Sounds like a plan. No, I see nothing more than anyone else.
BTW, did I spell your name wrong too? (Nathan?)
You entered HansOn with an "O"..........it's spelled with an "E". Hansen! Not a big deal I'm just giving you a hard time.
I did some more measurements today in the basement to look at the vertical. I wanted to measure +/- in elevation as I only measured "across" the top port when I did the outside measurements. Nothing of note stands out.....I was thinking I might see more of an effect from the port on the port side but the curves where quite similar. The only real difference was the level dropped off more quickly on the "smooth" side. I can post that up if anyone is interested. I also did the +/- vertical polars with a small foam plug in the throat but the only effect there really was the hf attenuation.
I also did a distortion measurement for Art but the loudest I could get was 106dB at 3'. I'm using my pc onboard soundcard and my amps have passive input attenuators so the system is limited. There's also some digital attenuation going on to keep from clipping. I forgot to save the data but 2nd HD was at about 3% at 1.2khz which is the compression driver running lower than it ought to. I might bring it upstairs and try that again on my main system. SPL shouldn't be an issue there
I also did a distortion measurement for Art but the loudest I could get was 106dB at 3'. I'm using my pc onboard soundcard and my amps have passive input attenuators so the system is limited. There's also some digital attenuation going on to keep from clipping. I forgot to save the data but 2nd HD was at about 3% at 1.2khz which is the compression driver running lower than it ought to. I might bring it upstairs and try that again on my main system. SPL shouldn't be an issue there
I'd appreciate that, Mr. HansEn :^).I also did a distortion measurement for Art but the loudest I could get was 106dB at 3'. I'm using my pc onboard soundcard and my amps have passive input attenuators so the system is limited. There's also some digital attenuation going on to keep from clipping. I forgot to save the data but 2nd HD was at about 3% at 1.2khz which is the compression driver running lower than it ought to. I might bring it upstairs and try that again on my main system. SPL shouldn't be an issue there
Wondering what level the HF driver can do at 10% THD at one meter?
Art
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No, that's fine. You should correct things like that. I would, and do.
The name convention "son" is in my head since I have a lot of friends of the "son" convention, Sorenson, Thorson, etc. I had a student from Iceland who was "Tania Haroldsdaughter" - that was a new one on me.
When is an "e" an "o"!!??? Different countries?
Earl - I think my Grandma on my dad's side came from Norway.
It's lower distortion than my particular compression driver, the BMS 4524. As I said before in this thread the 1" vc compression driver I'm using here really isn't suited for use below 1.5khz as distortion rises, and the 1st order hpf I'm using doesn't help there. There are many compression drivers that are suitable down to 1khz or lower in a home setting (my 4552nd's would work well, the 4550 and DE250 even better). My 4552s crossed at 900hz on this same waveguide are more like .5% 2nd HD at 1khz after the xo, and that's crossing a bit low for that driver. You can't look at what I'm doing here and make the statement that you did like it's better than all compression drivers.
Have you eq'd it flat to match the level at 15khz and run the high level sweeps?
It's lower distortion than my particular compression driver, the BMS 4524. As I said before in this thread the 1" vc compression driver I'm using here really isn't suited for use below 1.5khz as distortion rises, and the 1st order hpf I'm using doesn't help there. There are many compression drivers that are suitable down to 1khz or lower in a home setting (my 4552nd's would work well, the 4550 and DE250 even better). My 4552s crossed at 900hz on this same waveguide are more like .5% 2nd HD at 1khz after the xo, and that's crossing a bit low for that driver. You can't look at what I'm doing here and make the statement that you did like it's better than all compression drivers.
Have you eq'd it flat to match the level at 15khz and run the high level sweeps?
Ah thanks and thanks for the tip. Shooting for more of an average then? I'll give it a go on my main system.
Sen and son endings are patronymics used in Scandinavia and comes from son of. Hansen in this case would be son of Hans. Sen ending was most common to find in Denmark and Norway while son ending was common to Sweden and Iceland. The same patronymic convension was used for the girls as well. Datter (Norway and Denmark), dotter (Norway and Sweden) or dóttir (Iceland) means daughter of. When a family chose to use the surename over generations the patronymic became a frozen patronymic, which is most common today.
Your student Tania's original surename would most probably have been Haraldsdóttir, a patronymic for daughter of Harald.
Pretty off-topic though
I'm sure it could, but as I mentioned before I accidentally saved over the 20deg curve so that's missing. I can post the contour plot I made in ARTA but I'm not sure how accurate it is with that curve missing.
Tytte - yeah it's ot but interesting nonetheless.
You are right, it's not generalizable to all compression drivers - although Weltersys' data with his lowest distortion driver still was above my Trynergy.
I have not had a chance to do anymore testing as I have been on travel. I may out the 10F in the micro Trynergy and see if distortion can go down.
Xrk971,
You are comparing a "full range" cone driver on a narrowing HF dispersion Tractrix to a high frequency driver on a constant directivity horn. Yes, the cone mid with many times the Xmax is cleaner than a HF driver in the midrange, but the HF compression driver is capable of much greater SPL in the high frequency as well as a much wider, even coverage pattern.
Comparing a midrange low compression ratio driver to your cone driver on a Tractrix
http://communitypro.com/sites/default/files/M200A.pdf
would be more appropriate, the M200 has low distortion (<2%) at around 130 dB.
Art
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A compression driver has a much "cleaner" response over 5khz as well. I'm not sure why you're intent on proving the low NLD superiority of your fullrangers on a horn, xrk. I feel that overall high eff and horns/waveguides are the way to go, but I don't drop into dipole and cone/dome threads to try to show them the error of their ways .....we are really on the same path. Just different sets of directions. The Trynergy is very impressive for a cone on a horn, and I think it's a neat concept but it's just a different trade-off. Just guessing here as I know very little about NLD audibility, but I would think the linear distortion of your fullrange at hf would be much more audible than the difference between .1% and .5-1% THD. That said I don't want this to spin into a distortion audibility discussion.........we've got that going already
.....we are really on the same path. Just different sets of directions. The Trynergy is very impressive for a cone on a horn, and I think it's a neat concept but it's just a different trade-off. Just guessing here as I know very little about NLD audibility, but I would think the linear distortion of your fullrange at hf would be much more audible than the difference between .1% and .5-1% THD. That said I don't want this to spin into a distortion audibility discussion.........we've got that going already
I will say that I have never resolved in my own mind what compression ratio is ideal. I could accept that 1:1 was optimum just as easily as I can accept that 10:1 or 5:1 is optimal. Its just too complex to sort out all the inter-related issues. There is no reason why a 1:1 ratio could not also be constant directivity, but I think that it is clear that efficiency tends to favor higher ratios. But the waveguide systems that I build have headroom to spare so I could easily live with lower efficiency. There just isn't any choice of ratios in the marketplace.
I do think that my research into the audibility of NLD favors higher compression ratios.
I do think that my research into the audibility of NLD favors higher compression ratios.
I am not out to prove superiority of a cone on a horn - just starting to see potential for applications where high SPL (below 110dB) is not needed and EQ can be used to bring the falling response of the cone driver up flat - would the overall performance be of higher quality than a compression driver ? I know you can't beat a compression driver for sensitivity at HF's but there is something about how they sound - just not as good as a cone or dome or AMT, that's my opinion but I know several others that share that view. Given a choice between a compression driver and a dome tweeter, I would prefer the dome if the SPL is sufficient.
I don't agree with that, (but maybe you haven't heard a good implementation) but I will admit that I had a design for a waveguide on a flat piston driver with no compression decades ago. I still think that this has potential. But will it be head and shoulders, just, or even not, better than a compression driver, I am not so sure. Compression drivers have a long and admiral history of refinement. As much as I'd like to try and use a direct radiating piston, I just don't see a downside to the compression driver - so I have never done the direct radiator approach.
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