure on how to upload them.
Lindsay.
I have been listening to a pair of Fonkens that I built for a little under a year now and I'd like to say they are a very musical speaker and a pleasure to listen to.Big thank you to the team at Planet 10 HiFi.
I'm at the point where I'd like to add some bass support, I was thinking of using either the CSS SDX7 or Trio8, foot print isn't to big of a deal to me as long as my fonkens sit on top and don't look to out of place.
My cabinets are 233mm wide x 306 deep, slight deviation from the plans as I used thicker ply.
Any suggestions welcomed.
I do have pictures, not to sure on how to upload them.
Lindsay.
Lindsay,
I did get your email, just not had achance to answer it yet.
Either of these woofers will work... Just make a sealed box that matcheds the cross-section of your Fonkens and is as tall as you can live with. You'll need 2 SDX7 or 1 Trio 8... the Trio8 (i'm guessing) will probably not have quite the HF finese of the SDX7 (assumeing you do at least the minimal mod, partly because of the better HF and partly due to push-push. The Trio 8 will go lower and is decidely bigger bang for the buck (since 1 Trio8 costs just a tick less than 1 SDX7)
dave
I did get your email, just not had achance to answer it yet.
Either of these woofers will work... Just make a sealed box that matcheds the cross-section of your Fonkens and is as tall as you can live with. You'll need 2 SDX7 or 1 Trio 8... the Trio8 (i'm guessing) will probably not have quite the HF finese of the SDX7 (assumeing you do at least the minimal mod, partly because of the better HF and partly due to push-push. The Trio 8 will go lower and is decidely bigger bang for the buck (since 1 Trio8 costs just a tick less than 1 SDX7)
dave
