Mini-Synergy Horn Experiment

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I have often thought about just adding a single channel DSP to a passive crossover just to fine tune the response. Eliminates an amp, although not quite as flexible.

Art - I am aware of the Yorkville. That may also be why they won't single license it, it may be exclusive. I just don't see how it can stand up against the prior art. Some very specific limitations I suspect, but those are usually easy to circumvent.
 
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Nate,

Yesterday I did an A/B listening test between a 3.5" Tymphony TC9FD-18-08 "full range" driver (about $12) and the (relatively) new Eminence N314T-8 (3" diaphragm 1.4" exit), both on my Maltese 13 x 13 degree conical horns. Although the N314T-8 had less HF distortion than any of the HF drivers I have tested (BMS 4550, 4552, B&C DE82, EVDH1A, JBL 2445, JBL 2425) the TC9FD was cleaner sounding. The TC9FD has far more clean output capability in the 500 Hz range than any HF driver I've tested, though my listening test was using a steep crossover at

The TC9FD required more power than the compression driver, but I was amazed at the clarity at the high SPL levels I worked up to. I'm fairly used to the distortion level in speakers telling when to back off, but the TC9FD gave almost no indication of distress until the voice coil melted the glue off the former and it "gaacked" out over about a 1 second period.

Prior to the TC9FD letting out the magic smoke, it had survived several songs averaging 120 dBA slow at one meter, with peaks of up to 126 dB. The driver is only rated for 30 watts (IEC 2685, whatever that is) so considering the SPL, amazing that it lasted as long as it did, peak power was in the 200 watt range.

The results were impressive enough that I will be doing further experiments with wider dispersion horns with dual TC9FD and throat vanes to determine if uniform dispersion can be achieved.

The chart below shows the response of the TC9FD in a sealed (approximately) one liter chamber and on the Maltese horn with the same chamber. My measurements confirm the specified 1w1m sensitivity rating of 83.5 is correct, the horn raises sensitivity around 96.5 dB midband.

Art

Nice test Art! Even though a TC9 was sacrificed in the process. Now you know the clarity and low HD I have been talking about. The 10F is even cleaner sounding.

Like I said earlier - a cone driver in a horn just sounds better than a compression driver. The reason is clean sound.

Thanks for sharing.
 
Why not coax in horn instead of full range (like Danley SM80 or 3 way like SM100F) ?
Also will this be :
1) A more simpler design (which avoids mids firing through holes etc )
2) But which is good enough for home usage at the cost of SPL (just about max 105dB at LP) ?
3) Yet can give a low pattern control freq proportionate to the size of horn
 
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A nice coax is a viable choice as well. Lots of ways to get point source like solutions. Synergys, nested horns, coax drivers, full ranges, waveguide/horn speakers with very steep linear phase FIR filters to avoid lobing.

What ever works best for the application.

I'd like to see a nice coax. The off axis measurements of every coax I've seen are nowhere near as good as a good wg.
 
Earl,

Yorkville is already licensed by Danley to produce horns using offset drivers, their "Unity" series. The U15 HF section also uses three mid drivers like Nate did. Their VTC division also uses DSL's Paraline and tapped horn concepts.

That said, making offset horns with central HF driver(s) is used by so many companies that it really can't be considered "new" from what I can see.

Art

That doesn't make sense. The Yorkville speakers are Unity horns, and Unity horns are patented by Sound Physics Labs. Sound Physics Labs also licensed the technology to Lambda Acoustics.

The Synergy Horns are a different patent and a different company. The inventor is the same. The intellectual property is not.

IIRC, something similar happened with Don Keele back in the 80s. He did constant directivity horns for JBL, then did similar horns for Electrovoice. Same inventor, two patents, two companies.
 
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Nah, you just have to crossover to the tweeter higher so it doesn't try to go low. Synergy arrangement puts all the midrange onto cones anyway.

A cone in WG has the nice hat trick of covering the 500Hz to 6kHz telephone band with one driver. The low HD in this range is one of the main reasons subjectively it sounds so clean. Synergies all have a limitation of how high one can get the mids to go due to the band pass injection ports limiting the upper to circa 1.2kHz hence the compression driver has to be crossed typically lower than optimum. Making the compression driver handle 1.2kHz to 20kHz is a lot to ask I think.
 
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I was hired to review these patents and it could well be that they simply do not want to raise the issue since I don't think that they could stand up to serious prior art consideration. And if they let out one license then they have to license everyone. If they license one and then don't give another license to anyone who asks then the patent basically becomes public domain.

License agreements are made between the company granting the license and the licensee on individual basis. Think of it as a real estate lease with terms on scope and usage drawn up anyway the owner wishes. A company can agree to license to any company and refuse to anyone else (but limited by terms in license agreement for exclusivity for licensee if applicable) that doesn't make the patent become public domain.
 
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That doesn't make sense. The Yorkville speakers are Unity horns, and Unity horns are patented by Sound Physics Labs. Sound Physics Labs also licensed the technology to Lambda Acoustics.

The Synergy Horns are a different patent and a different company. The inventor is the same. The intellectual property is not.

IIRC, something similar happened with Don Keele back in the 80s. He did constant directivity horns for JBL, then did similar horns for Electrovoice. Same inventor, two patents, two companies.

Just to be clear..... we do have current agreements with both Sound Physics Labs and Tom Danley himself for Unity, Synergy, Para-line and Tapped Horn technologies.

Todd Michael
Yorkville Sound
 
Even when a coax is inside a large waveguide and high passed so that mid (of the coax) hardly moves for normal SPLs ( like SM100F )?
It's not the excursion of the mid (if it was high I could see that having an effect as well) I was thinking about but the transition from the comp driver throat to the cone. Every measurement of a coax I can think of shows a pretty rough hf response - at least for pro coaxials.
 
Nate - I have been thinking of making my measurement software available as public domain. The problem is that I have had nothing but problems with distribution of the exe and dll files in the past. Would you be interested in working with me to sort of the problems with a view to eventual release of the software?

Then if that works it would be great if I could get the web database to allow for people to import there own data. I am aware of web database design, but I don't have enough expertise to do this myself. Maybe someone out there does and could help.

If all this works out then I could offer up my crossover design tool that I used to make all my designs since I won't be using it anymore.
 
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