The SG505 is an outstanding very low distortion state variable oscillator SVF developed by Bruce Hofer while he was at Tektronix before being a co-founder of AP. His use of the SVF inspired most of the circuitry in the THD analyzer I designed (Audio article available on my website). As described below in another post, JFET Q1620 amplifies and inverts and amplifies the error signal at the positive input to U1520. This enhances the net error signal applied to the op amp and further reduces the already low distortion of the 5534. The feedforward/feedback arrangement of R1521, R1423, pot R1510 and R1525 comprises what is often called a Baxandall volume control, in which the positive input of the op amp is usually grounded. The distortion-reduction circuit of Q1620 is just for further reducing distortion of the output buffer stage, and is not necessary if the already-low distortion of the 5534 is acceptable (good enough for more than 90% of applications). If not the right JFET is chosen, this circuit may not function correctly and actually increase distortion. You can disable this circuit and still get excellent distortion results. You can disable it by just removing the JFET from the circuit. See if doing this makes the circuit work properly. If you do so, you should probably short R1524 to keep the positive input of the op amp at a low impedance to ground, as normally done in the Baxandall volume control. Note that in general use, the Baxandall volume control provides a good approximation to a logarithmic gain vs. pot rotation using a simple linear pot over a very wide range of gain, making it excellent for use as an audio volume control.I need some help with a particular circuit used in the Tektronix SG505.
I'm currently working on a DIY rebuild of the SG505, as a fun project and learning experience.
The generator itself is working according to the specifications as far as I can tell, but the output amplifier is adding significant harmonic distortion. The amplifier uses a JET and the function of it is a mystery for me.
Can somebody out here explain that to me please?
The JFET is a Tek p/n 151-1025-00, originally an SPF3036. The recommended replacement is the 2N4416, and that can be replaced by a J111. I have tried several different JFET's in the circuit, but without significant changes. Even when I take the JFET out of it's socket, there is little change in the FFT.
Here is my blog with the project details: Blog
Here is the SG505 manual: SG505 manual
The output amplifier section is on page 63.
Below is a small section of the circuit diagram.
Many thanks in advance!
Paul
Cheers,
Bob
Thank you Bob and Alex for the insights.
Now that we understand the purpose of the JFET, the next step is to find a replacement for the 151-1025-00 that is used. Unfortunately, I cannot find any details about it, nor for the original source, the SPF3036. It would greatly help if somebody would be kind/brave enough to measure the Gate voltage and the Drain voltage in the circuit or better yet, lift that JFET from any Tek instrument and put it on a Curve Tracer, or as a minimum, measure the Pinch off voltage and the rDS(on) for starters.
My goal is to see how far I can get the original SG505 working without making any changes at this moment, so I'm still trying to get the original output amplifier to work as close to the specifications as possible, before I start to use possible improvements, or use Bob's output amplifier section. 😉
So to continue with that quest, if I may in this thread, here is what my mouse-pal Bud (an ex-LT chip designer) found out while using LTspice for that particular circuit.
Many thanks for the collective insights, it proves the value of this forum.
Paul
Now that we understand the purpose of the JFET, the next step is to find a replacement for the 151-1025-00 that is used. Unfortunately, I cannot find any details about it, nor for the original source, the SPF3036. It would greatly help if somebody would be kind/brave enough to measure the Gate voltage and the Drain voltage in the circuit or better yet, lift that JFET from any Tek instrument and put it on a Curve Tracer, or as a minimum, measure the Pinch off voltage and the rDS(on) for starters.
My goal is to see how far I can get the original SG505 working without making any changes at this moment, so I'm still trying to get the original output amplifier to work as close to the specifications as possible, before I start to use possible improvements, or use Bob's output amplifier section. 😉
So to continue with that quest, if I may in this thread, here is what my mouse-pal Bud (an ex-LT chip designer) found out while using LTspice for that particular circuit.
Now that we’ve established that you need some gain, and the amount of gain has a direct effect on the distortion reduction, you have some options regarding the JFET.
The 2N4416 generates a typical gain of 5, which is not a lot, with the component values given by the output amp schematic. The 2N44116 datasheet shows IDSS varies from 5-15mA at room temperature. The transconductance, gfs, varies from 4.5-7.5 mmho over production. You are constrained by the high IDSS causing the JFET to enter triode mode, and therefore destroy the gain. And you are constrained by the lower value of transconductance, which reduces the gain from 5 to 4. IMHO it is bad design practice to base your design on the characteristics of a single device.
So what are you looking for in an acceptable JFET substitute? First of all it must not bias in the triode region. Therefore max IDSS must not exceed the supply voltage minus the JFET threshold voltage divided by the load resistors (about 17mA). Also, you’re looking for a typical transconductance larger than 6mmho (mS?) if you want to beat the 2N4416.
Alternatively, you could change the value of the load resistors, but making them smaller will increase supply current and power dissipation. You’re already at 75mW.
We are in agreement as to the operation of the JFET, but wrong in the suggestion that the J112 is a replacement. There is no typ or max IDSS spec for the J111/J112 in the datasheets that I've seen. If IDSS>17mA, then the VDS voltage will be less than 2V (for every J112), and put the JFET in triode mode with little gain. No gain = no THD improvement. So, instead of IDSS min, you should be looking for IDSS max <20mA.
I simulated the J112 (it is available in LTspice.) The VDS voltage is 1.3V and there is less than a 2X improvement in THD. The THD improvement when using the 2N4416 is a factor of 3.6.
I went to Digikey looking for acceptable candidates. I found the LSK170B (for about $7/each.) It has a very large gain (which requires additional compensation in my LTSpice simulation circuit) and yields a 15X improvement in THD. The 2SK1069-5 has an IDSS range of 5-12mA, with a forward admittance around 11mS, which would be nearly 2X better than the 2N4416, but I can't simulate it. The 2SK1069-5 is cheaper -- only 1.41/each, but you must buy 300 minimum (so...not cheaper).
I can probably find a few more, but the $7 LSK170B is probably your best bet right now if you don't want to change many component values. I'll keep looking.
Many thanks for the collective insights, it proves the value of this forum.
Paul
Hi Paul,
I may have missed something, but what happened to the original Tek JFET? Is it still alive? If so, check its IDSS value.
While it was in the circuit, did you check its operating point, such as its in-circuit drain voltage and thus voltage drop across its load resistor? There may also be a chance that the original part was a selected JFET. IDSS and pinchoff voltage can span a large range for JFETs. In a circuit like this, IDSS is probably more important than pinchoff voltage.
Don't rule out that there is something wrong other than the JFET.
Finally, to make sure there is not a problem of some other kind in the output buffer circuit, I would still disable the circuit by operating with no JFET and see if performance is good.
Make sure that the electrolytic coupling capacitor is the drain circuit is not defective in some way.
Cheers,
Bob
I may have missed something, but what happened to the original Tek JFET? Is it still alive? If so, check its IDSS value.
While it was in the circuit, did you check its operating point, such as its in-circuit drain voltage and thus voltage drop across its load resistor? There may also be a chance that the original part was a selected JFET. IDSS and pinchoff voltage can span a large range for JFETs. In a circuit like this, IDSS is probably more important than pinchoff voltage.
Don't rule out that there is something wrong other than the JFET.
Finally, to make sure there is not a problem of some other kind in the output buffer circuit, I would still disable the circuit by operating with no JFET and see if performance is good.
Make sure that the electrolytic coupling capacitor is the drain circuit is not defective in some way.
Cheers,
Bob