Hi X,
It would be funny to build a foam board big one for the Pioneer Bofu drivers I have, might blow it apart.Thanks X for sharing your knowledge!!
Webber
I also have a 8" BOFU drivers, too heavy for the foam??
No, it can be done by multi layer sandwich of FC-cardboard-FC like I did in XKi thread for Beta 8Cx. Use double wall heavy duty cardboard and latex caulking to bond together with hot melt. PVA or contact cement may work too but watch for fumes from contact cement melting foam.
For kicks i stuck one my old FE108E sigmas in a mini karlsonator. They're just about the same size as the CHR70 and fit well enough for a quick test. They only rattle down to 95hz or so, but the FR is basically balanced, if you don't mind a slightly exaggerated bbc dip. Normally getting bass out of these is like squeezing blood from a turnip, and I've really only used them in FAST type applications in the past. For un-augmented use, they really should be in some sort of compound front/rear horn, IMHO. I had these enclosures around, and they are in a way a compact equivalent, so I gave it a go.
The enclosures are .53 scale, but ~5.2" wide.
The enclosures are .53 scale, but ~5.2" wide.
GregB,
That is a pretty nice response you got out of the Fostex in a min K'nator. You are right about not much bass as it falls off below 100Hz. I recall them going down to 70H or so with the CHR70. The uniform polar response is one the greatest things about these speakers. My measured polar responses in the XKi still astonish me.
That is a pretty nice response you got out of the Fostex in a min K'nator. You are right about not much bass as it falls off below 100Hz. I recall them going down to 70H or so with the CHR70. The uniform polar response is one the greatest things about these speakers. My measured polar responses in the XKi still astonish me.
Hoffman's iron law. It's a more efficient, so it gives up some bass extension in the same size enclosure. I'm happy it works at all, as the little sigma is almost like a compression driver.
I'm always happy to get the 100-500Hz region right, as that is where all the fundamentals live (low C to high C). So count me happy here.
If one had a pair of FE108EZ and wanted a very compact system, this could work with a subwoofer crossed in at 90hz. Note that the Fostex factory horn design is about 6x bigger. (!)
That said, I prefer the synergy of the cheaper CHR70 in these. The Fostex is more refined in the midrange, but that refinement is a bit wasted by the diffraction effects, whatever their positive aspects, and the bass potential of the mini-k'ator is underutilized.
I'm always happy to get the 100-500Hz region right, as that is where all the fundamentals live (low C to high C). So count me happy here.
If one had a pair of FE108EZ and wanted a very compact system, this could work with a subwoofer crossed in at 90hz. Note that the Fostex factory horn design is about 6x bigger. (!)
That said, I prefer the synergy of the cheaper CHR70 in these. The Fostex is more refined in the midrange, but that refinement is a bit wasted by the diffraction effects, whatever their positive aspects, and the bass potential of the mini-k'ator is underutilized.
that was a Martin Pro Sound 1114 coax - - 80oz magnet - in general somewhat better sound in my Ks than a W8-1772 plus 7-8dB louder for a given input and more output capability. Their price dipped under $100 a few years back - I mentioned it here but no interest as the folks here are fixated on little FR whether transparent or not - - wish i had bought more but have a close cousin set with horn and 80oz slug, and another set with 109oz magnet plus 10CX and 1cx by P-audio and Beyma plus another set of custom 12cx from Eminence without horn plus two sets of 15cx with that horn from Eminence. I'm as bad with cx as a lot of people are with fullrange.
here's one of the Eminence 15cx with a crude but effective demonstration of a K-tube crammed down the horn in a klam15
I have a C12CX Eminence which is a like a 1114 but stiffer suspension in a klam12 - not prefect but incisive and sound clearer than
a lot of fullrange
here's one of the Eminence 15cx with a crude but effective demonstration of a K-tube crammed down the horn in a klam15
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I have a C12CX Eminence which is a like a 1114 but stiffer suspension in a klam12 - not prefect but incisive and sound clearer than
a lot of fullrange
Last edited:
A few weeks ago I put together some mini karsonators with the omnes bb4.al, a variation of the chr70. The build is a sandwich of foamcore and thin lauan ply that i had lying around, sealed with silicon, filled with old wool sweaters and polyfill, and exceedingly ugly. These are destined to stay in my studio.
I was not expecting much and that was pretty much what i got. After removing some stuffing they sounded better although still colored and a bit boomy. Today, however, i hooked them up to my YJ 3116 stock amp with matching looks and was given quite a shock. They sounded great! Still colored with a little extra punch in the bass but natural and really enjoyable to listen to. That was replacing a firstwatt F2 which sounds incredible with my fostex and my monacors! The bb4.al had been in my too small bib cabs built for the fe108es.
There must be some cheap and ugly synergy between the amp and drivers. I was ready to bin the cabs but it now looks as if a proper birch ply build is in the cards. And the amp which sounded ok but harsh with the fostex will be receiving some mods and perhaps even a case!
Thanks again X and Greg B.! Now I also need to build some tabaqs for my other pair to compare.
I was not expecting much and that was pretty much what i got. After removing some stuffing they sounded better although still colored and a bit boomy. Today, however, i hooked them up to my YJ 3116 stock amp with matching looks and was given quite a shock. They sounded great! Still colored with a little extra punch in the bass but natural and really enjoyable to listen to. That was replacing a firstwatt F2 which sounds incredible with my fostex and my monacors! The bb4.al had been in my too small bib cabs built for the fe108es.
There must be some cheap and ugly synergy between the amp and drivers. I was ready to bin the cabs but it now looks as if a proper birch ply build is in the cards. And the amp which sounded ok but harsh with the fostex will be receiving some mods and perhaps even a case!
Thanks again X and Greg B.! Now I also need to build some tabaqs for my other pair to compare.
Well, it seems as though the Omnes (CHR70) has been unanimously agreed upon as well! Right Greg?
Well, it seems as though the Omnes (CHR70) has been unanimously agreed upon as well! Right Greg?
Yeah, unanimous, all two of us...
BTW, did you make the .53 scaled ~5" wide mini Karlsonator for CHR70 (posted on my stupid hifi tricks page), or the .4 scale one?
EMT drivers in a Karlson
Hey Freddie, your oval drivers mounted in klams triggered my interest in the following.
I have a pair of old EMT 8 x 13 oval woofers (92390al - from the 60s) which go with a pair of 3 inch (or so) tweeters per side that were pulled out of my father's audio system. I have no idea what the T/S measurements are for these speakers, but the boxes that they came out of were not small, so I suspect that the Qts is not low. Also, they don't look like Xmax giants by any measure (small surround). Thus, I wonder if they would be good candidates for a Karlsonator-type enclosure (or klams).
If so, would they be modeled with the longer dimension of the driver mounted in a horizontal direction?
I appreciate any comments about this idea.
Or, should I measure the T/S values for this speaker before thinking about anything else.
Retsel
Hey Freddie, your oval drivers mounted in klams triggered my interest in the following.
I have a pair of old EMT 8 x 13 oval woofers (92390al - from the 60s) which go with a pair of 3 inch (or so) tweeters per side that were pulled out of my father's audio system. I have no idea what the T/S measurements are for these speakers, but the boxes that they came out of were not small, so I suspect that the Qts is not low. Also, they don't look like Xmax giants by any measure (small surround). Thus, I wonder if they would be good candidates for a Karlsonator-type enclosure (or klams).
If so, would they be modeled with the longer dimension of the driver mounted in a horizontal direction?
I appreciate any comments about this idea.
Or, should I measure the T/S values for this speaker before thinking about anything else.
Retsel
Yeah, unanimous, all two of us...
BTW, did you make the .53 scaled ~5" wide mini Karlsonator for CHR70 (posted on my stupid hifi tricks page), or the .4 scale one?
I used the .53 dimensions as per your drawing. Having had such good results I'm debating building the 2 x chr70 that X drew up earlier in the thread, this time with birch ply. Any idea how this would compare to a Castle MicroTower or a Tabaq?
Regarding the tpa3116, I didn't like it at all with my Fostex fe108es or fe165k (both in BIBs), found it nice with my monacor sph60x in dipole MLTLs, but great with the BB4.al in the mini karlsonator.
The bass and midrange from a dual driver K'nator will surpass any thing from a comparable MLTL speaker. There is no comparison really - just see that you won't even need baffle step compensation. The imaging of a slender tower speaker will be better than a K'nator but the off axis polars of a K'nator are excellent - very wide sweet spot and the sound will appear very large relative to the speaker size.
OK, since you put it that way it looks as though I will have to build them!
Any chance for a link to a larger drawing of the original karlsonator to facilitate scaling?
Thanks!